(no subject)

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

Hi, I just joined. I have about 10 or more people right now. I guess my system's name is Enigma or sometimes Ambhuruham. Our other collective livejournal is called ambhuruham. It's friends only because it has really weird and triggering stuff in it. This is my (Kat's) livejournal. I'm almost always in front. Especially since we have to go to school and such. Umm... I'm not diagnosed with DID and I don't think I have it. I mean, it's hard to explain... but it's different, I think. (More about that in a bit.) The other people in here are becoming more and more articulate and defined, so I decided I needed some support. So hi.. :)


Umm... there's someone in here named Yuri. She really hates me. She yells at me a lot and cuts me and makes me throw up and do things I don't want to do. I was just wondering... how do I make her go away? I mean... I kind of don't want her to leave because I know I won't be okay without her. But how can I make myself okay without her and make her leave? It's really scary sometimes... I don't know...

She wrote this:
"I hate you Kat. I hate everything about you. I even hate myself because I am part of you. You shouldn't even be here. You're the opposite of what's right. You... you mess everything up. Nothing's good anymore because you make it bad. You know what you do is wrong, but you're too weak to change it. You should get nothing you want and everything you don't. I'm glad that everything happened. I'm SO FUCKING GLAD. Because it makes me happy to see you hurt. And it makes me happy that you will always be hurt. Because you deserve it. You're bad. I'm not going to let you have friends. I'm not going to let you be happy. I'm not going to let you have anything until you are perfect. You are so fucking LUCKY that you have me... because I am your only chance. Without me, you are lost. Without me, you couldn't survive."

This is a list of the people I know of that are in here:
Yuri- She scares me sometimes. She doesn't like me.
Kat- Me. I don't know what to say about myself... heh...
Kiki- She's very silly sometimes.
Lilly- She is nice and patient knows a lot.
Rika- She protects and stops conflicts. Very emotionally stable.
Miasti- She is a shapeshifter. She likes being a wolf the most.
Kamala- She's very calm and smart kind of like Lilly. They talk a lot.
Kira- She is older and is a beautiful personality. She protects too.
Mark- He's a good friend. I talk to him a lot.
JHY/Jay- He can be offensive sometimes, but he's pretty funny.
Little girl with no name yet- She's very quiet and gets scared easily. She's little.

We used to have someone named Jackie. She was very nice. But she died. I don't know why though. :( RIP...

For us, it's kind of like the disassociative barriers are very weak. They are getting stronger though. It's like, I can see memories when someone else has been in front, but it wasn't me there. I can hear the other people's thoughts, but I can't always understand them and I don't always agree with them. When we communicate to each other, we can send each other emotions and thoughts and make each other understand exactly how we feel. Most of the time, if someone other than me wants to write or speak or do something, I only let them do it through me, if that makes sense? Sometimes Yuri fronts though.

There's a bunch of blocked off stuff inside here. Sometimes we have very fuzzy memories about being raped and abused and stuff. The rape memories might be false though, because there's no evidence that something like that ever happened. I get really scared and I'm very paranoid. I don't let anyone touch our body at all. I'm always afraid that people want to hurt us.


That's all about us for now. If anyone wants to talk, my AIM sns are ParadoxRegina and VirtualWolf.

Love,
KittyKat

X-Posted to alter_paradox

Comments

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

Question: Would you consider getting rid of her to be murder?

My host tried to get rid of me because my prescence was at the time tearing her engagement to bits. I have to say it was one of the most horrible experiences of my life. I'm not sure whether I would have ceased to exist or not.

(I find it mildly amusing that her name is that of f/f relationships.)

Have you tried getting her to sit down and talk? Writing to her? Anything like that? Have you tried having other people outside of your system talk to her? It's entirely possible she can be reasoned with.

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

My therapist has tried talking to her, but she didn't know she wasn't talking to me because I was too embarassed to tell her when I came back and Yuri wanted her to think it was me. She does that sometimes. She's not really easy to reason with. She is mad at me for everything I've done. She really has my best interests at heart, I think. She wants me to be a good person, but she's kind of harsh with me because I'm not. I guess I can try and write to her. It's hard because she's almost entirely just rage. She used to be easier to talk to, though...

