(no subject)

[linnai.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Bit of a controversial question perhaps.

What does anyone know about integration? NOT the forced "everyone needs to be one" sort of integration but spontaneous, natural integration and also temporary intregration or anything of the like.

(While I have heard that most integration is non-permanent anyhow, this isn't quite what I mean but having a hard time figuring out how to communicate the thought better, forgive me)

Comments

[azraile.livejournal.com]

Can't say i realy know much.....


just kitsu speaks of a sorta spirtual intigration..... one soul about a few conchances making it up

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

I'm more likely to believe a story of spontaneous integration than one which was forced by a doctor or other third party. I've heard of, though never known personally, a very few systems who said they integrated spontaneously and it stuck.

We've also known systems who could temporarily integrate at will if they had to. I think we did that ourselves earlier in life, although it was not pleasant. Perhaps for some groups it can be part of a natural process or cycle-- I think it wasn't natural for us, which is why it was unpleasant and people started to try to break out after a while.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

We're sorting out a lot of... unclearness for us in the last few weeks and it would seem that we had a similar experience. It wasn't natural, it was very unpleasant and it didn't last....

But it wasn't doctor aided...

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

I think that sometimes, we (speaking for our group) have to fight against the tendency to believe that it would "just be easier" if we were one person, that others would be more accepting of us, even the idea that we ought to be that way solely because "it's more normal." Sometimes we have to fight the tendency to try to squish down or repress others, although we're not nearly as bad about that now as we once were.

During the times when we temporarily integrated, it wasn't doctor-assisted either. Things written in offline diaries during one of those incidents say that we felt we "needed to find out which one was the real me." What always happened was that it would hold together for about six months and then things would start to fall apart. We never kept everyone's individual abilities and talents; in fact, we'd inevitably end up losing most of them. (Other temporarily integrated systems have reported similar things.)

[linnai.livejournal.com]

I think... I understand that...

Wow... thinking about this really hits a nerve...

[redrainstorm.livejournal.com]

We have 'natural' integrations all the time. But, whenever it happens there seems to be more that come forward after, or, the people didn't really 'integrated', but left the front for a while. :)

[linnai.livejournal.com]

Would you be willing to give us any further information about the natural integrations thing? Is it just... one person 'merging' with another or is it like the blendy thing or...?

[redrainstorm.livejournal.com]

Sometimes people just decide they don't feel like a "full person" anymore, like they've lost a part of themselves, and wish to blend in with another person.
Sometimes it's 1 person going into 1 person, sometimes it's 5 going into 1. It's a very mutual thing where they "blend" by agreeing with a person/s that they want to join their body.
Later they may decide to split again because they feel like they're ok and are back to their normal selves so they gain their body back.
I hope this makes sense, I'm so tired after work all day.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

(Don't apologize! It's very helpful! Thank you for just responding!)

That makes a lot of sense actually. We've been trying to figure some things out and it just has been confounding us completely, honestly!

[little-heather.livejournal.com]

Do they ever just "disappear"? Because I've been told thats what happened here with spontaneous integrations...they just left completely. (I suppose its possible they merged into someone and no one knew it, because a lot of it never sticks).

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

But did they all integrate into one person, or did they leave? Big difference!

There used to be someone on this community who anytime someone could no longer feel or sense the others, anytime they seem to have disappeared, would post something to the effect of "sounds like you've integrated," and not to feel bad because "the others are still there, they're you." I always felt this was jumping to conclusions to say the least. I don't doubt there are spontaneous integrations, but the temporary vanishing act kind of thing, or a communications glitch, or the gate getting jammed in a gateway system, seems to happen a lot more often than spontaneous integration.

[maryanni.livejournal.com]

Can't get too specific on this but on the "leaving" subject. . .we know someone who had brain trauma and a medical condition and their others (other than 2 of them) just disappeared and never came back. Didn't seem like they integrated, they just disappeared. It happened after they were exposed to a chemical of some kind.

So I think it can happen. We've had some who left but always they came back.

Not very coherent right now.

[submissives.livejournal.com]

Thats part of it for people here too I think....not feeling like or being a "full person" anymore. I just wrote a massive reply(accidentally lol) down below but ya I forgot to mention that part is true here too.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

I'm really hoping that "spontaneous" integration reverses, because I without knowing--or one of the others--freaked out at some point and...somehow...put everyone else to sleep. And I don't think I--even now--have all the tools to be an independent human being. So I'm thinking integration can happen...or sedation...but I'm also hoping it can be reversed.

If that bit of blather helps at all. :)

[linnai.livejournal.com]

To reassure you, Sethrenn up farther and we have both experienced something that seems to have been spontaneous integration and we're all seperate again for the most part, but it made it a lot easier (and slightly more disconcerting) to just sort of blur together when things get stressful...

I hope that things work out for you, but glad you are here in this community as it's a good place to get support when things are hard to understand, too.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

Very true. And here's the other thing--I've been under quite serious stress for at least three years straight, and before that, I had a patch--when the 'integration' happened--that lasted from around age 19, 20, to age 23. So...if I ever get free of stress...I may become more we. :)

It's something, anyway.

