(no subject)

[thisslideup.livejournal.com]

My therapist finally hit the nail on the head. After about 6 months of trial and error, process of elimination theories (You have problems with your mother, you don't have enough of a social life, you enjoy depression, you're just really imaginative) he finally hit the nail on the head.

A disassociative disorder!

I felt like whapping him upside the head.

He basically decided early on that I was not schizophrenic at all, and, because of that, never gave any of the "serious problem" theories a chance. He completely ignored the fact that I could have even a mild disassociative case.

All of the signs pointed to yes. I've struggled for quite some time now about whether I am a multiple or not (and came to the conclusion that, well, not that much of one, if anything). I often experience most of the symptoms of sleep paralysis, and explain in great detail to him all of my minor out of body experiences (a sensation of being stretched like a Stretch Armstrong doll, or sinking out of my body to about a foot behind myself, or being unable to move my arms or legs at will, or hearing voices and music and seeing things, feeling at a constant distance from the world, forgetting large chunks of my day, separating my emotions into four distinct personalities).

If I were my therapist, I would fire myself for being totally unobservant.

Of course, I totally didn't want to say to him, "hey, look, this is what I have", because I am a lousy teenage girl with a few too many psychology courses under her belt who thinks she knows what's going on and is therefore suspect when she diagnoses herself with something because she could just be faking it.

Or at least, if I were my therapist, that is how I would think, because apparently, it took him until Wednesday (after seeing him at least once, but occasionally several times a week since January).

Uhm, duh.

Has anyone else been especially hesitant about suggesting the correct diagnosis to their therapist for fear of being accused of 'faking' it? How long did it drag on for? Did they ever finally get the picture or did you have to spell it out for them?

~Chedd

Comments

[forever-alone.livejournal.com]

A similar thing happened to me a few years back, though not with multiplicity. I was in therapy, the first session of which involved my parents to be in the room with me. My father of course just had to blurt out "She thinks she has OCD". Which I did, and still do (because frankly there comes a day when you want to know why you have to do everything 4 times in a row and pull your hair out constantly, so you hit the books). My therapist made a little note on her clipboard, and we never spoke of it again. Not even once did she ask if I had any obsessive-compulsive tendencies, she never asked why I thought I had it. The subject just dropped forever.

Damn therapists. What, do they think I'm fucking stupid or I'd fake OCD to get attention? Yeah, looking like a freak when I wipe my hands off every time I touch something REALLY gets me the attention I want. *rolls eyes* For the sake of not going off on a tangent, I'll stop there.

[tigrin.livejournal.com]

I actually went INTO therapy just for suggesting a diagnosis. So from the beginning my therapist knew I had something in mind, and we talked about it a few times but it felt more like she was just entertaining me. I've actually been seeing her since November... so about ten months or so, and we never got anywhere... I got worse, if anything... and there were a lot of times where I wanted to say, hey, do you have ANY idea what's up with me? because she never ever told me any kind of diagnosis. I knew by that point I wasn't multiple but I knew I dissociated and did something like soulbonding, though I didn't know what soulbonding was at the time... finally I went and saw another psychiatrist, and in one session she told me... oh, you have a social anxiety disorder. and now my original therapist is like oh yeah, you do! let's work on it. e____e;;; gee, thanks for wasting all that money to settle on that NOW. when you suggest a diagnosis yourself it seems to be that people just think you're "faking it", because you read about it. *sigh*

[kao-no-san.livejournal.com]

Every therapist I've been to, just says I just have mental instability. I knew that already.. so I stopped going when I turned 18. Stopped all meds as well.

You get that streched felling too? I thought that was just me. Odd.. it's like all my arms and body go really long and rubbery, everything seems distant, warped, but in sharper focus.

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

We as a group, haven't made the suggestion. Our therapist's private practice, though which we got in touch with him, doesn't involve diagnosis as it is generally understood, whatsoever. He is capable of producing them, and is required to in the centers which he often works at, but he isn't fond of the idea. So, to a certain extent, we don't bother bringing it up, at all. Even when it's relevant, which brings up a different issue. We should probably be more honest with him, but frankly, in our experience being too open with our therapists have resulted in more harm than good. It's also generally not the topic at hand, and I definately am not interested in all other work dropped to deal with this. I don't wish to see our work wander off into the wild blue yonder over this.
He's no fool, and has noticed our less hidden switches. Dissociation, not in word, but in description has also come out of his mouth a few times, which was simultateously interesting and annoying. To be honest, although the diagnosis does have it's own merits, we don't find it absolutely necessary for validation. Some people aren't going to fit the neatly into all the criteria they list. There are many possible reasons for this, some of which have to do with the individuals in the system, more than whether or not there is a multiple system present in the first place. The biochemical makeup of the body may also affect things like memory. *shrugs* If you can put someone under and still have them remain conscious and acutely aware of their surroundings, is it possible that this same person may be more inclined to remain partially concious while someone else is out, for example? If this is a biological trait, will everyone in the system share this ability?
This however is not meant to imply that getting a Diagnosis is somehow invalidating in any way, just that it's not required for you to feel valid.
--Me

[pengke.livejournal.com]

Since you're not multiple, you would probably be better off posting to a community that's about dissociation.