-Kat

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

I used to be a pain in the ass (Still am if you get me at the right time)

Give it a go and see what happens. .... Try to avoid sympathy or being too 'caring' though. It can push buttons for 'angry people'.

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

Thank you. :)

I know what you mean about that. My dad is way too sympathetic sometimes and even I get annoyed with him, and I'm not really that angry.

-Kitty

[shandra.livejournal.com]

I have to chime in and say that I was "the angry one" in the past too. :)

I totally agree that if you can work it out to mutual respect at least, that is the most stable and best path for you both, in my experience.

I also wonder if some time for her to do her things would help. Although some limits (like no cutting - plus that is her body too!) are good. But for me a lot of frustration came from feeling blocked at every turn - that I couldn't find a way to be really me, not just group-pacifying-me. Once I had space to be me, I was able to see other people's points of view more easily and negotiate in good faith.

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

Heh... I'll try that.

Maybe she can hang out with some outside friends or something...

-Kat

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

Outside friends can work. For me at least, the more respect I got as a person, the more respect I gave.

not your best interest

[reinahada.livejournal.com]

its not your best interest to be told you are bad and that you can't have friends. not at all in your best intererst. she's verbally abusing you. it could be that is all she knows how to do, but you don't deserve it, not from her or from anyone. the fact that you believe she has your best interests in heart just goes to show how much control she has over you. it's quite possible that you could live just fine without her. i find it telling that you couldn't tell about yourself. don't let her define you.

distraida-claudia

Re: not your best interest

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

Arg...

I'm confused.
I don't feel like I CAN be okay without her. I think I would fall apart. I'm too attached to her that I can't even make myself make her go away. She defended us against our mom, she gives me rules, she motivates me to be better. I really want to be better. It would be unstructured without her and I couldn't live like that.

-Kat

Re: not your best interest

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

No, it's not okay to accept verbal abuse. If, as you hypothesize, it's the only thing she knows how to do, however, does this mean that it's okay to attempt to negate her existance?

There are ways Kat can set boundaries which don't immediately resort to wishing Yuri away.

I find it telling that Yuri wasn't always like this. *shrugs*

--Me

Re: not your best interest

[reinahada.livejournal.com]

hey yo what up

i never meant to imply that she should kill her or wish her away and yeah you are seriously right she needs help, especially after you point out that she didn't used to be like this, the girl is going through something probably that we can't possibly understand. hopefully she can find the right kind of help, either inside or out.

we had a member one time who always made fun of others and was generally pretty mean. we were able to put her to sleep for a month and help her via dreams and telepathy to learn that it is okay to have and feel emotions, and it is okay to feel something other than pain, because she was convinced that we needed to feel pain, like all the time, because that way we couldn't ever really be hurt.

distraida-claudia and maybe someone else

What happened?

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

You say it wasn't always like this, so what happened?

What do you think caused the change in her behavior.

--Me

Re: What happened?

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

I suppose we were less distant and less like two seperate people. She still didn't like me much, but she wasn't as hard on me and she understood my mistakes more. *Shrugs*

-Kat

Re: What happened?

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

When reading this, I started off skeptical, I'll admit. I mean, what does becoming "more separate" have to do with this sudden change. I got to thinking about it however, and I remembered some things I've noticed over the years, which might be of assistance.

1. Sometimes, when people are starting to understand themselves, and come into their own, they run the risk of polarizing themselves. Essentially, attempting to understand each other in relation to the other, in a way that has a habit of making system members percieve themselves and others in-system in black and white terms. This can cause unnecessary static between system members, especially if they feel the need to live up to the impossible hype.



2. As people establish themselves as separate beings, there can be an increased tendancy to point fingers within the system, when in fact the person doing the pointing has at least partial responsibility as well. Mutual responsibility for circumstances is at times considered mutually exclusive to autonomy and individual responsibility. Sometimes the feeling has basis, but not always. For example: you indicated that she's not happy with the weight of the body, and if I understand correctly, holds you responsible for that. However, she could use the time she spends fronting to work out rather than cut. So, she could do something about it, rather than complain.

