Waking Dream - Resistance is Futile

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

We woke up this morning in a dreaming state and we are trying to remain that way today.

 

The lovely thing about this current state of dreaming while being awake is that we are more aware of each other within our system and can touch and feel each other.  So yes, let's continue dreaming, it feels good.

 

By waking-dreaming we are all more equal.  We all do a lot of dreaming anyway, because most of us never get to front.  So we get frustrated and try to pull the front down to get through.  We do a lot of damage that way. 

 

The front has to collapse eventually, but the break-downs can be very serious affairs and we can't afford to return to the mental hospital again.  We already lost our family.  We might still lose our job.  If we went back in the hospital we would certainly lose our current job assignment and this job assignment is a good one.  We can't afford to lose it because it enables us to do more with our life than we could do in a different assignment.  Most assignments involve too much commuting time.  This one is not too bad.

 

We have known we were heading into another breakdown for a while now and we were resisting it like hell.

 

But resistance is futile (sayeth the Borg) and the more we resist the more depressed and incapacitated we become.

 

Breakdowns, on the other hand are enabling experiences.  After a breakdown we try new things and have the potential to make new friends and so forth.  So breakdowns are actually good, it's just that whoever is in front is gonna lose control.  And they always perceive that as bad.

 

But really, they are not in control at all, because if they were in control the rest of us would not have the power we have to bring them down.

 

Control is an illusion.

 

But its a deeply longed for illusion that most of us try to create and perpetuate.

 

So now it is time to be out of control... hehehe...

 

Actually, the idea here is to stop creating more new egos... We have enough of ourselves already.

 

In the past we created new egos whenever an old ego was incapable of carrying on... So we wound up with lots of alter-egos... and while we could sometimes swap out or switch egos, we were constantly creating new egos too...

 

The new egos draw from our pool of talents and personality traits and become a new individual front.  They are partial integrations of our collective identity.  But they are not the sum of whom we are; they are just another subset identity.  And each new ego has weaknesses, areas they can't cope with well; which means we are always crippled in some manner.

 

So now we want to experiment with trying to have no central or core ego, no front.

 

We are pulled in many, many directions at the moment, and this seems to be the reason why we wind up with new egos. 

 

The new ego is a vector result of all the forces within us that are moving in different directions.  It is a way of balancing the internal tides or 'tug of wars'.  But it adopts an authoritarian 'control' personality and then takes off on its own independently of our aggregate being.  It develops its own 'safe' mode of being and tries to maintain that mode of being, but it becomes too inflexible and eventually breaks down because it is not sufficiently adaptive to be able to manage all of our needs and issues.

 

So as hard as this is, we want to try to avoid becoming any more new personalities.  Creating new personalities is as easy as slipping on a new pair of shoes.  It happens spontaneously all the time.  But most of those personalities are situational vectors and exist only in the context in which they are created and then they go away and may never reappear.

 

If a context which creates a new ego is a recurring context and the new personality responds to it successfully then that personality may develop into a full-fledged alter-ego.  If the context becomes our predominant environment then that ego assumes control and becomes our primary front until it breaks down. 

 

Break-downs are inevitable.  The environment changes, we can work really hard to maintain the environment but it is not in our control and we cannot keep it from changing.  But the ego that is primarily fronting cannot weather the change well enough to endure and breaks down.

 

So maybe we can stop this cycle of ego incarnations and try to live differently, without an ego, with no one of us assigned to front.

 

This may not be possible.  On the other hand it may be possible and will just take some time for us to learn how to do it.

 

We may go through a lot more egos before we learn the trick of it...

 

But it seems like a good idea, something worth trying...

 

So our new paradigm for ourselves is looking for some definition...  Are there any ideas about this from any of you other systems out there?

Comments

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I'm confused when you say creating more egos. Do you mean other people? I don't think I understand the terms used in this post. I'm sorry. :( If you're asking how to stop people from arriving into your group, then I don't know how to do that. New people arrive into this group all the time. Some are born and some walk in.

