(no subject)

[rusted-love.livejournal.com]

hi, i posted here once a couple of months ago, basically questioning my diagnosis of DID or something, i can't really remember. anyway, i still don't know where we stand as far as that (yet i say "we"); i'm still trying to figure it all out. but for the moment, let us assume i'm multiple. my concern right now is that, while i feel that there are others, no one ever fully comes out on their own, it's always co-conscious, and i'm always still here. i really want someone to come out on their own, without me having any control, because this would definitely prove my multiplicity to myself and make things easier. like, my mom will want to talk to them, and they'll sit there and tell me things to tell her. but since the actual words are coming from me, it leaves room for me to question whether it was all my idea and words to begin with. i also don't like being able to censor or change the words that come out, because i want to get their point across, but sometimes i'm not comfortable saying what they tell me to say. i always thought that co-consciousness would come with practice and experience, and i'm so very new at all of this and have no control over it and hardly any communication. is it normal to *only* have co-consciousness, and can this change?

i want them to come out and express themselves, *be* themselves, but no one will. they're always in the background, and i'm never sure if they're there or if it's just me. i bought some toys for corey to play with (my 4 or 6 year old, i can't tell), and he really wants to play with them, but he wont come out and do it himself, and i just feel stupid playing on the floor with army figures and feel like he's not getting the fun out of it he would if he were in control. someone says maybe i'm too afraid to let them out, and that i'm the one in control of them coming. but i really *want* them to come out sooo bad, so i don't know if that's the case. do you think they're the ones in control and just don't want to come out, for whatever reasons? if this is the case, i think they need to realize that it would help out so much and progress would be made if SOMEONE, ANYONE would come out completely, without me here at all.

i don't know where this whole post was going, i always lose track when i'm typing something like this.

another question that just popped into my head... is it possible that others could be fronting sometimes and i just don't know it? the reason why i think i'm always the one fronting is because i never experience lost time or anything like that, and if someone else were fronting instead of me, wouldn't i not remember that days events and whatnot? ugh, i just confused myself so much more and i don't know what to think. it really bothers me that i never know who i am. i've tried manual journaling, but nothing much came out of that; the one entry that was by someone else, i was co-conscious while she was writing, and i ended up scratching the whole thing out because i thought it was all in my head and was absurd.

sorry this post is so scatterbrained, i wish i could be more articulate. basically, any thoughts on this (on ANYTHING) would be appreciated, whether you think it's entirely relevant or not. i'll take any information i can get... my mind is like a sponge whose thirst is never quite quenched, so no information or personal anecdotes are ever extraneous to me.

i have alot more questions on the subject of multiplicity, but i can't remember what right now... so i hope no one minds me posting again sometime soon when another question comes to mind :)

Comments

[perse.livejournal.com]

If you want to coax a little out, you have to convince them that it is entirely *safe* for them to come out. They have to believe you. So if you buy them toys, and then you sit on the floor with the toys and feel frustrated, that doesn't feel safe, it feels more like a trap. If you sit with the toys and don't get annoyed and talk to him inside your head, reassure him that it is okay, kind of like imagine yourself holding him in your lap or something else comforting so that he can do something in the body but still feel safe. I have found that sometimes artwork is easier to get into, because I can start as an adult and then transition to little without thinking about it so hard. But you need to block out time for that, and you need to make sure you won't be disturbed.

If you are the one consistently front, chances are that's because everyone wants you to be, particularly as it seems you are more than willing to let others share time. If *you* want them to come out, you've got to convince them it's safe to do so.

As for losing time, just because "you" remember everything doesn't mean you're always fronting, at least I don't find that to be a good indicator. Someone else could be keeping track of what's going on and filling you in when you need to (or try to) remember.

[rusted-love.livejournal.com]

thanks, i'll try harder with the little... i think i get frustrated too easily and give up, but i'll try to put aside some time and REALLY try, letting him (or any of them) know it's really safe.

[kao-no-san.livejournal.com]

We often co-front, though there are certain members who will never co-front together.. Usually one helps act as a filter. Like Silvaren acts to keep Blood calm and Blood acts as the voice for Silvaren since she doesn't talk, more like just thinks in images.
The is also a close group in the system, a set of twins and thier brother. They often work together to front. If one fronts, the others are always watching and chiming in. Jesse is the only one who will front fully on her own, but Orin usually takes over for her after awhile.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

You can be multiple without having DID, and a lot of people are. Check out Astraea's Web (http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/) for more information and resources.

"it's always co-conscious, and i'm always still here."

Ummm... I think that's more the rule than the exception, hon. I'm "always still here" too - hey, where would I go? - we're all always here together, no matter who's got the helm. I don't always pay that much attention when one of my brothers is up, but I can if I want to; we don't shut each other out.

"the reason why i think i'm always the one fronting is because i never experience lost time or anything like that, and if someone else were fronting instead of me, wouldn't i not remember that days events and whatnot?"