I don't know if any of this is helpful, but it's something to think about, providing I was at all clear.

--Me

[ex-kiota.livejournal.com]

She reminds me a lot of a girl we/I used to have, she called herself The Mask... and she helped me survive for a long time before she started getting abusive. She had an attitude that seems similiar to Yuri - that I ruin everything, I wouldn't survive without her, etc. She's gone now. I'm not sure why. She just kind of faded away.

About Yuri... I don't think you really CAN get rid of her. Maybe you can get the group to pressure her into stopping abusing you, set some rules she has to abide by - no harming the body, etc. If she doesn't abide by them, maybe you or someone else from the group could keep her from fronting?

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

We try, but she fronts anyway. She's the strongest person here, I think. If we made rules for her, I think that would offend her and make her upset because SHE'S the one that makes rules for ME. *Shrugs* I think I should just talk to her more and understand... and get Kira to stand up to her.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

I'm almost always in front. Especially since we have to go to school and such. Umm... I'm not diagnosed with DID and I don't think I have it. I mean, it's hard to explain... but it's different, I think. (More about that in a bit.)

You might want to think about it from this perspective. How much have you read, heard, or been told about multiplicity? Do you have certain pre-conceived expectations about what multiplicity 'is', and feel you don't qualify if you don't meet a certain set of standards?

If you've spent a lot of time especially reading abot multiplicity online, it can be easy to develop the expectation that you have to do certain things in order to be real.

I mean... I kind of don't want her to leave because I know I won't be okay without her. But how can I make myself okay without her and make her leave? It's really scary sometimes... I don't know...

Has Yuri maybe felt that she has to fulfil a role of being resentful and destructive towards others in the system, because in all the accounts she's read, multiples 'always have someone like that,' and she's afraid she or the system isn't real if that kind of thing isn't going on?

You say she really seems to have your best interests at heart-- does she think acting out and doing things you wouldn't want is the best way to get your attention, or does she maybe think based on what she's read that this is the only way to get someone's attention in a system? Is she trying to prove to you that she's real? What have you done that she would be angry at you for?

Has she maybe been 'expectationed'-- someone else in your group saw her as being 'the destructive one' and she began to view herself that way also?

It's like, I can see memories when someone else has been in front, but it wasn't me there. I can hear the other people's thoughts, but I can't always understand them and I don't always agree with them.

Sure, it sounds like you guys communicate and share memories in a very normal way. Lots of systems do that-- we do.

There's a bunch of blocked off stuff inside here. Sometimes we have very fuzzy memories about being raped and abused and stuff. The rape memories might be false though, because there's no evidence that something like that ever happened.

The best thing you can really do on this one is to not push it. Even if something did happen, I think it's usually better to let memories come back on their own than to try too hard to look for them-- if you try too hard, that's when your mind can start creating things which didn't really happen. It can be disturbing, I know, and you really want to know for sure-- but sometimes it's easier just to work from the standpoint that how you get along with each other now is the most important thing.

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much.

I don't think any of us ever have the idea that we're not real because we don't fit exactly in the DID mold. I mean, I don't know if I have DID or not... but if I don't, that doesn't make us any less real. I think Yuri is just mad at me because she really does hate me and resent me. She doesn't like our body because it's fat, she is mad because I don't stand up for myself when people "abuse" me, etc. She's like a mom who desperately wants her child to be perfect and the best, and gets frustrated because it's really a horrible kid. :/ She points out everything wrong that I do. But that's good because I can fix it.

I'll try not to push memories... but it's hard because I really want to know if something happened.

-Kat

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

If your people are people, you do not have DID. According to the ISSD, clients with DID merely believe they have many selves and must be educated back into thinking of themselves as one person. Quoting from the ISSD Adult Treatment Guidelines, http://www.issd.org/indexpage/isdguide.htm:

"The DID patient is a single person who experiences himself/herself as having separate parts of the mind that function with some autonomy. The patient is not a collection of separate people sharing the same body. The terms personality and alter (short for alternate personality) refer to dissociated parts of the mind that alternately influence behavior in DID patients. Some clinicians prefer terms such as disaggregate self state, part of the mind, or part of the self."