That would depend

[devcandy.livejournal.com]

On what they mean by "not that much of one", as that phrase can be used to describe midcontinuum people and some non-traditional multiples who I thought were welcome here.

I also wasn't aware that multiple interested non-multiples weren't welcome here. In this person's case, especially as dissociation is a listed interest on this community.

Arashi

Re: That would depend

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

I thought pengke meant that thisslideup could get more info on non-MP dissociation in such a community, not that he isn't welcome here as well.

I have been against the "dissociation" interest on this community from its inception, although it's true that a few multiples really do fit the classic trauma-dissociation-splitting pattern and feel their people are really non-independent parts of themselves; this community is open to them too. So I can't really say too much about that. Besides, that way we get to talk about the dissociation scam that's being put over on multiple and nonmultiple clients alike right now.

It's subjects like depression, disability, post-traumatic stress disorder, self harm, self injury, suicide etc. that I believe to be genuinely inappropriate on the interest list for this community. These subjects are not very specific to multiples, and should not be automatically associated with being multiple (even the trauma-dissociation-splitting variety).

It also incidentally gives a bad impression to those who don't know anything about multiplicity and come across the community info by chance.

Re: That would depend

[devcandy.livejournal.com]

I thought [info]pengke meant that [info]thisslideup could get more info on non-MP dissociation in such a community, not that he isn't welcome here as well.

Ahh, okay.

I have been against the "dissociation" interest on this community from its inception, although it's true that a few multiples really do fit the classic trauma-dissociation-splitting pattern and feel their people are really non-independent parts of themselves; this community is open to them too. So I can't really say too much about that. Besides, that way we get to talk about the dissociation scam that's being put over on multiple and nonmultiple clients alike right now.

I don't consider dissociative multiples automatically means the people have to be non-independent, or simply "parts". Then again I believe that an object over a period of time can get a "soul", so why not them. If a family heirloom can become a tsukumogami, why can't an entity that was ostensibly "created" as a defense mechanism become a "full fledged person". (I'm somewhat animistic.) I also think that noone has actually discovered where the center of the "self" is, or definitively defined what a "self" means, so, like you, I do have a problem with how the traditional medical profession's views demean many multiples, dissociative and otherwise. Just because it's possibly a construct doesn't mean it doesn't have feelings, and thoughts, and opinions, and hey, if that doesn't mean it has a self, then I don't think a self is required to treat something with respect. Am I making any sense? I realise I'm being a little jumbled and data-dumpish.

There are many scams on this topic, I'm wondering which one/s you are referring to. (IE: I'm lacking context.) There are also semantic games that are played, and semantic games are a nasty one to hinge someone's treatment (in general, and medically) on.

It also incidentally gives a bad impression to those who don't know anything about multiplicity and come across the community info by chance.

If a person can't grasp that "different people are actually different" nor how this should extend to multiplicity, I'm not sure how worth your time they are. I understand your concern, but I fear that a well meaning concern can be harmful to the community at large. I've seen many communities mash themselves into relative oblivion trying to seem nonthreatening to outsiders. It's painful to watch.

I'm being convoluted so I'll stop now. *giggles and blushes*

Arashi

Re: That would depend

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was in a hurry 'cause the repair dude showed up while I was typing and I didn't make some things clear.

I do know that people who start off as split-off parts of one person can become fully independent and realised people. I've seen it, and many of the other things you've talked about, and have heard them described by friends. Just about anything is possible really. I'm trying to acknowledge that some people really do experience their others as non-independent personalities, facets, sides, etc. and really do feel better by integrating them.

I take your point about doing too much to make sure outsiders don't get the wrong view. My concern was as much for people who are new to the idea that they are multiple / newly diagnosed / whatever... many of them know nothing about it and are trying to find out, and they needn't think that such things as suicide and self-harm are a necessary part of being multiple.

*hopes that's coherent, has to scoot to storage*

[thisslideup.livejournal.com]

You probably don't remember, but quite a while ago, I posted in here about my experiences. Everyone pretty much came to the conclusion that I was something like mid-continuum. I didn't mention my 4 "personalities" in here that much because I've already described it before.

Sorry for any confusion, I was just updating.

[hairymonster.livejournal.com]

We went through a round dozen therapists, counsellors, doctors, pyschatrists, pyschologists, neurologists before We got sick of it all and said STOP. Virtually all started with some other "diagnois" and every single one of them came to DID eventually. Mostly We don't care much for "diagnoises"; treating Us as a multiple produced a reasonably functional unit, treating Us as all the other things produced an extremely disfunctional drugged up zombie.

