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multiplicity_archivesPat Stubbs of MAH has chosen to piss me off. Not only am I, as an empowered multi, not REALLY multi, I'm also making up my Aspergers.
I'm not sure what the bug up Pat's ass is, but it seems to boil down to the fact that we unapologetic multiples aren't suffering enough, due to a lack of appropriate therapy. She outlines this in her preciously named blog, "pulses of plurality."
And that is my problem or your problem, how? The idea is difficult for some people to accept, Colin Ross being the primary example of that. Nonetheless, in my experience, that is the case. I am multi, there are many people of various origins here and I have neither the right - nor the arrogance - to try to exterminate them.
Gee, whatever the reason they are multiple, don't you think that it's the sort of difference that might freak people out if it's not explained? Or you could think of it - as I do - as a litmus test. Which, in case you hadn't guessed - Pat flunks.
Apparently I'm very disturbed about this - aspie thing, not very clear about my emotional state really - because I just finished a long, long post to Graphictruth Forums about all of this. Although I did want something on the record here - as Pat points sneeringly to my LJ.
But she picks on us "self-invented multiples" as if we were out to discredit her entire therapy-and-whining centered lifestyle. And she's not going to LET us define her reality - or anyone elses. That's HER job!
Double standard, or just Revealed Truth?
It's apparently revealed truth. Because when anyone disagrees with her that multiplicity is a horrible disorder that must be cured, that it is something one suffers from or it's not really multiplicity... well, she freaks out and gets abusive.
Actually, Pat, we come to give it. Evidence that by working a lot LESS hard, one can funtion a lot better than you do. For instance, we don't turn into screaming abusive perps when contradicted. Nor do we just whimper and run away. We just call your ass on your behavior - which is what members of a community do for one another.
Which is what that person did - and why, I imagine, Pat doesn't include a link to the full context, so she gets the last word.
But here it is... for posterity's sake:
Community. It ain't who's in it. It's who ain't!
I'm not sure what the bug up Pat's ass is, but it seems to boil down to the fact that we unapologetic multiples aren't suffering enough, due to a lack of appropriate therapy. She outlines this in her preciously named blog, "pulses of plurality."
The primary messages given by the non-disordered multiples (hereafter called the self-invented multiple) is that multiple personality is not a disorder and the anti-survivor message that multiplicity is natural and not caused by abuse. Some of these self-invented multiples hold tenaciously to the label multiple while going to great lengths to say it's not a disorder. Some self-invented multiples state they are just creative and keep inventing alters in their mind. That by the way, that isn't multiplicity, rather it's called a vivid imagination.
The sad truth is folks with vivid imaginations, and natural multiplicity (self-invented multiples) make life harder for those of who are sincerely trying to heal. There is enough controversy surrounding multiplicity, particularly in the medical community without those who profess to have vivid imaginations. You see it's easier for some professionals to believe that multiplicity is made up -- someone with a vivid imagination than to believe it's real.
And that is my problem or your problem, how? The idea is difficult for some people to accept, Colin Ross being the primary example of that. Nonetheless, in my experience, that is the case. I am multi, there are many people of various origins here and I have neither the right - nor the arrogance - to try to exterminate them.
I suppose a healthy imagination is important but hundreds of imaginary friends is a bit much for anyone. Some of these self-invented multiples go as far as saying they weren't abused or traumatized and were born multiple. I wonder why such a healthy "non disordered" person would feel the need to distinguish themselves this way if not for attention. The fact is if those professing no abuse or trauma would not have to worry about being diagnosed anything except perhaps histrionic.
Gee, whatever the reason they are multiple, don't you think that it's the sort of difference that might freak people out if it's not explained? Or you could think of it - as I do - as a litmus test. Which, in case you hadn't guessed - Pat flunks.
Apparently I'm very disturbed about this - aspie thing, not very clear about my emotional state really - because I just finished a long, long post to Graphictruth Forums about all of this. Although I did want something on the record here - as Pat points sneeringly to my LJ.
But she picks on us "self-invented multiples" as if we were out to discredit her entire therapy-and-whining centered lifestyle. And she's not going to LET us define her reality - or anyone elses. That's HER job!
I figure to each his own for the most part. However, when information is misleading I feel the need to speak out. The self invented multiples would have us believe that multiplicity is natural and occurs at birth. According to Sidran.org, "It is now understood that these conditions (MPD/DID) can be common effects of severe trauma in early childhood, most typically extreme, repeated physical, sexual, and/or emotional abuse." Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that therapists have all the answers. Also I have never found solace in reading books written by other multiples explaining their perceptions about their system. I am not misguided, or feeble minded and have never looked to anyone or anything else including a book to define "my" reality.
