Pro-integration?

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

Hi,

I know this is a touchy subject, but i've been looking for some information on multiple's that have been integrated. I'm looking for positives, as most of what i've found so far is negative.

Thanks

Comments

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

Maybe there are no positives (Hey, screening comments? That's hardly fair)

For people who are fragmented/dissociated etc, I've heard it CAN be good. Not the butterflies and flowers image they want you to think, but it can be useful. Suddenly you are whole again! ^______^

Or something.

For somebody who is multiple though, I think integration is morally unnacceptable, so frankly I am GLAD it's mostly negatives people find.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

I imagine they had comments screened in order to avoid being flamed. Considering what can happen to you on MPD/DID forums if you mention healthy multiplicity, I think it's entirely understandable.

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't realise there was a screen/unscreen option

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

You might begin with Sybil, who was integrated repeatedly over many years. She always differentiated again, and said she felt much better with her family around her.

Billy Milligan's people can integrate at will, but don't like to do so unless it's absolutely necessary, because they tend to lose their unique abilities. The artists and musicians of the group noticed particularly that they lost their "edge". Alan still describes their experiences with integration as "the whole is less than the sum of the parts". Still, if you need to learn to integrate voluntarily, Daniel Keyes' book describes how they did it.

Mending Ourselves (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0963727702/astraeaswebmulti/002-8792973-3882449) is a collection of essays and poems describing the integration process.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

That said, I've checked your livejournal.

It seems from your entries there that you are choosing to integrate solely because your boyfriend wishes you to do so. Had he not asked for this, you would not have opted for it?

Methinks you need to re-assess what's important in your lives; this man and his demands, or your people.

[duathir.livejournal.com]

I agree. From the behavior you describe, this man is about to leave you anyway, assuming you do not leave him first because he is not worth having.

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'm not solely doing it because of my bf. I admit it's a skewed perspective on there, but I've been working on it for about 6 months now, and at the moment I just dont want to do it. It's all a bit blurry and confused.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Then don't. What makes you think you have to? Plenty of multiples live separately, by working out a cooperative arrangement. If it's that uncomfortable, perhaps it isn't the best option for you. What do your system-mates say?

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

Most of them are quite happy with the idea. I've got chronic pain and all of a sudden I've not been able to turn it off, I'm having to deal with it; which is the thing that worries most of them.

I just have this feeling that I'm going to have this fantastically big crash and I guess that's the thing that worries me most.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

And very likely it is that you might have that. The general ambience of this entire procedure doesn't give the impression of being all that balanced or healthy.

[redrainstorm.livejournal.com]

We function as a group, I could not even imagine full integration. We have had it happen to a few of us, it tends to happen naturally. When two of us are so alike they decide together to share the body. It works quite well, but to become ONE is just not something we want at all.
Melanie

[tempusfrangit.livejournal.com]

I agree with the above poster.

[squnq.livejournal.com]

Attempts to forcibly integrate us didn't work so well. A few of my peers were integrated but afterwards, those amongst us who were hiding came out. While integration isn't off the table for us, we're not terribly unhappy right now, so it hasn't been a concern.

[bizamoogie.livejournal.com]

A majority of people inside me have either died, been killed, left or integrated willingly. New people always pop up though. I don't know why. I currently have four, as opposed to the nine or so I had when I first joined here.

[idianshire.livejournal.com]

Ok like i have said before I have re-integrated. I had the whole MPD thing going on, split off fragments that became personalised. Integration isn't what it seemed to be in the books I read, it didn't fix my problmes. In some ways it made my problems more real, because they were mine to deal with. I am more a person now, or feel more of one, multi dimensional, able to feel and think in a wider range.

Like Andy I had a look at your lj journal and wanted to say, if you refuse to know about the life, the good the bad and the ugly then re-integration is not an option, even if you give lip service to it because you want to make other people happy the others will know, it will be like "fuck off" is tattooed on your forehead whenever you speak to them. As for your therapist saying you don't have to remember to integrate. Well I don't understand that. Are they all talking about reintegration or simply the killing off or locking up of people.

Anyway, for me re-integration was a positive experience, but not in the terms of skipping through the forest singing to the furry wee bunnies. In a lot of ways it made life harder, but only because living as a person in the world is a hard thing, worthwhile but hard and sometimes painful and sometimes joyous

Olivia of the Shire

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

In reference to that, I can't remember anything from before I was about 13, and although I have evidence in other ways what happened I dont really want to remember it.