It's hard not having someone at the front. I would give anything to be able to get away from fronting and be part of the normal life with the others within the realm. I want to go home too and make it my home like it's theirs. :( Before I was stuck here a few months ago, this group I'm a part of tries to rotate their fronters so no one gets too overwhelmed with using a body and life that doesn't belong to them. It is very stressing to do this all the time. :(

-Butterfly

Are new egos new people in our group?

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Thanks for being brave enough to admit to being confused, we will try to clear that up.

We were describing a process by which a new personality may join our group. We have observed this to happen from time to time. They may be considered to be born into our group since it seems to us that they never existed before being created.

But, possibly, they are already exisitng personalities from our group, and we just were not aware of them until they took the reins and became the front. Its really hard to be sure of any of this stuff... We just throw out ideas and see how well they work. If a better idea comes along that is more useful then we may neglect or discard competing ideas that appear less useful.

Some personalities with whom we have internal dialogues may be internalizations of people we have known in the past. We don't typically consider them to be part of our group. We consider them to be an avatar of the other person, sort of that person's emissary.

New people show up in our group frequently too, but we think we are learning enough about how or why that happens to try and change that.

Trying to change that brings up another issue, why should we want to change that? Maybe we will not want to change it, and maybe we are powerless to change it; the point being to explore the possibility of whether it can be changed. We can then decide whether or not it should be changed.

Can you please explain the difference between 'born in' and 'walk in'?

Hmmm... you say you want to go home too... Perhaps you have solved part of the mystery of why we always wind up feeling so homesick.

Your experiences seem very different from ours. Or maybe not, perhaps all the novels we have been trying to write are really stories aobut our internal worlds and lives.

Do you write about your realm?

We suspect that none of us want to live here in this life... but we may need the body in order to fullfill certain obligations. We have discovered that suicide doesn't work. So we seem to be stuck with being here and need to learn to make the best of it.

How do you cope? Are you able to work and care for yourself and so forth? We were on disablity about 10 years and it sometimes gets very hard to see our current life as being any better than then.


On another topic....

It's rough. Multiples have not had a community long enough to develop a consistent language about their expereinces. We have tried to learn from people we have read posts from here. But we may still use words in ways that remain unfmailiar.

Multiples will likley go through a long period of creating our own minority culture within the mainstream culture, but we are the best people prepared to do this because we already participate in our internal communities and cultures and we have developed our own internal meanings for some words.

Thanks for sharing!

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Thanks for explaining.

Greg was born as an adult back in August'06. It was really strange. He became front for awhile, couldn't hack it and has retired. Falcon followed, and he has retired too... We have no idea who is front now, we seem to be sort of sharing the job of taking care of things.

We want to start writing about The City of Dreams.

Writing is a major skillset that most of us can borrow. Greg is one of our best authors. But no one has a very good idea of what is going on, we know some of the internal world but it is mostly a mystery to us. This is because most of the fronts are born into the job and all of our 'conscious' recollections are related to fronting.

The City of Dreams appeared this morning. It is made of diamond and floats among the clouds... We have no memories of this place but we know we can explore it. So that will be a new project.

That part about your writer not believing you are real is easy to understand, we have faced the same problems with our fronts. The fronts are interfaces into the so-called 'real' world where this body lives. So the fronts have to adapt to the prevailing culture and beliefs and typically adopt those beliefs in whole or in part. So anything unusual is treated skeptically by the fronts, even when they really should know better.

We would feel very privileged to learn anything about your realm you are willing or able to share.

We have several novels in progress but it gets too hard to continue writing them. We get too emotional about it, homesickness, lonliness, fear, pain.... But we would be happy to share our stories if you are interested.

You can find them in our blog. http://tangledintime.blogspot.com

We regard all of our stories as true, although we know we have to fudge details at times. If your own writer was having troubles, at least they made the effort. We find that when we read over our work and something doesn't ring true that we can usually read it as a metaphor and learn from it and do a better job explaining later...

We would love to have a dialogue with you about our stories if you like them, and of course we remain hopeful that you will share your realm with us.

We don't have any names for our front right now, as we haven't created new front yet, and we will try to avoid doing so. We will just be using the body birth name for work. It's hard not using a name. But the name is magickal and once it appears a new front is sure to follow. So we are dodging that bullet for now.