Double standard, or just Revealed Truth?
It's apparently revealed truth. Because when anyone disagrees with her that multiplicity is a horrible disorder that must be cured, that it is something one suffers from or it's not really multiplicity... well, she freaks out and gets abusive.
Taking empowered as a word and equating it with the most bizarre things possible, walk-ins and natural multiplicity could not be more damaging for the survivor community. So here's my message to these so called empowered multiples, stay the fuck away from the rest of the of the real multiples, since you aren't sick or disabled. You purport to not need doctors, support or help. So stick with your own kind and diagnose each other. We don't want to catch what you "don't" have. And for gawds sake, since you aren't disordered -- stop your fucking bitching and whining! Afterall, you have nothing to complain about since you don't subscribe to the medical model, or the disordered perspective. Since you have nothing but order in your freaking lives, what gives you the audacity to show up for "support" at the very place you purport is nothing but a bunch of disordered multiples. It must be so confusing to criticize an entire group and then go there to those very people for support and wonder why they don't agree with you. Take your head out of your ass people. This isn't a huge jump in logic. It's a matter of common sense.
Actually, Pat, we come to give it. Evidence that by working a lot LESS hard, one can funtion a lot better than you do. For instance, we don't turn into screaming abusive perps when contradicted. Nor do we just whimper and run away. We just call your ass on your behavior - which is what members of a community do for one another.
Which is what that person did - and why, I imagine, Pat doesn't include a link to the full context, so she gets the last word.
But here it is... for posterity's sake:
So what because I have never been diagnosed I have no right to call myself multiple?
Because I don't treat doctors like gods who can define my reality I am delusional?
We were aware of a lot of each other before we got into therapy, we learnt for ourselves how to handle our multiplicity, how to work together as a collective, and how to live a good life, to achieve a number of life goals and continue working on others. It was only when we started to believe that we had to be like the professionals said things shoudl be that problems started to occur, when we were told quite adamantly by professionals and other multiples that we had to behave in a certain way, follow their rules did the dysfunction hit us.
I actually have been diagnosed with dissociative disorders, in particular derealisation and depersonalisation which is separate and distinct from our multiplicity. We learn to live with that, we have learned ways to ground ourselves when the world fades around us. We are currently working on our trauma issues, the disorders we have that need resolved, anxiety, ptsd, cognitive distortions. We have a great therapist who has acknowledged that these things, with the levels of trauma we have will never be cured, that we will never be able to go back and fix it all. It would be like asking a double amputee to grow their legs back, but we can learn and are learning to find new skills to learn new ways that will lead us to a complete and fulfilling life, just not the normality that is proclaimed as being the "only right way".
DID is not even used as a diagnosis in New Zealand, it is almost an exclusively american diagnostic label. I consider myself multiple, because there is more than one person here. We have worked hard on developing high levels of communication and cooperation. We are at no more risk of retraumatisation that anyone purely based on our multiplicity. Our levels of risk about retraumatisation comes from the original trauma and like I said that is the reasons we are in therapy, to work on our trauma issues.
Actually now that I have gotten to this point of the response I can see that this is yet another reason why it is probably unbeneficial that I stay with this forum. It isn't just this philosphy of multiplicity as a disorder and doctors as all knowing. It's been coming for a while actually, the knowledge this is not a place I will ever fit or belong. So in saying that I wish you all well and thank you for my time amongst you.
Shire
Community. It ain't who's in it. It's who ain't!
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no subject
Date: 2005-02-18 11:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:12 am (UTC)But it's not like he's trying to pass it off as his own. You should consider it as publicity. 'Course, in this context it's pretty negative, but any publicity is good, right?
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:21 am (UTC)I actually don't see what I wrote as negative, although I suppose a case can be made for that since I gave up and left instead of stuck around and tried to fight to have my point of view heard
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Date: 2005-02-19 12:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 06:44 pm (UTC)Pat Stubbs Passing Herself Off As "Expert" On Multiplicity
Date: 2006-09-25 06:28 pm (UTC)I found this site when searching for multiplicity - sites with accurate information for my significant other. I read some posts that interested me and pissed me off somewhat. These are the comments about a Pat Stubbs and her view of multiplicity - that if we do not claim to childhood abuse there is no way that we are dissociative - that we are "faking it". I was surprised when I did further research, found her m-a-h.net site, and found out that she is not a health professional (even says so on her site) but that she does as in fact pass herself off as an "expert" on multiplicity. Her site espouses her limited view on multiplicity; the site is no more than a business to make a living off of people who join the site; and those dupes who trade "promoting" each others sites - to make more money --- and at the same time slamming those of us who do not agree with her limited views.
