rambling...no ranting, just confused rambling

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

in a response to a post, cirape said:
I view nonfunctional multiplicity as something with missing time and system members being unable to communicate and the like.

conveying in words i could not find, exactly what i have been going through...
talked w/my psychologist this week about it and he's suggesting we keep track of this and asked about letters written, emails sent, things bought, places gone w/out my forefront knowledge...
i told him this had been happening for years, but i blew it off as "forgetting" because people DO forget things from time to time...i mean, after all, don't most people talk to themselves in their head, right?
heh, it's only when my daughter tells me "you know you have a british accent, right?" and "umm, when did you forget to know how to make coffee?"
cuz that happens to everyone, right?
uh, no...
it's only been within the past 3 years that it has become more and more prevelant, which confuses and scares me to no end...people at work have said things of concern and i brush that off as having a bad day, or i'm feeling emotional or whatever comes out of my mouth that makes sense to them and they walk away - satisified w/the answer they've been given only to leave me befuddled as to just exactly what was said...

system members being unable to communicate and the like.
i read this and thought - oh yeah, well, THE LIKE part got me in the emergency ward w/about 3 stitches on one wrist and bandages on the other because apparently there is a sullen 16 yr. old boy that gets angry quite easily and then gets self destructive...most of the time it's contained and curtailed, but sometimes - well, sometimes it just happens...
i was there in the hospital all day...then i saw my psychologist that afternoon...

so he asked for copies of things that had been written and/or sent and such and i asked my friend to help me w/that because the last time i thought to do that - the paperwork got lost and my friend said,
"maybe there's someone who DOESN'T want anyone to know at all"
and i brushed it off as "forgetting"...

i've come to find that when i "go" somewhere else or however that can be explained, i get this bone-chilling cold shiver, and it's slightly numbing and not all that pleasant...usually happens when i feel stressed and/or threatened...
what happens to you when you "change"?

i've taken a break from posting in my personal journal because every time i put in the attempt, it's gone...nothing gets posted, not even jokes or pics or whatever - so i took a break...someone wrote a nice note and that was that...sometimes it bothers me, but i'm going with it for now...i've been in other communities and lj's of friends, but nothing like being here where i feel better...well, as good as i can feel...

anyhow, i don't know where i'm going w/this - but thanks for letting me ramble...

Comments

[vacillate.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what you mean. Not the exact circumstances, but...yes. Yes, I understand, and I've wanted to rant like this here before but felt...odd. I dunno.

I miss time. I don't necessarily communicate with my others. When we want to communicate, apparently we go through the fiance, who passes on messages occasionally. Journals created, posts written, people talked to, emails sent, blah blah blah, even pictures taken that I don't remember and it's scary. I was afraid to really speak up here, because so many here are very functional systems, and here I am going WTF? How do I get there?

Anyway, rambly comment to say I understand.

(Random funny about the journal that was created that I didn't know about. It used my usual password, my email, all that. So I knew it was "me", but not. So I totally stole layout ideas from myself. LOL)

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

thank you for the validation - i really appreciate it...

yeah, the time missing thing bothers me...at first i wanted to blame my friend and all the time i spend w/him and the issues we discuss and me walking away...he "talks" to them and they "respond" to him and sometimes i "remember", but most of the time i don't...
i hear my voice and the words, but for the life of me, i can't recall the conversation to save my life...
i write my friend a lot and he tells me he's gotten emails from someone who "uses" my email address and my name, but the letters are far from how i write...apparently this individual is british and is very urbane (we had to look that one up)...

and yeah - in this community people are very comfortable using the term "we this" and i'm barely able to get around using "him" and "her" and "them"...i simply applaud the folks here for their bravery and courageousness in dealing with this type of situation...

and yeah, how do I get there?, too...

[crystalseraph.livejournal.com]

Well, I am confident and comfortable because, in my experience, it was much harder being alone and walled off from the others than being connected to them.