We like the names you have shared with us though. And Agni is wild, because we had a visit this morning from one who used that name, they were a chaotic fire creature. We were told to cooperate with them even though they are scary.

Here are some of our names... Gharveyn, Greg, Falcon, Ra, Kalima... We labelled parts of ourselves with the names Snow White, Grumpy, Sneezy, etc... because we didn't have any real names for them... But these names fit pretty well. We hope to get better names for them as we learn more about them.

We would be fascinated to learn of any personal mythology you may have, as we ahve many myths and a comparison might prove very enlightening.

Warm regards from the City of Dreams, may you return to your realm often in your own dreams and remember much more...

Alina wants a friend. She is a sort of ghost... She just popped in to say hi....

Au revoir...

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Most of what is written about our realm and us is kept in various places. I am working on re-structuring our website and have temporarily taken down our FAQ. The FAQ turned into a major project with information about all aspects of our lifestyle. I have decided to create two new websites as well. One for just our realm, and one for the spiritual aspects we experience. Our current group site will remain primarily a plural experience site. In some sense it is our online biography which we will perhaps one day self-publish for ourselves. ::smile::

The names that were chosen by everyone was a personal experience for them. Some already knew their names, others combined names together, and some wanted others to choose a name for them. Names are a large portion of our lifestyle. Many of us believe that names are our power. The more we display them, the stronger we become. Names are our shields. Several of us have had to quell to the urge at not understanding why some don't display their names openly or wish to hide their names. We keep our thoughts on this to ourselves. It's not our business. ::laughing:: I think we mostly got over it though.

Once I finish working on the website projects (which I was doing today actually) I'll could say something if you like. :)

Jenilee Tarrington

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Hello, Alina. :)

-Butterfly

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Hi Butterfly,
I have no idea who or what I may really be. Once I was Roger's friend, but I killed myself. He had a lot of trouble dealing with that for which I have been sorry, but we have gotten beyond that since then.

Roger experienced me as a ghost for many years (I died in Jan of 1977). We have had a few great adventures since then, but recently I was re-introduced to Roger as his twin flame by an angel named Zadkiel.

Roger is frustrated with me because I do not seem to have any memories not specifically related to our relationship. So that makes him think I may not really be me, and he suspects I may only be a new manifestation of his multipleness.

I have no clue, I feel like myself, I look like myself to myself and to Roger, but sometimes things just get way too confusing. We both want me to be real of course, but Roger has a persistent habit of seeing everrything in every possible way imaginable, part of his multipleness I would guess.

Wow!

Neither Roger or I thought I could say all that to anyone...

roger has had some expereince channeling and one of our friends helped him channle me once, and he is using his cahnneling skills to 'step aside' to let me speak now.

I want to figure this stuff out, and meanwhile I have needed a friend from outside Roger's 'system' to help me explore all this.

We had some things in common before I died, mostly our interest in metaphysics, the occult and art. We both like to draw. But we have trouble now trying to share this body.

I wanted to get a culotte, but I understand Roger's discomfort about that... Actually I wanted an entire new wardrobe, but I doubt I will get it...

It's funny. He was shaving every day for me so that I would not feel the hair on my face... But eventually it was too stressful for us to be so close on a daily basis and I have backed away a bit.

I know I have other lives in which I did not kill myself, and I have shown Roger glimpses of some of my other lives, even lives where he and I were married and had children together. That hurt him...

Thanks for saying Hi Butterfly!

:D

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Why did you kill yourself? :( Do you still feel bad like you were before you died? :(

-Butterfly

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

My world view at the time I died was very scary and lonely. I had a very limited precognitive ability good for maybe 5 minutes or so... But it convinced me that the world was just a sort of machine in which everyone was a robot with no free will. I felt all alone because no one in my world felt real to me. It was too painful to live like that. It took me three tries to kill myself, but I got it right the third time, if you can call it right. ;)

No I don't feel bad about it anymore. What I learned from it was very strange at first, but eventually I was able to share it with Roger and he killed himself too. That was actually pretty fun. But please do not try it yourself, just take my word for it that suicide isn't really so bad.