I found her on the new aboutus.org site and rated her site along with 3 other reviews - one looked to be from Pat Stubbs herself. Well woulnd't you know it they removed all the negative site reviews from the site and only left what looks to be Pat Stubbs review of her own site.
I think that everyone who is as pissed off as I am about this so called "expert" passing herself and her site off as "experts" should go to aboutus.org and rate her site. If you think she's doing a good job say so - if not you certainly owe it to all the multiples in the world to call her out on herself.
Re: Pat Stubbs Passing Herself Off As "Expert" On Multiplicity
Date: 2006-09-25 08:45 pm (UTC)IMHO, YMMV, ETC.
Re: Pat Stubbs Passing Herself Off As "Expert" On Multiplicity
Date: 2006-09-25 11:51 pm (UTC)You and your spouse are welcome on this community. There aren't really protocols as such; each person says their piece, perhaps asks questions, and then others may or may not respond. Introductions are fine, but are not required.
There are links on the info page (http://community.livejournal.com/multiplicity/profile) that may be of help in understanding where some of the membership (ourselves included) are coming from, although the community is open to all views and types of plurality. Again, thank you.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 04:53 pm (UTC)um...yeah...
Date: 2005-02-19 06:15 pm (UTC)And yes, was out in public, I'd never join that site.
Re: um...yeah...
Date: 2005-02-19 07:02 pm (UTC)Re: um...yeah...
Date: 2005-02-19 07:43 pm (UTC)and too tangled to get it fixed right now. Will try to get back to it.
OT: Music related:
http://thirdwave.num.com/directory.asp?cat=11&do=new
They WANT you to steal their music and play it!
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:38 am (UTC)That woman has had a bug up her ass about it for years. Back in 2000 or so when the Multigardens site was still running, she came into the IRC channel asking for 'proof' that multiplicity could occur naturally. She kept harping on this idea that the 'symptoms' could be caused by a brain tumour, which I've yet to see her show documentation for in any way, shape or form. She got so adamant about this that she decided to write to the ISSD about it, although I don't know if she received any response, and back in 2001 a suspicious article appeared on the MAH site telling non-disordered multiples that 'if anybody with DID is harmed because of you, I will report you to the proper authorities' and to 'watch your asses.' (^Ruka wrote a pretty freaking hilarious response to that, which I still have to convince him to post on our website.) Although the article was signed by someone calling themselves "John P," we suspected it was Pat herself or someone in her household.
But yeah, she's been yelping about this for years-- people get sick of arguing with her because she won't take their points, and when they get frustrated and quit, she takes this as proof that they 'couldn't counter her arguments' (classic troll behaviour, fwiw). I don't really know what the personal threat to her is, but even people who think those of us who function okay are 'in denial' don't seem to be as strident about it as she is.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:50 am (UTC)I really wish people would make a distinction there. >__
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 12:52 am (UTC)For many multiples with a trauma background, the multiplicity is perceived one of the factors that proves that Something Awful Happened. And the fact that they are in therapy trying to reclaim their "authentic" pre-abuse selves is part of their courage in facing that. Now I am not saying that I agree with this point of view - but it's a strong one. In their perception, if someone comes along and says "hey I'm multiple and nothing happened to me," they are essentially removing one of the reasons for their legitimate pain and struggle.
And that's hard, if someone *is* in that vulnerable place, multiple or not. However the attitude /is/ very negating.
On the other side of the fence, at times some natural multiples have confused "natural" with "empowered" (one is a question of origin, the other a question of ways to live) and they /have/ implied that a trauma-originated system is somewhat pathetic, or that therapy is useless - neither of which has to be true. One can have natural but disordered multiples, or trauma-originated and empowered multiples, or any combination thereof.
So - I think she was pretty awful, but I think there is a context and the bitterness comes out of that. But it does suck.
Shandra
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 02:07 am (UTC)i have to admit, it's a bit sore to read/hear of those who claim multiplicity is quite possibile aside from trauma - but knowing of all the fluidities that abound in humanity - gender (transgender/genderqueer/gender ambiguity/androgyny, etc.) and sexuality (gay, straight, bi, queer, a-sexual, poly-sexual, etc.) to name a few....I have to think that the human spirit is capable of anything, so I can't negate those that would argue contrary to my existance.
We all share a unique gift - a sort of magic, really, and whether it's because we've been through horrible repetative traumatic abuse or because we just are what we are - so be it.