When I was cut off, I had depression, anxiety, 'ghosting', and had wierd reactions to anything that reminded me of the others...like the reverse of the classic splitting model, almost.

Now I'm plagued by anxiety and uncertainty, but am much healthier than I was a few months ago. The fears will pass, and we are learning to work together. We are lucky in that none of us have any complications - no one here is really depressive, or has any serious issues beyond the normal life stuff, and we support each other as much as we can. All members will keep up to date on each other, and we sort out any fights/disagreements before they get out of hand. We resolved to do this from the get-go, pretty much.

I would say that communication is the first piece of learning to live together and cooperate. I think the reason we were able to get off to a good start is because we immediately started talking, writing, drawing and expressing ourselves to each other. If you are too frightened to talk to them, then in my experience, you get anxious and depressed. Writing to someone who you keep feeling and not understanding for the first time is exhilerating, imo. I remember writing to Tahl the first time, and finding that he was left-handed...he wrote pages with the off hand when I couldn't write my own name left-handed. Since then, we have conciously built connections and bridges to each other so that we can talk easily and clearly, but it has taken a lot of effort.

If you want to know how we do it, I can go into a bit. I'm a horrible analyst/academic writer, so I've kept very detailed notes on the mechanics of us building our system into what it is now. I think every person's experience is unique, but asking and talking to others about how they got working is probably a useful way to go, no matter what your goal is in the long run.

I'm on msn if you need to chat ^_^ Hopefully I'm not being too happyhappy and misuderstanding what you mean...

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

I don’t know that it’s so much being walled off from the others, but I kind of know what’s going on, but not really and it’s gone from “my” mind…yet whatever was sadi, or agreed upon - usually gets done…
Did that make sense?

Cut off? I don’t know what that means…I deal with bipolar/borderline personality disorder and I cut...i'm also a diabetic, and must take a handful of pills on a daily basis in order not become incredibly ill…I don’t know if that is a part of the “central” me, or of “someone” or “something” else…scary not knowing…what does GHOSTING means?

Apparently there is much to be said for communicating to those within…everyone has said something like that here and there…my friend has been getting emails from MY email address w/my name, and knows it is not me…
I suppose that is a form of it…could it be that “they” feel he is someone they can talk to w/out directly dealing w/me? Who knows…I won’t guess…

Thank you for the offer, at this point in time - every little bit helps…

thank you for all of this...
and friended you back...

[crystalseraph.livejournal.com]

Well, by 'walled off', I mean that I was stuck in control of the body, and able to only see and use a smallish part of the collective mind. It sounds like you might be a bit blocked off, but possibly not as much as I was.

Being 'cut off' had nothing to do with physical harm. It was just my words for describing how I couldn't feel the others. I also have a chronic illness, so I sympathise with the anxiety of that...I would think that any physical illness is affecting the body. The stress of being ill belongs to whoever is in the body at the time, I'd think. I wouldn't worry about it being 'not of you'.

'Ghosting' was what I use to describe the feelings of the others trying to contact me. I would get tactile hallucinations (hands touching hair, etc), sometimes hearing voices, or getting flashes of imagery, particularly in the dark. Just the presence of people. It was rather scarey and drove me to panic more than once.

If one of your group has been emailing your friends, then I'd say they probably do want to talk to someone. Maybe try leaving notes out for them, or starting a communal book or computer file? I agree with Gharveyn that resisting what's happening isn't really worth it. If they're there, then they're there. I had to learn that one myself. It helped a lot, for me and everyone else in the group.

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, ok…I like your term “ghosting” because I’ve been getting flashes of imagery and hearing voices…not so much a physical presence, but of being crowded in my head - no breathing room…

my friend has been great about it - really, he's kept the emails, and will say something if significant...

thanks again

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

How are you judging whether someone is a very functional system, and what are you defining as functional? I'm curious.