Another perspective

[precisegirl.livejournal.com]

I know at least two people IRL who have chosen to integrate and spoken well of it.

The thing about integration, imho, is that very few people use it the same way, whether they're therapists or multiples or psych professors or lay people or whatever. It's sort of a useless word that way.

The people I mentioned above talked about it like... everyone being able to be fully present at the same time. Which sounded healthy to me, and like a reasonable goal. Anything beyond that (about identity, whether they feel multiple or function as many people or one or whatever) is the province of people who have actually done it, imho.

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

I don't mean to give the impression that I'm considering re-integration solely because of my bf. It's been a goal for a while, it's just that I'm at the stage after two years in therapy where I just don't want to do it anymore and am considering whether it is actually worthwhile to continue.

I'm blaming the bf because he's there to blame to be honest.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

And perhaps because he's been pushing for it and threatening to leave if you don't. And perhaps because your therapist has been encouraging it.

And if you don't want to do it any more, why should you? There are other options.

integration

[pilgrimchild.livejournal.com]

While I DO think it would be nice for everyone inside to work together a little better, and for things to run more smoothly, I dont necessarily think that integration is the ultimate goal. I can't imagine what it would be like. Would it be lonely? Who would you talk to? Would it feel.... "flat"?...like you were paper-thin?
Perhaps integration is the answer for SOME.
I dont think its the answer for everyone.
I am not sure its the answer for me, thats for sure.

Re: integration

[redrainstorm.livejournal.com]

So true. Many times our littles ask singletons "isn't it lonely to be by yourself?"

[ex-kiota.livejournal.com]

I think we might've integrated (or maybe the others just... left). In any case, I think it can be good IN SOME CASES, especially if you 'split' - i.e., your multiplicity was the result of abuse or something like that, and not natural.

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

My multiplicity is definately not natural. I have severe Post Traumatic Stress Disorder on top of everything else.

[judiff]

obviously i don't know anything about your cirumsatses but it is possible to be a natuarl multiple and to have been throuhg trauma. We think that's what happend to us - we were like always going to be plural but being abused meant we ended up with PTSD and more seperate than we migt of been

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

So do I, and I'm in a natural multiple system, but I take your point.

However, integration is often something that trauma/splitting multiples find isn't to their advantage either. You can be a trauma/split multiple and still live multiple today, as a healthy, cooperating system.

[planetnumber3.livejournal.com]

We have an IRL friend who has integrated.

She did it because she/they thought it would be a better environment for the child she was having, as they had bad missing time and responsibility issues.

It worked well for her. I know she'd say she has a good life now, but the integraton was a bit of a bother and difficult at first.



We've had single people running this system at a time, and it really doesn't work for us. We can't blend ourselves into one person, either so there isn't much of an integration issue for us. It's multiplicity or suicidal depression.

-XYZ

[shadowechoes.livejournal.com]

I don't think you'll find a lot of positives because there's not much that is postive about integration. It would be like trying to find something positive about committing suicide/murder - and that's how We view integration.

Also it seems that integration is never a solution. A lot of cases I have heard about always wound up splitting apart again, then reintegrating, then just still splitting apart.

Just because you have an abusive history doesn't mean integration is your only hope. We originally split from trauma-origins and many of Us have severe PTSD as well. However, We are still very anti-integration - We need each other to survive, We're like a big family now. Like I said, integration would be like killing each other. It's taken a lot of work over the years, but We're now very functional and highly co-conscious. Our problems are not from being multiple.

Maybe you need to find a therapist who would help you learn to function as a group better instead of forcing integration. And maybe a boyfriend who actually cares and is there to support you, not push you into things you're not sure you want while ignoring you.

~BrokenWings

Yes!

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

What you said.

[magickalmacleod.livejournal.com]

We were integrated once, and it didn't help. We felt scared, and Faith used to pound on the walls. Cubbie finally broke through a bit, and Rick let us come out again, and we've been better ever since. I know this post is a bit fragmented, I'm sorry.

Tara Lynn MacLeod
Pack Collective

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Nah, it's fine, it doesn't read as fragmented as it might appear to you. I think people understand what you mean. I know we do. Good for you guys, doing what's healthy for you.

