(no subject)

[hexpiritus.livejournal.com]

My girlfriend is a multiple-- so am I, but that's a different situation entirely and one that I haven't come here to discuss... yet. (Heh.)

She's rather shy sometimes, and I'm a regular lurker on this community, so I was hoping I could post this question here. This summer, the beings inside her mind (collectively called the Pentacle) attempted integration. Currently, we have reason to believe that the attempt has failed. This integration was not prompted by any therapist but was a conclusion that was reached by a majority of them. I say majority because apparently one of the Pentacle was not consulted as to her opinion, the decision was foisted on her by the other four, and the integration was therefore more forced than harmonized. It took this long to figure out because their internal communication isn't exactly... the best. The Host is human, and the other four are Otherkin: a demon, a fae, a wolf, and a phoenix. Because of this, they all have difficulty understanding each other. The demoness particularly seems to create conflict and misunderstanding within the Pentacle, and was the being who had been forced by the other four.

I myself am neutral on the integration controversy, since we can integrate at will for short periods of time when a situation calls for it. However, most of the Pentacle believe that integration is their ultimate longterm goal. I've suggested that they need to work on communication, but with their different backgrounds, goals, and not to mention species divide, they're finding this kind of difficult. We've been attempting to mediate between some of them, as some of us get along with some of them. It's our opinion that they need to concentrate on opening a channel of communication, or appoint one being in the Pentacle to understand and mediate between the rest so that the decisions won't be a matter of force, but a matter of general accord.

Do any of you have any other suggestions, please? I'm only experienced in dealing with my own internal problems, and this is the first time I've ever dated another out multiple.

Thank you for reading.

Comments

Cooperation

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

In order for there to be successful cooperation, which appears to be required for their longterm goal, they need to develop some form of communication between them. It doesn't have to be "verbal", but some form of getting them to convey ideas and messages to each other.

If they come from different backgrounds, it will likely be hard for them not to miscommunicate. So one of the first steps to starting a dialog, aside from figuring out the gross matter of the conveyance method, will be to get them to understand where each other comes from. Perhaps somehow having them convey their backgrounds to each other meaningfully will aid in their mutual understanding of each others motivations. This would go a long way to help with the inevitable miscommunications that occur in people with different backgrounds.

Ideas: convince them to pontificate on their philosophy and background on whatever's handy, paper, audio cassette, video cassette, LJ, napkin. Have others in their system see it. Explain to them the importance of not just hearing, as it were, but listening to each other.

Also, other pressing matters of communication can be handled that way. "PS: I withdrew $100 dollars from the checking account, hope you don't mind."

In the meantime, if you're willing, you may want to consider being a mediator between them. It's a huge responsibility however, that shouldn't be abused, and is easy to do so unintentionally.

--Me/Us/Her (variably)

[azraile.livejournal.com]

I would sugest talking with a open minded therapest for help...

and yes..... from what kitsu has told me intigration of ANY sort on ANY level needs to be 100% willing AND for least the same general ressons..... or things will go wrong and VERY bad things could happen

It's not something that should be done with out a lot of preperation...

I would sugest they not try it again untill there all 100% sure there ready for it.... and all in agreance on why they are doing it and the fact they do WHANT to do it more than anything

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

As you're saying, as long as there are any holdouts within the group, successful long-term or short-term integration isn't likely.

Perhaps the group might examine and discuss some of the reasons they want to integrate.

spookshow_girl is absolutely right about the communication, they have to be able to explain it to the one holdout in terms that she will understand. They will need to convince her that integration is to her personal advantage.

A therapist is likely to tell the group that they are not really separate persons, but that they are all [body name] in different, perhaps mythologised aspects. Do they think of themselves this way?

[ironhammer.livejournal.com]

Is there effectively a difference?

I'm constantly thrown back and forth between my belief in science and my belief in the divine. Are the Gods and Goddesses real or are they simply mind constructs? Are the parts of me just compartmentalized thinking, or are they real, do they have souls?

I don't know, and I cannot give myself the faith to keep to one way or the other.

The best I can offer is that in the end, either way is essentially different ways of trying to state the same thing. That and one of Murphy's Rules of Combat, "If it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid."

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Those are metaphysical questions, with which many people have struggled who have neither soulbonds nor multiple selves.

I've had the same questions all my life and have tentatively concluded this: One can only proceed from one's own experience. Science grants us wonderful things, but many have used it to say that anything which cannot be explained is a delusion, a misperception of the mind, a misfiring of neurons. This line of thought liberates us from overly restrictive dogmas, but one quickly finds that the "purely rational" approach to life and reality is equally restrictive.

Occasionally, one comes across a fact which seems to embrace or at least not to negate the existence of an unseen, nonmaterial factor. For instance, it was discovered not too long ago that the part of the brain that processes religious experience is also that which handles the immune system. This could account for many instantaneous, spirituality-related healings such as at Lourdes (which are, often, of immune-system-related problems). This does not imply that spiritual experiences are illusions, only that they have discovered (or think they have discovered) the part of the brain which perceives and processes the event.