-Lilac

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Maybe functional means everything works the way it's supposed to? I think of being functional as meaning being able to get to the front and leave the front since that's all I'm able to think about. I can't leave the front and I don't know if I ever can or not. The group I'm with may be mostly functional because they can do it, but I'm not functional because I can't do it. :( So I'm a disfunctional individual within a mostly functional group? Though there are other problems too like depression or anxiety that some of them go through and I've experienced too. So that doesn't make things too functional. Maybe this entire group I'm with isn't functional. :( It's probably my fault too because I'm broken.

-Butterfly

[vacillate.livejournal.com]

Well, I can't say for sure if someone is a 'very functional system'. What I can guess is that they're more 'functional' than I am within this ...situation. I won't call it a disorder out of respect for those that don't think it is.

I read, and I envy those that can talk about 'us', and 'we', and 'this is what so-and-so thinks and feels', and all of that. That, to me, is functional, at least on some level. From what I gather, there are several here that don't suffer from time lapses. I do. I feel I am less functional because damnit, if I can't remember half a day, and I don't know what I did in that time lost, I don't really find that "functional". It might be for someone else, but for me it is not.

On another post, in a comment, people were talking about fragmentedminds, and I've joined there as well. I do really, really like reading this community, I just don't get the feeling that trauma based multiplicity is the norm here. That's why I don't post. I just glean wisdom from others.

Hope that answered your question. :) It's more or less a perceived functionality. I see in others what I'd like to be able to do with the Others that are with me, and I feel that if I was able to, we would be more functional.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I hope this is okay to ask, but how does a person know they are trauma based? If there were traumas that did happen to some individuals within a group does that just mean that some groups might not have come into existance because of trauma, but still had trauma happen to them?

-Butterfly

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I understand. Thank you.

-Butterfly

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Hi,

I read your handle and don't know wether you are Mr Shannibal or Mrs Hannibal.

That shivery feeling... when you 'go away'.... We usually experience a feeling similar to that with integretion of information... when suddenly something makes a great deal of sense and speaks to us on many levels or addresses many parts.

Anyway, we just wanted to share a possibly variant interpretation of that experience with you...

As for the suicidal 16 yr old... yah... We have someone like that too... they love to wreck cars... But they have a mission, a purpose, and most likely they will continue to have a valuable role in our system... So your 16 yr old may have important information to share with you or valuable skills or intuition and the suicide stuff is their way of trying to get attention for it.

We don't want to screw with your head too much... so we will keep the metaphysical and paranormal stuff at bay here, but if that stuff interests you you are welcome to peruse our blog.

Basically we have been aware of something wrong since we were about six or seven or eight... evidence coming in that we were known by people we didn't know for things we had never done... Finally hit on the multiple personality issue clearly around age 22.

My lesson for today is STOP RESISTING. Maybe you need this lesson too....

Resistance is futile, sayeth the Borg.

And they are right. The more 'I' resist the worse things get in my life. Particularly the depression. So today I am trying to live a little differently, we will see how that goes. I will post about it in another post later.

The point is that if your alters are in conflict they will wear you down. You will be at their mercy and have no idea why. You will feel blocked and impotent and out of control. At least, this is what happens with us... But from what you wrote it sounds true for you too, and is probably an operative truth for most multiples...

An operative truth doesn't have to actually be true, it is an operable truth if it enables you to make changes and helps you to act more effectively.

Anyway, it sounds like you are considering allowing yourself to open up to your alters and explore them and learn from them...

Congratulations, that's a big step.