Nope. That's a myth. A lot of people don't experience lost time or memory lapses.The only time I ever did was many years ago, when my one brother would get so scared and upset that I don't think he knew what he was doing either, and probably didn't remember it too clearly afterward.

"i've tried manual journaling, but nothing much came out of that; the one entry that was by someone else, i was co-conscious while she was writing, and i ended up scratching the whole thing out because i thought it was all in my head and was absurd."

That doesn't sound real encouraging to the writer, to have stuff scratched out because you saw it written. A thing to remember: it's her head too. LOL, my 'brother duathir actually described me that way on his Lj once: "she is the voice in my head". Well, actually we're the voices in each others' heads, and his twin (who rarely speaks) is the silence in both our heads.

Keeping journals is kind of a delicate balance between openness and privacy. There are a lot of times when I could say some things about duathir, especially concerning certain issues on which we disagree, but I don't, because I respect his wishes. There are certainly times he could say things about me that I wouldn't like, but he doesn't, out of respect. It's possible for us to not 'read over each others' shoulders', but it takes a deliberate effort.

"do you think they're the ones in control and just don't want to come out, for whatever reasons? if this is the case, i think they need to realize that it would help out so much and progress would be made if SOMEONE, ANYONE would come out completely, without me here at all."

Okay... WHY would it help? What progress would be made? I went and checked out your journal, by the way, and noted this entry (http://www.livejournal.com/users/rusted_love/16681.html#cutid1) - it seems pretty obvious that the person who wrote that entry isn't the same person who wrote this one (http://www.livejournal.com/users/rusted_love/18977.html?mode=reply). However, I'm getting the impression that you think someone else can just "come out and take over" to clean up the mess you've made. I hate to tell you, but it doesn't work that way. Others of your House can advise you not to do stupid, reckless, dangerous things, but they can't force you to not do them.

The other folk of your House may not be coming forward because of what you've been doing to the body. Seriously, you're asking a 4-to-6 year old to live in a body that's been drunk all the time and shooting up street drugs? You might be used to it, but the others probably aren't, and understandably may not want to subject themselves to that.

It's as perse says; if you want the others to come out, you've got to make it safe for them to do so. A toxic body isn't safe. An expectation that they fix everything for you isn't safe. And wanting them to come out in order to prove their existence to other people (your mother, your friends, your shrink, whoever) isn't safe either.

Anyway, I wish all of you the best of luck, and hope you get things worked out.

[rusted-love.livejournal.com]

man, i just spent forever typing a response, but it's too long. i'm posting it in my journal, so anyone who wishes to read it can.

[asrai-d.livejournal.com]

that's how we are. occassionaly someone comes out but i never lose front. i still have days when i wonder "is it all real?". but they are still there, just quieter.

we've learned to be this way.

This sounds familiar...

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Sounds like me about 17 years ago. Like, "I can't be multiple because I'm not like in the books". I listed all the reasons time and again. But the sense of other people being present, and the things "I" said, did and wrote that were different from my usual, had always been there, had been there since birth, and did not go away.

So you got stuck at the front, and it might take a bit of doing to push you back from it. This happened with me, and happens in a lot of systems. Having a front-runner who is always there, no matter who else is there, is a damn good thing to have in this world that doesn't accept people who talk or act differently.

There is also this lost time and memory business. Multiplicity has nothing to do with memory or amnesia. Many systems have some form of continuous awareness or common knowledge resource that anyone in the group can access. Ours seems to have come about naturally, but others set one up consciously and improve it through practice.

We've been able to co-run and be co-present from the beginning; and it isn't always such a marvellous thing, as you've found out. Being able to have two or more people at front at once was something the books didn't talk about, and so made me think I was not multiple. That's one thing I thank Truddi Chase for; her description of co-running (although she didn't call it that).

Plus that damn common knowledge thing makes it really hard to, like, buy presents for someone else in the group and hide them as a surprise. We have to practice not being aware. Some systems really do lack continuity though; we know of two systems that fit that description, and they do very well in life and work by leaving notes for each other.

And never mind the dissociation jazz; thanks to Cornelia Wilbur, that word now has an entirely different meaning from its original one, and it is now mostly irrelevant to the multiple experience, although they'd like you to believe it does. It's an example of how psychology is a soft science... things aren't carved in stone, but they'd like you to believe they are.

My advice would be, get to know and respect the other people. The books don't tell it like it really is. And I know this may be hard, but like elenbarathi said, don't scratch out or tear up things that other people wrote. Read it carefully and don't discount it as things like "just my own mind playing tricks on me." Respect it as written by someone else ... respect that person.

Good luck!

[kuponutmalt.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I'm the same way. The insiders aren't really static (and neither am I...), always splitting and merging and becoming other people, but none of them are really interested in fronting. Sometimes they'll tell me to type something for them or chat a bit, but it's like they think interacting with the "real" world is below them. Although I'm not the first ever frontrunner, I've never left the front since I was birthed into it, so we're in practically identical predicaments. Sorry I don't have any advice, though.