a bit of a desperate situation

[1000-voices.livejournal.com]

This is a bit lengthy, and we need help with a serious situation, one where we need to figure out how to keep someone from killing. I am not joking.

x-posted

Last night there was a long discussion between Josh and I, one of the men I love. A lot of things were brought to light and at the end, so much had been building inside, that I finally broke down in tears. This opened the doorway. The doorway which Armand rushed through.
Let me give you some background on Armand. He tolerated Josh at the beginning because he though that this man was one of my flings. He never thought he'd be around this long, much less that I would end up in love with him. When that became obvious, Armand (to make a very long story short), in a very devious fashion came out at one of the most inopportune times and threatened Josh. I knew that Armand hated him, Josh knew this too. And even though we were aware of this and I had become aware that if anyone in my system were to kill, it wasn't Blade like we all first suspected (who would have been capable perhaps in her younger days but her role has changed now).... the one to kill would be Armand.
I cannot express how very serious this is.
Currently, my arms are bruised severly, my legs as well. My throat still feels the remnants of force.
Last night, Armand came out.
Last night Armand tried to kill Josh.
Damion has wrestled with alters before, those trying to harm the body, or those just freaking out, sometimes striking out against him. But never has one tried to maliciously harm him, nor kill him. None have placed a hand on his throat. None did what Armand did last night.
I know how hard that was for Josh to do, fight with a woman that looks like his girlfriend but is instead the jealous raging alter of Armand. He feels awful for what he did to me, but he had too, some you know this, if he didn't, I'd be in jail right now.
He would have killed him.
I don't know what to do. We're terrified. So much more happened.
I just wondering, does anyone out there have any advice? Anything to help get Armand in control. Besides the obvious reasons of why killing would be a bad idea, we would be the first to be questioned and well, we have a record. Everything is on file.
I'm concerned about Josh's safety right now. We've taken the obvious precautions, as in the weapons we're usually armed with have been removed, although I don't really like taking away even just my knife because of personal safety. I don't want to take chances.
For a bit of background, talking to Armand doesn't work well at all. It was recently revealed that Armand is not just protective of me, but in love with me as well. He's jealous of Josh, no doubt, but promised Josh if ever he harmed me in anyway he would make him pay. I need to find ways to protect Josh. I really don't want to lose him.

Comments

[thebahboo.livejournal.com]

Well, first things first. You need to make certain that the body is nowhere near Josh. Total avoidence. Don't freak, it's temporary, we just have to ensure his safety and your continued freedom until we get this under control.

Are you under treatment anywhere, with anyone? If so, your therapist needs to know what is happening. There are drugs that can be helpful in situations like these, and if all else fails observation is not always the worst option.

Internally, are there enough others to gang up on Armand from inside if need be? I have a few people locked in cages withen my system, it had to be done. In fact, there is a court order that I have to keep one from surfacing.

How much control do you have over your internal landscape? Is there a switchboard operator, someone who can try to keep him from taking the spot?

You need help here, inside and out. What does Damian have to say here? Is he onboard for a long struggle here?

Us

[dreamingkat.livejournal.com]

I know this may sounds harsh, but *shrugs*
If you (collectively) cannot control a dangerous person from the inside, you need to enlist outside help. And at times that help involves checking yourself into the place with the nice white padded rooms (ok, so I have yet to actually see the padded rooms in the mental hospital, but you get the idea). Being in a mental hospital is annoying enough that the threat of it can keep some "rouges" in line once it's been experienced once or twice. and most of the time you don't need to tell them exactly why you are checking yourself in if you don't want to. You can tell them that you feeling suicidal - I think it's a mandatory 3 days of lockup in that case though - the antidepressants have a tendency to keep me from shifting for some reason. The also keep me from feeling anything at all, so I hate them. But sometimes all you need is a bit of a cooling off time, and being confined in the hospital guarantees you won't be able to hurt anyone. (I used to think that if I got really upset, no number of people could restrain me - then I saw the staff at one mental hospital bring down a huge fellow who obviously knew what he was doing in a fight. Those people are scary - and they probably would be w/o the syringes too).