It's a twinge in my pride but it's not my place to judge someone else's identification (or someones elses) because I don't complete understand them. That's intolerant.
This Pat person sounds like she just needs a good lesson in tolerance. I'm sure she expects it of others to her, she should damn well return the favor.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 04:00 am (UTC)We are very honoured to know some systems who are fine and doing well, who weren't multiple until childhood abuse either caused them to split one soul into many, or to open a Gateway to another world.
We've written several things in our FAQ and glossary about what empowerment is and should be. I hope we are helping to clear up some of the confusion with these statements.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 04:11 pm (UTC)Shandra
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 03:47 pm (UTC)The idea of viewing poor inner communication and internal disorder as a problem instead of viewing being multiple as a problem works very well for us. :)
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 03:07 am (UTC)Dammit. Get out of my country. Haha. We got diagnosed I think. I can't remember. At least I know our therapist accepts it.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 03:19 am (UTC)Shire
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 03:22 am (UTC)I like your picture.
Dempsey
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 03:27 am (UTC)There are a range of dissociative disorders, I know I have dissociative issues, many of us here do, although like I said in the letter that was quoted to me that's different from my multiplicity.
Dissociation isn't all that well known in NZ I have found. They don't make "Like Minds" adverts about people who dissociate disorderedly It took me months of research to find out that I had depersonalisation, when I tried to talk about it with therapists and such I just got blank vague looks, but then again I am use to those sort of looks.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 03:30 am (UTC)Dempsey
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 07:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 03:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 05:52 am (UTC)One of the reasons she came into the #multigardens IRC on that night
The following website talks about the fraud allegations, and explains what the HIP website was really about. Members of this community who are or were members of asarian.org may or may not be surprised by its contents.
http://www.12stepforums.net/hipexposed/
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 07:06 am (UTC)If we're all "imaginary friends" and the creations of someone with a very active imagination, she has to tell us which of us is the real person and which of us are imaginary, since we don't have a host or central person who's at front most of the time.
Also, if the imaginary friends decide they don't like being imaginary, can they deport the real person and establish someone else as the new real person? According to Ms. Stubbs' theories, this has happened in our system several times. ;)
no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 07:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 07:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-19 03:35 pm (UTC)Allegations against the late Lady Qwillpen
Date: 2005-02-19 04:49 pm (UTC)http://home.ec.rr.com/spiritofaa/index.html (Same page as above but minus annoying popup)
Ruth Parris (Qwillpen) (http://home.ec.rr.com/spiritofaa/parris.html)
What laws were allegedly broken? (http://www.12stepforums.net/hipexposed/laws.html)
I know nothing of the current status of the investigation.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-21 01:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-21 02:34 pm (UTC)I wouldn't say Pat Stubbs is a fraud; she's a survivor with strong views about what multiplicity is and is not.
But fortunately no one person gets to define everyone else's experience. I think many if not most multiples have times when they're sensitive to outside criticism or negating remarks, but unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) learning to deal with them is pretty essential.
The "imaginary friend" argument has always struck me as rather silly because most multiples wish like hell they could make their "imaginary friends" do what they want. :-)
And the "attention getting" argument is also somewhat silly although I think there's a kernel of truth. There are a few, rare people who want to be special and who may feign multiplicity, but the vast majority of both multiples and err - feigned (?) multiples - will probably find that the attention is often negative and unhelpful.
So really there's not a lot of payoff in it, and when people say that someone's pretending to be multiple to get attention I usually find it's pretty easy to ask (mildly) what attention that would be? Because most of us are not raking in the big bucks for being non-singletype. :-)
For the actual fraud involving Qwillpen, this is one of the problems I /personally/ have with online "support" groups; people get pretty enmeshed in trying to help each other and these kinds of exploitations can happen. This is one reason that I prefer discussion groups that offer experience but don't try to make-things-okay for people. What disturbs me in the whole thing (besides the fraud which, let's face it, is shitty behaviour) is that no one seems to have said "well why were we sending this woman hundreds of dollars to pay her phone bill anyway?"
Not to blame the victims; they have a perfectly valid reason to be angry - but - but - but - have some sense here, people, too.
Anyways, mini Monday rant.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-21 03:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-21 03:38 pm (UTC)I believe that at this time there isn't any such linklist. At this point, I'd merely advise you to avoid Pat's "Multiplicity, Abuse and Healing" (m-a-h.net) website, and any forums, communities or online journals she runs or frequents. I'd also caution you about anything to do with a group called Stephanie's Community.