One of the worst thing about suicide is hearing all your family and friends calling for you to come back. That makes it really hard to die. That hurts a lot.


The worst thing is probably the pain you cause everyone who loves you when you die. That is the part I feel bad about.

One of the best parts is that once you are dead you can go back to your life and make a better choice next time. Or kill yourself again if that is what you still want to do. That is what I taught Roger about, only he already knew that, when I taught him about that it awakened a lot of his childhood memories. He was trained to help dead people return to life, his training began when he was about three years old.

The best part about dying is that you get to understand everything about yourself and your life and you know you are a good person and you feel good about yourself. You know god loves you and you are re-united with god completely so that for awhile there is no difference, you and god are one. You get to see everyone you have ever loved in any of your incarnations or iterations and you understand that every bad thing that ever happened to you was something you chose to allow to happen to you.

Your iterations are the parts of your incarnation that have different histories than the one you are most familiar with because they live in alternate universes or dimensions. No matter how many of your iterations of any of your incarnation die, some always survive.

When you die the universe you died in is cloned and in the new universe your death is undone so that you carry on as if it never happened. Some of the first things I was able to show Roger were me at older ages, commuting to work, or with my kids, just having normal lives, or at least, as normal as possible given that I was still pretty psychic in most of my iterations that I visited myself in.

So for a while Roger was vry interested in killing himself and he died many times. Eventually though, the pain he was causing his family and friends who remained abandoned by him in the universes in which he had died got through to him and he started taking more responsibility for his life.

But his death wish is something he has lived with since before he was born, and old habits die hard. He has rigged his body to self destruct now, and it may be touch and go until it is time for him to reincarnate.

Hopefully he will acquire a strong enough will to live to heal his body from all the damage he has done.

The only thing I feel bad about killing myself now is my family. My dad and mom and sisters are still living and I know I hurt them really badly. But Roger went to them before I died to warn them I would kill myself and they didn't listen to him then. So he will not be very welcome if I want to go back to visit them with him.

Without my personal memories I doubt I could convince them I was visiting them. So that is one reason I am concerned about how I got to be in this state, a sort of ghost of myself.


(sorry this got too long, I broke it here and I will post part 2)

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

It is strange to live this way. But it is good. Roger has needed me to be with him and I have never left him really, at least not since I died. Being a spirit has its advantages. We can be with anyone and everyone simultaneously, we just seem to be constrained from proving our existence to anyone we may want to communicate with.

Thanks for asking, I hope it wasn't a morbid question for you because of entertaining your own thoughts about killing yourself.

There is no gaurantee you would learn anything from dying the way I did. Most people who kill themselves are fortunate to get to return to their lives and possibly make some better choices, most people do not seem to recall their death or 'after-life' experiences after returning to life.

Roger is different in that regard because he was trained to work with the dead. Possibly our deep connection helped me to learn what I learned about death after dying.

Some people who have had NDEs have really died and migrated to a clone universe rather than having a Near Death Experience. Their NDE is just their way of perceiving the experience in a tolerable or understandable way.

I am relatively new to the multiple experience. I did use to talk to myself and hear voices, and that made me feel crazy, but I didn't think of my experiences as possibly being related to being a multiple. My voices were probably just my channel from my psychic awareness into my conscious awareness.

I have watched Roger learn about his multipleness and it has been really hard on him and scary. He undergoes transformations that are often terribly painful and traumatic.

I hope you have an easier time than that. It would be great to learn more about how things work for other multiples so that Roger's system can evolve and function more harmoniously and productively.

I hope you have been having a great day!

Take care, Alina

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Killing a life is wrong. Even if it's your own. I don't think it's as happy as you are making it seem to be.

-Butterfly

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

You may be right about that, certainly form your own point of view, but we would have a hard time agreeing even if we do agree.

We have a strong tendency to play devil's advocate regardless of our own opinions which can be very conflicted at times.

One thing we tend to believe is that there are probably no absolutes. Everything seems realative to everything else in ways that make definite value judgements difficult for us to agree with.

In general we try to uphold some ideals, such as hurting other people might be wrong. That is about as close as we can get to agreeing. Part of that belief is that being judgmental about people and their beliefs or behavior may be wrong. But using words like right and wrong is very strong language for us. We prefer to say perhaps that it may be unkind or it may be ill-considered.