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

Hello,
I’m mrs. Hannibal…
The shivery feeling? I’ve been told that when something has been said to me has struck me out of the blue, it’s almost the sense of “I don’t want to hear this” and I can feel myself shut down and shut off…well, that, and “don’t respond to that - too revealing an answer”…I suppose it’s to have things still kept hidden…strangest feeling…and you are so right in the when suddenly something makes a great deal of sense and speaks to us on many levels or addresses many parts. exactly…well said…

JULIAN is not so much suicidal as he is sullen, likes to drive fast (no license), and mouth off…but I see what you’re saying - a purpose for whatever reason…he’s also looking for help, but doesn’t know how to ask - and apparently he’d written a poem to my friend asking for help…amazing…I just now got that…

I shall read your blog, thank you for the invite…
Oh, gosh - I’ve know there were things wrong for a long time now…even while things were happening, THEY WERE WRONG…and yet, a lot of that was “lost” in my memory and really didn’t come to the forefront until a few years back…but not dealt with at all…not. At. All.
This “issue” came up years ago, but now it has become more and more prevalent in my every day living and the hard thing is - I’m confused about this being acceptably real or not in that I mean I still DON’T believe this…my kids and friends and coworkers tell me otherwise…I want to brush this off as imaginary, and yet…I can’t…and that is what is killing…

resistance is futile, sayeth the borg
No kidding…
I want desperately to know, and then in the same hand - this is too frightening to comprehend even w/my mind…and I can find reason for much, but this? Well, this has me flummoxed like nothing else in my life…denial would be grand if it worked - but it doesn’t because there are too many variables that say to the contrary…
I don’t know if they are conflict or not - I can’t figure that out as of yet…
Makes for interesting dinner conversation, wouldn’t you think?
And yes, more often than not - blocked, but not so much as impotent…sometimes, definitely - out of control…it’s hard when I can’t tell where I end and where they start…
does that make sense?
forgot to touch on "resisting" - yeah...more than i ought to, i think...even w/some knowledge, i still don't want to believe this...

My iI>operative truth is supposedly a british male - but I don’t know any more than that…

Thank you for all the feedback…I appreciate it…

[crystalseraph.livejournal.com]

I would think that if you can overcome your fear, and talk to the others some way, it will become much less stressful.

Good luck :3

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

i would hope to acheive that goal...
in the mean time - they pretty much talk to my friend, so i can deal w/that for now...

thanks

[liferain.livejournal.com]

I think being "functional" is based on opinion. Why is it that multiples who can't communicate directly with the others in their system are nonfunctional? I experience blackouts and can't really communicate with Vi, but we function just fine together by using things like diaries and my boyfriend and anything else to talk to each other. While I would like to be able to speak directly to her, we're still "functioning" happily.

But I know how frustrating it can be, so I know how you feel. I'm hoping you find a way to cope with it soon.

[crystalseraph.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that sort of thing is good. Just in case I was misunderstood, communication can come in any form, but I think it's crucial.

I think co-conciousness can probably be developed, if you find the right mechanisms, but I would think that would take a lot of effort. I'm not sure though. :?

[cirape.livejournal.com]

but we function just fine together by using things like diaries and my boyfriend and anything else to talk to each other.

Ah, sorry, perhaps I was being too vague? I would consider that system--if it works for your, uh, system--to be a way of communicating with each other. Thus making you not necessarily nonfunctional.
I was trying to sum things up in veryvery few words in the comment mentioned, so I'm aware that I left quite a bit of things out. Sorry if it ruffled any feathers.

And to the OP, ...glad I was able to help? ^^;

p.s.

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

almost forgot -
you say a lot of things that get to me, and i wanted to acknowledge that...

thank you...

Re: p.s.

[cirape.livejournal.com]

I do? I try to be intelligent in what I say here.
Glad I could help.

Re: p.s.

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

your efforts are greatly appreciated...

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

i'm looking for a way to cope and get some type of handle on things...difficult, at best, but you know - the attempt is there, at least for now...

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I'm not able to get away from the front for several months, but I think not knowing what's going on or feeling like you're forgetting things would be worse. :( I hope there's a way for you to figure out what's going on. Hug.

-Butterfly

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

well, i get a bit of "not knowing" and "forgetting"...

and yeah, thank you - i also hope to figure it out as well...

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Nobody has a perfect memory. Single people forget too. We know a lot of older people-- and some younger people-- who have to keep constant notes to remind themselves of everything because their memory isn't very good.