[magickalmacleod.livejournal.com]

thanks, I've felt a bit fragmented lately, so it sounds that way to me.

Tara Lynn MacLeod
Pack Collective

[changelyng14.livejournal.com]

My gf's system self-integrated.
its hard for us to say what good it did her.
their story is they 'wanted to act and think in one voice'
I don't really know what their people think since I haven't spoken to any of them since.
Their new person seems alot of things to me. some good, some bad.
Shes alot more stable now. none of their old system-wide 'issues' seem really solved to me. ie, struggles that they pretty much all had.
We don't communicate with the new person much.
Were willing to bet that she 'leaks' often. we see the traits of some of her more distinctive folk often enough, though none have fessed up to fronting yet.

I really can't make up my mind if i think it was a good idea or not. they had alot of internal conflict and not so much faith that they'd work it out.
I miss these people and seeing her reminds me of them. Im skeptical that this will get them the happiness they want, especially if their specific whatevers go unaddressed.

On the other hand, the conflict appears to have ended. I wouldn't accuse the new one of being happy, nor happier, but she is clearly at peace. she's held the front for over six months now.

I don't care to share her details specifically, but we wonder if it was the better choice for them. she might be able to take this and do well. we're a little happier since we have reason to believe that they have the ability to undo it if they decided to. I've accepted that its her and their decision and that they've made it.


my system has memories of being soley conscious, but we cannot imagine how being glued back together would be desirable to us. given a number of the issues we used to have which no longer exist as a result of learning how to front (repressed rage, depression, freakishly darkened eye-bags, psychotic impulses, other subtle stuff). we believe that learning how to front, stay a part of life in some way, keep everyone feeling fulfilled, etc. is our road. we have resources tho, internal and external. and alot of us have an intense desire to survive and be ourselves.

I don't know, im very ignorant of integration. but with the very shallow understanding I have right now, i would recommend it as an option worth considering to systems of two sorts.

1. systems full of members who don't feel they are whole people, but rather all are some form of 'fragment' or something, (as opposed to a system full of solid individuals who would describe themselves as 'whole') AND arent interested in developing into whole people. my personal theory is that for systems of this sort, integration might actually work.

2. systems where peaceful resolution and functionality are beyond comprehension for whatever reason, and would agree that 'anything would be better then this'. my personal theory is that integration works less well the more 'solid' members have become.

I believe that 'the way' is developing each into functionality/wholeness/happiness/whateverness.

I don't believe that everyone is capable of it on their own, nor do i think that resources exist on an accessible level for such a person to get help.

good luck though, whatever you do.

(maybe we should all form our own island colony, like the lepers did? the unitedly divided states of _____?)

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the extensive information and opinion. It has given me a lot to think about. :)

integration

[reinahada.livejournal.com]

no way in hell. don't know who you are. didn't read your web page. don't care. all i got to say is no way in hell will any of us in this system ever integrate.

distraida-teenager

... err ...

That being said, now I will make my post. It is important to make sure that if you choose integration, you don't have any walk-ins or move-ins. If you do, they will have to leave before you integrate. Otherwise, you will end up with these people still there, but blocked away from everything. Imagine floating in darkness and there is nothing around you ... don't do that to anyone, okay?

Distraida-Melinda

[seraphimfell.livejournal.com]

I want to be able to remember more about my son's life. I can't remember very much about him when he was little.

I think if it's just one then i'll be able to be a better parent.

I'm tired of not being able to watch the television in case there is a trigger somewhere.

I understand the reason's why not to integrate, I just want to know some positives ok?

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

And you think integration will automatically give you back those memories?

Cornelia Wilbur's idea that one becomes multiple in order that different selves may "hold" the memories is valid in some cases, but is not true for all multiples. Do you have evidence that it is true for you?

Supposedly, as each person in the system reveals the memories he or she holds, that person ideally should disappear, or rather, merge into the conglomerate, since he or she is no longer needed. The presence of selves after disclosure was mistakenly interpreted as indicative of more deeply buried memories, and so the cycle continued into the Braun, Ross, Humenansky &c. era.

These "triggers" you speak about, are they memory triggers or are they just negative emotions? If they are memory triggers they might be valuable... we tend to face right into ours, even deliberately induce them, in hopes of insight.