She is not "a fraud" as such; allegations of fraud have been brought against her, but I do not doubt that she is sincere about her abuse history and multiplicity. She has a huge investment in same, and an apparent need to take personally everything that is said online about multiples. The concepts discussed on websites like Shaytar (http://www.bentspoons.com/Shaytar/), Collective Phenomenon (http://www.dreamshore.net/amorpha/) or the Layman's Guide (http://www.karitas.net/blackbirds/layman) do not negate her reality, but her self-identity is based on such unstable foundations that she assumes that they do.
Ms Stubbs' ability to spell and punctuate, plus the smoothly designed look of her websites, have caused people other than yourselves to believe she's a mental health professional. I believe it's her intention to create that impression deliberately.
Remarks such as "take your head out of your ass" and "stop your fucking bitching and whining" (quoted in Mr King's narration, above) usually indicate that the writer is not a mental health professional, unless perhaps one who uses the outmoded confrontational approach of the 1950s. Such remarks merely lower the tone of the argument, which is why I would choose not to use them -- much as I'd like to -- in responding to Ms Stubbs, were I ever to waste my time in such a futile manner.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-21 10:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-22 07:14 am (UTC)In general, mental health professionals aren't that interested in multiplicity any more; in fact, some are not permitted by their clinics or academic superiors to discuss it. They certainly are not inclined or encouraged to set up webpages about it. The one exception is Ralph Allison, about whom the less said the better.
no subject
Date: 2005-02-22 11:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-27 04:25 pm (UTC)For the record
Date: 2005-02-23 08:03 pm (UTC)As far as I am aware, this was not a deliberate attempt on Pat's part to confuse or deceive anyone. She has run that website since 1998, and I believe the MAH took that name in late '99 or early 2000.
New here
Date: 2005-03-03 09:35 am (UTC)http://savannahangel.blogspot.com/
I have read alot of the post that the members here have had to say and agree with some and not others. But would love to talk to all that would like to talk to us.
There was one that I need to comment on... the ones about if MPD/DID is "natural" or not.
I think we are born with the ability to do what ever we want. The mind is a very powerful tool that we use everyday. And there was a few people down on MPD/DID cause they were what we are. Why???? It is not a bad thing. God made us this way for a reason and we went threw the things we have for a reason. We need to make the best of it. People call up friends and loved ones ie. Mom and Dad. To help when they are going threw something that is very upsetting to them. We are just special people we dont have to run up phone bills. We make our own loved ones in our heads. This is a good thing, we dont have to wait when they are off work, or not busy with the kids, or the life parnter. They are with us at all times. I take confort in haveing mine. My therapist said that she could " get rid of" them. WHY??? They are a part of me. A part that for what ever reason I needed. Dont get me wrong I know this is not the norm. But does it make it wrong? I dont think so just differnt. We make "alter" cause there is something in our life that we SO GREAT that it took more than one to deal with.Sometimes out of shook, sometimes out of emotions, good or bad. But that is ok. I have talked with alot of MPD/DID online and a few in person and you know what? We are normal people with the same problems as others. Just there is more of us inside and that means more problems and more ways to get hurt or loved. If I on way off base here please let me know. But God loves us and I love each other you for the person you are even if I dont like you. And PLEASE dont get me wrong I am not a bible banger. But i do belive in God and he is great and an inportant part of my life. I also live in the real world and this is the year 2005. So screw who ever dont want to take time to know us. It is their lose not ours.
Love to you and your System from me and mine.
We 4
Pat Stubbs Passing Herself Off As "Expert" On Multiplicity
Date: 2006-09-25 06:27 pm (UTC)I found this site when searching for multiplicity - sites with accurate information for my significant other. I read some posts that interested me and pissed me off somewhat. These are the comments about a Pat Stubbs and her view of multiplicity - that if we do not claim to childhood abuse there is no way that we are dissociative - that we are "faking it". I was surprised when I did further research, found her m-a-h.net site, and found out that she is not a health professional (even says so on her site) but that she does as in fact pass herself off as an "expert" on multiplicity. Her site espouses her limited view on multiplicity; the site is no more than a business to make a living off of people who join the site; and those dupes who trade "promoting" each others sites - to make more money --- and at the same time slamming those of us who do not agree with her limited views.
I found her on the new aboutus.org site and rated her site along with 3 other reviews - one looked to be from Pat Stubbs herself. Well woulnd't you know it they removed all the negative site reviews from the site and only left what looks to be Pat Stubbs review of her own site.
I think that everyone who is as pissed off as I am about this so called "expert" passing herself and her site off as "experts" should go to aboutus.org and rate her site. If you think she's doing a good job say so - if not you certainly owe it to all the multiples in the world to call her out on herself.