You can go into any police station and tell them your suicidal and they are required to take you to the nearest mental health facility. And most public clinics are too understaffed to notice if your lying to them. So you can probably get away with any old "crazy" excuse - just make sure that you check yourself in voluntarily. A vol going in can check themselves out - with the exception of some states having a 3 day minimum for suicide cases. If someone else checks you in, you have to go to court or get the doctor to kick you out. actually, if it's a state hospital, they'll probably kick you out anyway - they can't afford to keep you in there if your not an immediate danger to yourself or others. That's the trick, you need to convince them that you need help but your not a danger, or you have trouble getting out. I would recommend telling them that Armand was threatening to kill your host body, not Josh, at least until you get a therapist you can trust. And I do suggest trying to get a therapist who can help Armand w/ his temper or possessiveness or whatever his issue is.

If you are looking for advice on how to control Armand internally - you can try good old fashioned female manipulation - "I really won't ever love you if you hurt Josh". You can try getting everyone to band together and lock him up so he can't ever take front again.

I also think you should let Josh know that you don't want him to get hurt and not see him until you get the situation under control.

The problem is not that Josh needs to be protected. The problem is that Armand needs behavior modification - or baring that he needs to be stuck in solitary confinement.

Also, one of the men you love? If the other men are external and they all get along well, can Josh call on them to help him restrain you if/when Armand comes out?

sorry this is all rambling - we haven't eaten and are rather scattered. I better go get food, actually... good luck...

[moonfroggy.livejournal.com]

i agree with what others have said, if somone in your system might harm somone, or cause death then you need help from someone outside, your therapist needs to know, and being in a hospital might be the best and safest thing for you and your boyfriend

interesting thread

[sexylittleone.livejournal.com]

We have cells for those like Armand.

We've used them and well...some have since died and others have integrated. The reasons are unimportant...

one we had to hunt & killed him. it wasn't pleasant but had to be done. most learned to not come out, but hunted inside instead unfortunately... so we locked some of them up as best we could.

I don't know if that helps but that is how we handled it.

El

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Whatever you decide to do, it is necessary for Armand to be prevented from further assaulting or doing harm to anyone. You said you already have a record of being in trouble with the law; you don't want more of that. Multiple-personality defenses never did carry much weight in court, and now they're generally regarded with ridicule.

[leathersammie.livejournal.com]

It is really essential that Josh not stay with you till Armand has retreated again. I would suggest that he stay elsewhere, or you check in to the hospital. I believe once Josh is out of the picture for the moment, Armand will retreat. Once he has retreated from the control position, other alters should be able to sequester him where he can do no more harm.

Wanted To Comment

[gia1977.livejournal.com]

I wanted to comment here. I am unable to respond to the main post as I'm not sure how to help at all, but I did agree with a few things that Dreamingkat stated. The hospital is one option, meds are another, but I strongly agree on trying to control Armand's temper or possessiveness. I'm not sure what the issues is either.

I can only speak for myself. I had a bad situation Monday. My inner Victoria was "taken" and not nicely either, by Shannon's inner Grunt. (Name says it all, caveman style?) I've not told anyone that this happened, with the exception of a friend of mine who is integrated. (I only told her and this group.) My friend said that what happened was sounded like a power struggle going on inside. I am okay given I know that Shannon didn't do it purposely. He wasn't even aware of what he had done until I calmly/cautiously questioned him. Shannon's other inner crew did lock up Grunt, but we all fear Grunt may break the cage. Otherwise, we are all doing okay just trying to get past this inner struggle that shows on the outside. **HUGS** I feel for you 1000 Voices, as I can understand a small bit of the pain that goes on.

Re: Wanted To Comment

[1000-voices.livejournal.com]

It's all so surreal some days, isn't it? How we can sit and see the outside world, watch it all fall apart inside, and feel so very lost and helpless and at the same time.... all knowing.

*shakes head*

I'm not making any sense. I'm sorry. I don't know what to say anymore, what to do. Lock up isn't really an option for us right now, our sense of duty is too strong, right now, Laney is preparing us for work, she's strong although not as much as Armand but she's the one that kept me at the same job for six years now, putting on the smile and taking us to work, careful to keep everyone at bay, careful to never let anyone at work know, careful to make sure we do exactly what we need to do, get us home after the workday, where we can break down, collaspe on the kitchen floor, crying, holding onto the dog and praying for this all to end.