As a person in a multiple system, and an outworlder (walk-in) at that, I can tell you that I believe I have a soul. I was certainly raised to believe in the soul's existence as well as its care and feeding, if you will. ;) Faith is often a matter of going by the evidence of one's personal experience. And the spiritual experiences that are of the most value are often the most personal.

Ah, I'm rambling.

[ironhammer.livejournal.com]

Perhaps you're rambling, but it's a ramble I'd like to hear more of.

As for spiritual experiences, I've had many, but it seems I'm incapable of pure belief. Of abandoning my doubt and believing fully.

*sighs and closes his eyes*

The closeest thing I've been able to come up with for a belief system is that all things that are believed are real, and the more believed they are the more "real" they then are.

Or to put it as I heard it once before (don't remember the source), "Is the thought of a Unicorn a real thought?" I think it is, and I think Unicorns are real, even if they aren't physical because they "kick back" when pushed. Maybe I need to read some Jung.

[idianshire.livejournal.com]

I have a friend who is very much the medical model version of multipilicity, one person fragmented into different parts. I jokingly call her Sybil, she usually throws something at me, its all very accepting and friendly. It does seem there is a process of integration going on with her, which is why I brought this up. However this integration isn't some choice, some active process, it is more that the more they all work on talking to each other, accepting each other, and developing as a person/people the barriers that they needed at one time to be there are removing, and with that becomes more communiciation and acceptance, which causes a sort of mushing together. This process is right at the beginning, where it will end up who can tell. They may integrate into one, or they may simply become very fluid. But the point is integration in my opinion will only really work that way, imposed integration, active process of integration anything that makes the process unnatural, I think will collapse, will revert to its original.

As for the difficulty communiciating. Sure being different species can make it difficult but it isn't impossible. When our five tribes started to communicate with each other there were a lot of difficulties, a lot of challenges and more than a few hostile exchanges. But to say, oh we are too different it isn't going to work, isn't going to exactly encourage further attempts. This isn't a world of quick fixes, or at least it wasn't for us.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

I think that the important thing here is why they want to integrate. Do they think it's just something multiples ought to strive for in general? Do they think they'll never be able to work and cooperate as a team? Do they see it as a way to end the communication problems?

As for communication difficulties: There are many different reasons for problems in communication that can occur in-system. Cultural differences among system members can make communication difficult, in the sense that what's polite to one person may be rudeness to another, what's acceptable in one culture may be offputting in another, so negotiating when there are different communication styles going on can be something of a minefield. It's not one that I think is impossible to overcome, though-- people of different cultural, social and language backgrounds, with different goals, regularly do learn to negotiate with each other in the world at large. Granted, the 'different species' phenomenon isn't going on there (that I know of ^_~) but we (we being mostly humans) have communicated successfully with several Otherkin we know. The most important thing is for all parties to be aware of the others' expectations.

Then there are the 'blackout' situations where one person can't remember a thing that someone else did and can't get in contact with them to ask. On this one, we can't give much firsthand advice because we've only had a very few incidents where someone had no memory of doing something that had obviously happened, and no one else had any memories of it either. We know some groups who basically get along through writing to each other in notebooks.

[shandra.livejournal.com]

I thought about this for a while.

I really think that as their partner, it is not your question to ask really. I understand that you want to help and that you have tried to mediate. But I think you are participating in a form of learned helplessness, if you allow that to continue for a long time. They need to learn to communicate directly. Otherwise I don't see how integration could work, ever. As well as their collective life.

I think that if they really want to integrate, it would probably help them out _a lot_ for them to individually come and discuss it with others, where they can see the responses each of them get - and give. Even doing that is almost a guarantee that communication will improve. As long as they read each other's posts.

If not here then a mailing list somewhere.

Good luck to you both.

Shandra

[hexpiritus.livejournal.com]

I suppose, technically, it's not my question to ask, since I'm not the one experiencing the problem. I could have lied and said I was the one undergoing the turmoil, or forced her to post. However, she isn't quite ready to "out" her livejournal for this issue, and has only started using it with a very specific friends only filter to dicuss it with close friends and loved ones. She has requested that I use my own knowledge and resources to garner suggestions, but I find that she's already getting the hang of internally communicating more, and that she only wished for some mediation from me because it not only helped her beings talk to each other, but talk to my own.

If there is something amiss with her not wanting to be part of this community or a mailing list yet, and using myself as a medium to seek suggestions, I wasn't aware of it at the time I made this post. If the different beings come out to individually discuss it with others, does it make a difference whether they are multiples or not, or whether they're people she trusts? Granted, there is validity in asking impartial advice from strangers who don't have the emotional bias that those close to you would have, but I don't see how that's enough to negate the right of her getting me as a proxy to seek suggestions for her issues.

Thanks for your comments.
-Rhees & Erin of the Hex

[shandra.livejournal.com]

Because it's her problem, and if you're communicating for them, that's sort of the same problem they're having but - whatever. Your life, your relationship. :)

[hexpiritus.livejournal.com]

Small steps, small steps. I'll eventually get her on here, but on her own time. First she starts internally, then she can go externally.

[dark-blade.livejournal.com]

Makes sense :)