Some systems who do lose time communicate by leaving notes for each other. Some systems who don't lose time communicate by leaving notes for each other. In both cases, it's still a form of communication, and therefore responsible. If you have no communication system at all, not even notes/letters or one person who remembers things others don't, then that is a problem. A communication system does not have to include sharing of all memories. But there should be something.

-Lilac

[cirape.livejournal.com]

I think the OP said that they were unable to use notes at this time?

[crystalseraph.livejournal.com]

Exactly. We are very co-conscious, and chat all the time, but we still leave notes. Tahl and I have a running discussion journal when we need to make sure we are understood correctly, or to remind each other of things.

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

can't do the notes thing - they either never get sent, or get deleted or whatever...just doesn't happen this time around...tho' it's a great idea...
it seems the person that many feel comfortable talking to is my friend...whether it's verbally (in person), or thru emails...
every once in a blue moon i will hear something about someone and not want to be caught in the middle of conversation - but there i am...sending messages via some kind of megatron score board in my head to whomever...

[rhymer-713.livejournal.com]

We offer comfort. We don't lose tim at all. But we do have a crappy memory. So if you need us we're on Yahoo! or if you have a question or just need some one to talk to you can leave us a comment in our journal or friend us or whatever. We don't mind making friends .
L.

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

thank you - i appreciate the "comfort"...
i have no idea where to go with this...and yes, by all means, let's do the "friending" thing...

:)

[rhymer-713.livejournal.com]

Good since we do share some other things in common. We're type II diabetic so we can understand what you go through with that. Also we like some of the same actors/musicians.

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

thanks - i did the "friending thing" -

just to let you know, i haven't posted in days, as i'm taking a break from my own lj to try and wrap my head aroudn this whole thing...

[rhymer-713.livejournal.com]

::Nod:: We'll add you back in just a sec. Maybe reading our LJ will help some although we've not posted so much either. Good luck! Wrapping your head around something is always hard. If you need us or have any particular question about any thing we say or just if you have questions in general we don't mind if people leave a crapload of comments so comment away if you like to do that kind of thing.

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

oh, i have shit-load of questions, and things to say and things to tell - but when i go to put them on paper, or post them or try to email them to my friend -
nothing...
the page remains blank and i get this cold shiver, and this derealization feeling and all thought ceases and i wind up doing something else...
my friend says it's a defence mechanism from them wanting to stay hidden and simply go back to functioning as the shell of "me" and no one the wiser as the what is really going...i told him i'm tired of it and he's been working w/me on that...
he listens and "someone" or "someones" seem to talk to him - but i never know what's said, written to him...
he says it's a work in progress...
and i'm still frustrated...

[rhymer-713.livejournal.com]

We have a suggestion. Perhaps it'd help you. We What'd happen if you just spoke out loud to them? Or in your mind? if you live alone you can do it aloud. If you're not alone in your house then think what you want to say. They're probably as terrified as you were. We can understand that. Also, leaving brief notes out that you're afraid and that you don't intend to hurt them might help. We've been multiple all our life but communications weren't always so wonderful so we understand you completely in that area. And maybe eventually you, them and your friend can work on something to take away the cold shivers. Good luck and we're all here if you need us.
Rayvin

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

oh, i do put in the attempt to "talk" to them in my head, but it's more like them talking to ME into being quiet and letting them take over because whatever is going on is too emotionally overwhelming for me to handle at the moment...
even w/sex...
hell, i LOVE sex -
but my friend tells me that "someone" requested or wanted or said this and that and had a great time doing whatever was suggested and i don't wind up remembering sometimes until days later...
makes for an interesting "Remembered" moment, let me tell you...

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

We know several groups which are 'functional' (man I hate that word) in the sense that they are getting stuff done, activities of daily living and all that, and they have no co-consciousness at all. They use notes and lists and calendars and whiteboards instead. They know the other people are there, but they have no idea, say, when Mary comes up front what Sam has just been doing unless he leaves a note.