If this does not fit you, you do not have DID.

Yuri's hypercritical nagging is not conducive to your self-esteem. She needs to back off and cut you some slack. Your report sounds as if you think she is criticizing you for your own good. This is a sign of having been abused emotionally, and if you don't think emotional abuse is "that bad", think again. If she wants you to stand up for yourself when others abuse you, you might begin by standing up to her.

Most survivors of childhood trauma, abuse, etc. report being unable to forget. Being unable to remember, a la the Wilburian MPD setup, is real, but less common. So chances are that if you do not remember "something happening" it's because it didn't. It does sound as if you were emotionally abused, however, or Yuri would not be able to get away with her constant criticism; you'd call her on it.

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

report being unable to forget.

It can get complicated. Our main front did her damndest to forget. The signs were obvious. Hyperalertness, serious sex and trust issues, unreasoning terror at certain objects and situations, flashbacks that a week later were barely remembered... The trauma signs were there.

The rest of us remembered just fine. We were told in a very convincing manner that the lives of the people we cared about were dependent on us appearing to be perfectly fine and normal. When we all finally decided to work on healing this, the flashbacks and such were continual and pretty rotten. The way our life was arranged, we didn't have the resources to handle that until recently.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Welcome. You don't need to worry about "triggering" anyone here. This is an open community. The only reason to lj-cut a post is if it goes over forty or so lines.

Have a look at the community info... this may be different from any multiple forum you've ever been involved in.

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

Thank you.
It sounds like this is a good community for me. :)
I always cut triggering stuff in any community because I can say a whole lot of really weird and triggering things. Even for people with no emotional illness or disorder.

-Kat

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

Being disturbed by something isn't in and of itself a bad thing. It's how you respond to getting disturbed that matters.

--Me

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

You'd be surprised. "Weird and triggering" to one person is likely to be completely routine to another. This is a no-censorship community. Cut your posts if you must, but bear in mind it is not required. Go back through older community posts and read some of them before judging yourself. The others in your group are also welcome to post here and give their view.

We used to have some people just like Yuri. High Council repealed the laws that put them in place and they are now permanently retired.

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

Your description of dissociative barriers being weak isn't that unusual. Good communication can take many forms. We usually communicate like that.

The blocked stuff, strongly suggest you let it be. Some of our kids hold a lot of trauma, and they aren't ready to deal with it yet. It'll come up to be worked on when you all are ready. Treat the trauma symptoms when they appear.

Yuri... we've had a couple of violent and abusive types in our system. As we talk more with them they decide to protect others in the system or turn out to be holding some of the nastiest memories and feelings of self-loathing. Sometimes both. For several of them, their original duty was to 'patrol' our behavior so we didn't do things that'd get us punished. If you're willing to work with her, have you offered her her own journal or sketchbook or whatever works for her?

My system has a no-kill policy, so I don't know how people in other systems go about getting rid of one another. We work under the assumption that we wouldn't be here if we weren't necessary.

[karma-silenced.livejournal.com]

Thank you, this helps.

I thought about giving her a livejournal... but then I'd have to give everyone one. I suppose I could do that, but they'll all want to front everyday so they can write in it privately. I could still do it though. And I could buy everyone a sketchbook. We like to record poems and stuff too, so maybe I could let them front to do that sometimes.

We're going to have a "conference" in a little while so we can work everything out. The no-kill policy is a good idea. That would definately bring the fear and anxiety down a lot.

Thank-you,
Kat

[whispersong.livejournal.com]

Make an lj community just for your system perhaps.

{J}tatiana

[http://users.livejournal.com/-fragmented-/]

We have a girl in here who is very hostile towards the body, and most people inside as well as outside people. She and I get along quite well and she's not all bad. She has started communicating better with everyone lately and I believe it was because they gave her a chance to express herself and everyone actually listened to her. Perhaps try talking to Yuri, or ask someone else to give her a chance. Maybe all she wants is to be heard?
This is just from my experience sorry if it does not help.
- Yve