[chaos-self.livejournal.com]

hmm... so its like... when you experience stress and trauma, you are more like a singlet? Maybe someone should make a movie about *that*.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

I guess...I have no idea. Unlike many systems here, I never had co-conscious awareness, as far as I knew. My awareness of being multiple came years after I--or someone--had found a way to sedate the others. Now I'm trying to wake everyone up again, because a) it feels empty in here and b) I don't think it's normal, or fair, that I get to be the only one walking around.

But, see, it took a lot of thought and angst and figuring out of things to get there, and when everyone got sleepy, I was--someone was--just plainly freaking out completely.

It's a strange thing. I think even for the multiple community.

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

We had that happen to us. Chris, or a previous incarnation of her, was the only one left out. Apparently for a week or so she was just completely emotionless, it completely freaked out her friends. We started returning about three or four months later.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

So maybe we're just slow...as usual. :)

We're moving up on six...maybe eight years, now.

Integration vs. becoming dormant

[silence1986.livejournal.com]

I've had it many times that insiders just became dormant or inactive, like when their abilities weren't needed or when I thought these abilities were "mine".. or is that different? I wonder if there's a difference between integration and getting inactive. After all, integration doesn't necessarily mean that the "host" (if you have one) integrates the other person, and maybe some persons in a system have similar qualities so it could seem they'd merged while one had just become less active. I btw was never forced to integrate or whatever - not even sure if I'm truly plural.

Re: Integration vs. becoming dormant

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

The problem with the things you brought up is that the doctors themselves have never been able to agree on what is integration.

Likewise, "truly plural" is subjective. You& are the only ones who can decide that, and remember that it may be fluid like sexuality and change throughout your lifetime. Did you see the circle idea on our glossary?
http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/glossary.html#median

Our idea was that a person / group might shift around to any point on that circle at any time in their life.

Re: Integration vs. becoming dormant

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hi This is Elaine and we have experienced three kinds of Integration and none of them seem to hold. Two were forced and one was due too sickness and sedation . For me being a observer it feels very unpleasent ,like some parts of myself are missing .

Even though I always felt seperate, now that so many are missing, I feel lost too, but I really believe unless everyone is agreeed it cannot happen for good it will come apart eventually . This is what is happening here .

More like a home comming feeling , like the house is full again .

Just my humble opinion
thx Elaine

Re: Integration vs. becoming dormant

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

The definition has been stretched a lot. Colin Ross (Colon Rots) says it's "the moment when the alters can be said to have ceded their separateness," but there's no word on what constitutes ceding one's separateness.

I think part of it was that doctors working with multiples must have realised eventually (the smart ones, at least) that the kind of integration promoted by people like Prince and Wilbur didn't work for most groups, including some who had originated by splitting. However, their supervisors wanted to hear that the clients were being integrated, or working on it, and so in practice it was stretched to include various forms of co-consciousness, communication, or temporarily joining together.

Re: Integration vs. becoming dormant

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

Colon Rots

lol

Colon Rots

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Seen this?
http://www.astraeasweb.net/story/rots.html
http://scripts.cgispy.com/story/story.cgi?user=bluejay

[calliopeaurora.livejournal.com]

I'm stuck alone out front at the moment. I've been stressed lately and everyone else seems to have *disappeared*. This has happened before but its still disconcerting.

My T is a believer of everyone communicating to be healthy while his partner is a believer of integration at will, meaning he *teaches* how to control others. I don't know much about it but it doesn't sound fun to be controlled and lose my opinion.

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Just my humble opinion . Please what do you mean when you say *teaches * like the T will teach you? I would be cautious after what I know now about allowing a T to * guide* me ir * teach * me how to all get together . Just keep communicating and dont allow anyone to have control over you . Tnx Blessings Elaine ( Teens our the World)

[calliopeaurora.livejournal.com]

These Therapists I speak of are work-place trauma therapists and often discover peoples multiplicity after inconsistencies and other things that are mentioned.
By teaches I don't mean tells/controls, they guide and quite often are more like a sounding board and someone to calm down a person if they become distressed. They encourage no-dependency on themselves and as I didn't mention before and probably should have, they teach/encourage self-soothing and self-support. No progress is started until a person is able to want to do it for themselves and is strong enough. (I'm not sure strong is the word I'm after)
Teaches was a poor word to explain controlling others as I mean it to be that he teaches EQ (emotional intelligence) and as most multiples that he sees are trauma-based, he speaks of how to know what is appropriate and how to communicate so the more strong-willed persons don't bull-doze the situation or other people.
Quite often these multiples have survived to this point on their own and only need fine-tweaking in communication and co-consciousness and not rejecting their others (my word for my people).
Sorry if I was a little unclear, I'm a little frazzled at the moment.
Sora

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hi, just one more thing to be very careful of . I have heard of centers or units that are trauma based for multiples that work with multiples in whats caled re- birthing , when you said self- soothing it sounded eerily familiar . there is a popular center that runs in Vermont and one in Carolina for multiple units onlt to encourage Integration . They say it is not Dr assisted because you admitt yourself to facilitae Integration

Just be careful . If the goal is integration I will say again all ( every single fiber of everyone of you have to really want it) or it will not work for long and mess up communication till things get back to normal or whatever your normal is as everyones is differnt.
Thx Elaine, House of Mosaic Gang

[calliopeaurora.livejournal.com]

I personally have no intention of integration and have been a healthy and somewhat co-operative multiple (although trauma-based) for a few years (some of which I was unaware of multiplicity for).