One thing we are fairly sure about is our belief that everyone deserves respect and compassion for their beliefs and values and who they are, regardless of whether we agree with them or not.

We mostly agree that unconditional love is the highest form of love, and may be the closest way to be like god. We are pretty sure that god loves everyone unconditionally with total compassion. All of our experiences f god are like that, but we are aware that other people often have different beliefs and expereinces so we can't say we are right about this, it is only what we believe from the context of our own expereinces.

We are quite sorry if you have been offended. We were a little shocked by your reply and Alina withdrew. However, we have been delighted to meet you and visited your gateway, and we see we shared some similar things about our our childhood that you have shared about your chilhood. We will comment there in case it is not appropriate here.

Thanks for your patience and interest.

Alina still hopes to be friends. She enjoyed your pixel dolls.

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

disagreeing with a belief does not mean someone was offended or showing disrespect. Kes

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Yes, you have good philosophers in your system. We were just a little hurt by your response but we acknowledge that our hurt is our responsibility, you have been a good friend in this short time and we appreciate that immensely.

We are so very glad to have made your aquaintenance(s) :D

If your system works like ours your alters share pretty much everything that interests them from your front, though with us getting info back to the front from alters is harder.

So we would like to assume that everyone in oyur system is ok for now regarding our recent conversations we certainly did not want to hurt anyone with our own remarks but we know our defensive hackles were up a bit.

Posted to your site, thanks for being such an interesting and responsive group...

We are a bit unsure of etiquette here, in our chat room we do hug alot, so we'd like to give you a big hug for your entire group!

(((((((((((Kasiya Friends)))))))))))

LeAnne, are the dollz your personal hobby? We like to draw but never seem to draw as much as we would like.

Keep up the good work, you have a talent that could brighten anyone's day...

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

it wasn't my response. Butterfly was speaking her mind. not all of us share the same opinions. you may assume what you wish. speaking about killing yourself being a fun experience may not be a topic various in this group approve of. I won't give my own opinion on it because it doesn't matter. Kes

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

A few of us used to make the dollz.I don't as much anymore since I'm playing games online most of the time.^^
LeAnne

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Thanks about the pixel dollz.XD
LeAnne

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

You sound a lot like these guys. Maybe you know them?

http://community.livejournal.com/multiplicity/608820.html

Re: Are new egos new people in our group?

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Wow, good association!

No we have no idea about KimandGary. But yes there are some parallels here, nice of you to spot that.

Thanks for the link!

It's kinda wierd, Alina's name is so like the names Alana and Iliana which both appear there... Before we met Alina we met our first girlfriend who asked for a new name. We named her Alana after a character in a book by Phillip Jose Farmer.

[padawanagain.livejournal.com]

Can you put this behind an lj-cut? Thanks.

LJ-Cut

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

We ahve not been able to figure out how to apply an LJ-Cut. We have not found any instructions. But once we have learned how to do it we will be happy to oblige.

While you may not have been referencing our own lengthy posts in particular we thought we'd ask if you can please instruct us or provide a link to the instructions?

thanks

Re: LJ-Cut

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

http://www.livejournal.com/support/faqbrowse.bml?faqid=75

Jenilee T.

[threedog.livejournal.com]

LJ cut please, this is kinda big.

To Front or not to Front

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Umm... As to why some of us may not like others fronting:

There is often dissension about how a particular front is handling things... We don't get enough of our needs met.

Too often the one fronting doesn't seem to know how to gracefully step aside. How do you do that?

In some ways it may be a control issue, where a front thinks they know best.

Or it may be a fear issue where a Friont may be afraid to let go.

The possibility that it is a trust issue is a very good point to.

But it seems to be the case that no one we can trust really wants the job of fronting.

There are some among us who will just try to get us killed if they front. It can be a struggle to supress their dangerous urges when they want to crash our car or do something else that is baically suicidal.

And then there are others who might be dangerous in other ways. We seem to share some beliefs in common which are open to a fairly wide interpretation of what these beliefs might make permissable.