Re: Wanted To Comment

[pengke.livejournal.com]

What about your duty and responsibility to Josh? Shouldn't that be more important than work?

If you don't go into lock up or do everything in your power to stop Armand and Josh gets hurt because of it, then all of you will be guilty because you didn't prevent it.

Re: Wanted To Comment

[1000-voices.livejournal.com]

We are taking our responsibility for Josh and his safety. If I let us go into lock up now, there are more dangers presented to us. A promise has been made, by Josh, by Damion and by us, we don't go into the asulym anymore. There are long involved reasons for this that I will not go into.

I'm handling this, I'm getting us to work (in a reasonable timely fashion) so that we can pay this mortgage, our bills, our car payment. Josh is safe and protected because a) we've been stripped of all weapons and b) we are no where near him. Last night was spent in serious reflection and discussion with those close to us. This morning, more discussion and more thinking. A lot has been decided.

Currently Armand is calm, currently Armand has stepped down, and has become silent. I will not allow us near Josh until a) I'm positive there is no threat or b) there is more than one person to restrain us. Although, through my dealings with Armand, and with Josh, it does appear Josh can handle his own (looking at these bruises on the body) and that Armand will never fight/attack at Josh's disadvantage, he's a man that fights fair and would only kill if looking into the other's eyes.

But once again, at the moment there is no threat.

-Laney

Surreal It Is!

[gia1977.livejournal.com]

Surreal yes! By the way, Victoria here! Totally surreal! Wanting to tell people, but cannot because they just don't understand. Outside the community, I mean! I'm only out mainly school work and little things. You said it best, "Sit and see the outside world, watch it all fall apart inside, and feel so very lost and helpless and at the same time.... all knowing." I've said that so much over the years. No one ever understood that logic, but it's true!

Okay, you made sense, don't worry. Trust me when I say a lot of people do understand and share the sentiments, even if its on their own levels. Also, don't apologize for your feelings. They are yours. If people don't understand (which they do) they will ask so they can understand. We want to help somehow, even if it's just by listening. I can understand how lock up isn't an option for you. I don't like lock up. I went in overnight voluntary and I went AMA the next day. I wasn't solving anything inside, when I needed to tackle the outside stuff. (Abusive marriage) Since you feel a good strong sense of duty, then do your best to do what you need to do but stay safe. Treat yourself gently right now. Also, please drink a bit more water than usual, if you don't already. I'm not sure how your eating or sleeping is going, so be gentle with yourself. Since you mention Laney, maybe tell Laney thank you, if you haven't already. It is good to have someone in the crew that can help us out that way. I can understand how you describe Laney, as a lot of my inner crew is the same way. I do understand so well the breaking down and crying, plus holding onto the dog for comfort while praying. I've done that many times too.
**Hugs** Feel free to email me or post in my journal, if you wish to speak with me at anytime. (That goes for anyone who thinks I can help them, even if just by listening!)

[shandra.livejournal.com]

I agree with what everyone else said in essence: your first responsibility is to prevent murder, whatever that takes. Some time apart seems like a really good idea.

Having said that, it seems to me that Armand is in a very difficult spot. Note that I do not find murder or physical violence to be at all an acceptable solution. But regardless, I feel for him. I wonder what support can be given to Armand for him to work through this in a /safe/ way for everyone involved.

Shandra

[defleshed.livejournal.com]

We have One within who used to surface and attack The Brother everytime We were in The Brother's presence. We considered him the epitome' of the (boy's) repressed rage from years of abuse and trauma.

Strangely enough, it was the (boy) (Our 'Host') whom -with the help of his therapist- eventually curbed the One We call Rage, and His violence.

We took over then and now strive to keep Rage in check when in the presence of The Brother or any other threatening situation.

Unless you can trust completely that Armand will not surface again to attack your loved one, it may be wise to take other precautions and enlist outside help, as others have suggested.

--Brian [of the Ghostwalkers]