From what I know of re-birthing, self-soothing is very different. However, I am not sure we are talking about the same self-soothing here. Self-soothing in the context I have used it means to soothe oneself (or many) through means of the skills within ourselves and the things we know will calm us. Say if one of your group was distressed by something and you knew that their favourite stuffed toy always made them smile and cheer them up it would be helping them to get the toy and use it to calm them. It works with favourite smells and memories as well. Sometimes it's not a simple as I've explained though.

I also think that America and Australia are two very different health systems as multiplicity isn't well known and considered (although not true) very rare and is only heard of if it is in an ill-representing movie.

Sora

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebirthing
(this, of course, is nothing like traditional rebirthing ceremonies, which are largely initiatory in character)

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Doesn't sound like fun to me, either. Operating system changes or maintenance as voluntary coping strategies is one thing. Picking out one person in the group and teaching them how to control the others sounds nonproductive to say the least.

You have my sympathies. If I had a nickel for every time I was stuck alone out front...

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

we're mad here too! lol

[calliopeaurora.livejournal.com]

I love your icon! lol
So mad!

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

*adores your icon*

sorry for the length

[submissives.livejournal.com]

The timing of your post is ironically appropriate for us. This is a hard thing for us to talk about because we are in the process of possibly going through it once again and trying to figure out exactly what is causing these "spontaneous integrations" to keep happening over and over again.

The first time it happened was 3 or 4 years ago and we called it a spiritual spontaneous integration. It happened on its own after seeing a therapist who believed in "divine intervention" from spirit guides and such. She however had nothing to do with the first time it happened we were at home and one night it just started happening on its own. The second spontaneous integration wasnt quite as spontaneous as it happened in her office (supposedly guided by her spirit guide) but the ones who left were only those who chose to leave at that time. For the most part both of those held, with a few exceptions(a few came back out of the hundred plus that left).

Since then we have had it happen a few more times spontaneously(we are no longer in any therapy and do not believe the last few times have been spiritual at all). We dont get the same good feelings we had with the first couple times. Afterwards we do feel a sense of relief but also a tremendous sense of loss. Also the last 2 or 3 times this has happened it hasnt stuck and they either all came back or new people came.

This is now not only affecting us but the system we are partnered with as well. We dont want to keep hurting them through losing their friends in our system. The fact that these integrations keep happening over and over ....we want to know why and how to stop it. sj has a theory that if the ones who are "suppose to go" would just go and not come back then it will stop. The problem is she says that every time. At this point she just wants them to go I think and whoever is left is left.

One question, do you think that the host/core whatever if you have one has any affect on or control over this? Even if it is subconsciously? This is about to happen again here unless we find a way to stop it. Some of us have felt it coming for a couple weeks now but we never know when its actually going to happen. And as little_heather said above, people here just seem to disappear completely when it happens.

Ok Im going to stop because this is much longer than I intended for it to be. I dont know if any of this helps at all but at least you know your not alone.

abbylauren

Personal Integration

[idianshire.livejournal.com]

I personally had what I considered MPD/DID. I did work really hard on integrating, for me it was about becoming whole, the others of mine were never fully independent. It was really hard work, but the harder work happened when we all became the new me. I would write more about it, but we are exhausted as we have just had the first day of our job. If you want to know more I could write maybe tomorrow, or privately.

Just to be clear, this wasn't the integration of the Shire, but rather something that happened to me personally

Olivia

[ridetothesea.livejournal.com]

We don't have full group integration, but we do have two people that will integrate. They stay fairly blended together (sharing thoughts and stuff) most of the time, but sometimes they can go way past that, until they form one different person. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. And it's weird, too. Sometimes they can control it, sometimes not, and they've never had any troubles separating.

_Rose

[nat-leia.livejournal.com]

Some of us have diminished and yet others integrated. Though not big groups- out of hundreds individuals just small groups about 3-5 people occassionally. It was needed for others of us to function better sometimes, just a group decision to help the individual from another group of personas that didn't feel so nice being around pool of multiple memories, if that makes sense. So it was more so of an uniting than integrating, but when those some of us were united for long enough (months), they stood that way, as an one. It wasn't problematic for them- for those who were having issues, they split up again.

But actually, there are those who prefer to have more people around (as Nat does) and who feel unhappy without them, those who are very nurturing to us... so we offer the chances. You have to be kind to yourself, don't you? At least that's what I've been taught.

We are better as a whole and as a system. We can stuck down to being minimum people, or sometimes even just one personality, but that is forcing some of us. We don't like forcing someone to do something- without exception that works for inner and outer lives, too.
we don't envy the singlets in this way. I mean, don't they feel alone?

*shutting up*
Roy