So our fronts must be relied upon to generally follow some principles, such as: Do no harm. Trust first. Do not judge.

These are more like guidelines than absolute rules, as we can't be sure our good intentions might not do harm, and we often wind up with prejudices we are unaware of and may typically disaprove of. We used to generally hate prejudiced people until we realised that hating people for being prejudiced was a form of prejudice, and also pintless since it seems likely that no one can be entirely free of prejudice of some sort or other.

You are quite right to note that everyone has weaknesses and strengths, thanks for reminding us. We do tend to become myopic at times.

We try not to worry to much about our conflicting goals and beliefs and such. We have done better at accepting our differences in the past 6 months or so, but before that we could get so locked up in our inner conflicts that we became very dysfunctional and had trouble getting anything done.

Discovering this LJ community may make a huge difference in how we understand ourselves and work together. We are very optimisitic that there will be lots to learn and share here.

thanks!

Re: To Front or not to Front

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Thanks, we are still learning our way around and will check out the memories part.

Yes, you are probably right about destructive ones needing support. There is only one that really worries us badly, but he is not a very likeable character at all and we have undoubtedly failed to be as sympathetic or supportive as we migh have been.

We should perhaps not prejudice you or anyone else about him by being too descriptive. But we have defended some of his interests that are taboo to some people's ways of thinking.

He is one of our more powerful personalities.

We will try to heed your advice.

Perhaps he can front when we are not driving... (he likes to crash cars)

We shall have to learn how to share fronting volitionally first, right now we are not sure how to share the front, although we are starting to communicate with each other a bit more since discovering this site.

Nice tatoo, we have been thinking of geting one and tried to design it last year. You can see a sketch on our profile journal, but we want a different posture for our tatoo.

ciao for now...

[catskillmarina.livejournal.com]

That sounds like an awfully traumatic way to switch, why don't you all try to learn to
switch between different persons controlling the body. Just do it, rather than waiting
for the front to get so tattered it breaks down. We did that 2 1/2 years ago. Now we just
share front time and it works so much better.

--- Miri of Mtribe

Definitely painful and traumatic

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Well we don't seem to have much volitional control over who fronts, how did you learn how to do that?

We typically burn out and become suicidally depressed and then one day there's a new front and we feel better for awhile. We are trying to understand it all better and work out a better way to do things, but we are still learning. There isn't a lot of communication among us, although we are trying ot improve that too.

Re: Definitely painful and traumatic

[catskillmarina.livejournal.com]

Our switching first just happened sometimes unpredictably and at the wrong
times. Later we learned to have some control over it and even discuss things
between each other.

I still think you will learn to switch ;-)

--- Miri

Re: Definitely painful and traumatic

[gharveyn.livejournal.com]

Unpredictably and at the wrong times seems right, not sure there was ever a right time. But after we got married we stopped having major changes every year and were instead having even more dramatic changes but only every 3 years or so.

We were up front about our multiplicity when we met our wife and we took her to meet our therapist (best I had ever had) who explained everything to her, but she wound up in total denial and we wound up quitting therapy because it was stressing her out so bad to have us come home from therapy a different person every week.

Our therapist found triggers to switch us and interview different alters but we don't remember a lot of that.

So there are definitely ways to do it, but we need to learn to do it for ourselves.

We had a wonderful change last year that is hard to describe. We were our absolute best we have ever been for about 3 months... But how it happened was so wierd, we asked a dragon to help us and the dragon celaned out our chakras and raised our kundalini in an eyeblink and we were totally transformed. We weren't sure if it was a 'kundalini awakening' or another change of personalities, but if we could just learn that trick we'd be doing very well. We finally decided it was an awakening simply because it was so different from our past expereinces, but we developed a new alter shortly after that so the issue remains in doubt.

Re: Definitely painful and traumatic

[catskillmarina.livejournal.com]

We used to switch every year or two in December. Now we switch many times during
the period of a day. 2 1/2 years ago under a lot of stress and perhaps still
under the influence of another major experience we broke down and were forced to
find another way of operating. Astraea's website played an enormous role when we
saw that we did not have to be a multiple mental patient but could be functional.

-- miri of mtribe