So lack of communication/ co-consciousness/ memory / time loss does not = nonfunctionality the way we see it. Although it can be a problem if the group doesn't have sufficient coping strategies (yich, I'm starting to dislike that expression too) in place.

We have known several groups where a frontrunner didn't want to or was afraid to acknowledge the others, some of them would do somewhat drastic things in order to bring frontrunner's attention to the fact that they existed and were people. But in other groups, they seemed afraid that the frontrunner would discover them, and were removing as much evidence of their presence as possible. In one group one girl who was desperate to consider herself the sole resident of the body would burn her diaries as fast as she wrote them, part of the reason being that "there is handwriting here that is not mine, and that is not allowed." Could something like that be part of it?

You may find these helpful, from the memory archive of this community: (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity)
switching (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=switching&filter=all)
discovery (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=discovery&filter=all)
co-conscious (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=co-conscious&filter=all)

[cirape.livejournal.com]

So lack of communication/ co-consciousness/ memory / time loss does not = nonfunctionality the way we see it.

What would be non-functionality, then?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I think it could be anything that someone wants to be better at. Everyone has different problems to work on. Communication might not be any problem for one group and to them a bad communication could be non functional if they see it in someone else. But that same group could have a problem with anger at each over something and another group might see that as being non functional. It could also I think mean something outside of a group like not being able to speak with anyone or not being able to leave the house, but people who aren't plural have things like that to deal with too. I guess I'm really saying that I don't think there's a single one answer because it is probably a personal issue that every group would decide for themselves. I hope I made some sense.

-Butterfly

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Well, like I said, if being functional is being able to get tasks of daily living done, being non-functional would be like decompensating. It'd be different for each person, but we think of functionality as roughly things like taking care of one's health, getting work or schoolwork done, getting the bills paid (or working things out with creditors if the $ isn't there), cleaning house, anything like that, then non-functional would be inability to do those things for one reason or another. It can vary from one day to the next.

It need not be a mental problem, right now the way our back is we have a lot of trouble doing housework and feel non-functional on that, but functioning okay as far as other things like our work (self-employed) or making appointments, getting sethrenn to school in the morning and so on.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry your back is hurting you. :(

-Butterfly

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Ow. Thanks. Me too. Chiropractic can only do so much. :p

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

"functional" :p can also be a question of having the right tools for the job don't forget. can't sweep the floor without a broom, that sort of thing...

[rhymer-713.livejournal.com]

::Nod:: That last description sounds like us. Only it was, in our case, a fear from every one else of primary front's discovering them. So they all tried not to be known. But things are working better now obviously. :-)Alexa

[mrshannibal.livejournal.com]

That sounds familiar in that my stuff gets done and usually it’s “me” that’s doing it, but when there is an over-load of stress, questions asked, being put in situtations or sometimes just out of the blue – then “someone” else takes over, or perhaps many “someone” elses “appear” and things get done…sometimes I am “aware” and sometimes I am not…some people/friends/co-workers notice a change OF me, and still some do not…I don’t know how else to explain this…

coping strategies?
Wow – I don’t even know what that is…well, no…I take that back…I kind of know what that is…I I know I get a lot of “just sit down and take it easy, let me do this” and then I get a sleepy feeling and then whatever happens, happens…

“handwriting that is not mine” – well, I’m not sure on this one, either…my friend gets letters from my email address under my name and the sentence structure, grammar and text are not how I write at all…he tells me the writing is “urbane”…yeah, well, I can write like that if I so choose, but it would take a great deal of effort on my part to continue that for a long period of time…this is how I write…lower case, lots of ellipses, and very little structure…poems have been written and sent to him, as well as other emails…I see the words as they are being typed, but ask me the next minute what it said, and I won’t know what you are talking about…dissociative? Who knows? Just really confusing…

Thanks for your feedback…