[jinxtigr.livejournal.com]

I like that. Gotta go with what functionally works. All else is mental masturbation (and representatives of the psychiatric community CAN be decent and good people but CAN ALSO be totally mired in mental masturbation, or turn themselves into pill dispensers at the behest of the wealthy pharma industry)
In order to consider what's best for a functional unit one has to figure out what counts as functional. I went for years with the psych industry quite happy to see me negate myself completely and be a robot for doing work, a disposable thing. My mate tir_nan_og (mostly Hannie) saw through that and absolutely refused to consider that functional. They were right, too. The ironic thing is I do better work as a person than as a thing...

[chrisau8r.livejournal.com]

I like my tpist. We told her first session what we knew (multiple, depression) and she's like, oh cool. She's met some of the others and done some reading.

But then I also mentioned two previous experiences I'd had, one with my GP ("Do you ever hear voices?" "Technically, but less like schizophrenia and more like DID." "Okay.") and one where I had a psych eval where she basically talked to me for ages and then decided I had DID and depression and a sleeping problem, well duh.

[kasiawhisper.livejournal.com]

I decided that I don't need a doctor to tell me I'm Multiple. I know myself better than any stranger would.

[saturniakitty.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[ex-kiota.livejournal.com]

O.o Switch therapists, he sounds like an idiot.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

"Has anyone else been especially hesitant about suggesting the correct diagnosis to their therapist for fear of being accused of 'faking' it?"

I don't know about other types of diagnoses, but disclosing to a therapist that you are multiple seems to be a very, very bad idea these days, judging by some of the correspondence we've received. It's an almost sure way to get yourself diagnosed psychotic or schizophrenic, possibly hospitalised and put on thorazine.

A few groups we know who've been in therapy for non-MP-related problems, but wanted the option of having different people present at sessions to help work on it, have disclosed to their therapists and had the great good fortune to be accepted as non-pathological multiples; the only problem was the doctors who were so curious how the group managed itself, etc., that the subject of multiplicity hijacked the sessions, taking focus away from the OCPD or anxiety or whatever it was the group originally came in with.

You were diagnosed not as multiple but as having a dissociative (not disassociative) disorder -- probably DDNOS or DID. Since you yourself don't believe you're multiple but have simply compartmentalized your emotions, this is appropriate. (I agree with pengke's suggestion that you find a community that discusses non-MP dissociation, you might find more information about experiences similar to yours there.)

The "out-of-body" experiences you describe are called derealization in shrink talk, and are present in a number of different conditions, including neurological, so it's wise for your shrink to have proceeded slowly on that. Also, the politics of dissociation diagnoses are extremely complex and full of barbed wire still -- shrinks have gotten fired from their clinics for diagnosing DID because the clinic management's position was "that diagnosis does not exist", despite the fact it's still in the DSM-IV.

Most diagnoses are for the purpose of obtaining a code that can be submitted to your insurance company. Some insurance companies won't pay for therapy related to a DID diagnosis because the overdiagnosis/recovered-memory scandals of the 90s were basically a gigantic insurance fraud (something that is seldom brought out).

Yeh.

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

I'm really not into the idea of our sessions being hijacked that way. If we're having a problems surrounding multiplicity, it's not why we're there, and I'd rather he'd fuck off on that topic unless we ask for help. He claims that's his policy, but he dropped the ball on the poly thing, an issue that really annoyed me because the I wasn't involved in the relationships in question, which meant either I don't front, or I leave him wondering why I'm in relationships with these people in the first place, seeing as I have to concentrate to explain why I'm involved with them.

His stance on diagnosis is that he'll give them to appease insurance companies, and if the client requests it. Otherwise, he won't give a diagnosis. I respect that about him, and aside from the potential amusement factor, I don't think I'll ask him to.

Besides if I get an ASPD diagnosis, it won't be amusing.

--Me

[morgil-lomion.livejournal.com]

Heh, I hadn't heard the insurance fraud bit before. That does make alot of sense though since all it takes is some hypnotic suggestion and the person could be convinced quite easily that they were multiple and had repressed memories and possibly even caused to act and think like one. Then the insurance company, even if they investigated would probably be convinced.

It makes me wonder if a dishonest therapist could actually cause someone to become multiple simply so they could get a diagnosis? That's a scary thought: that a therapist could use hypnosis to actually cause a disorder so that then he could diagnose it and treat it for the insurance money. It would be damn difficult to uncover proof of it too since it might easily require someone else to perform hypnosis to find out. Its a scary thought. I wonder if that would work. I have no real experience with hypnosis to tell me how powerful it can be.

[pengke.livejournal.com]

They wouldn't be multiple but they would think they were; although I suspect the result wouldn't be permanent.

Sometimes it happened unintentionally in the 80's when over-eager shrinks were finding multiples everywhere. All it really takes is confusing the person then convincing them that the different sides of their personality are really alters. You might not even need hypnosis and it would be even easier with people that dissociate because their sense of reality and time continuity can be vague.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

You should read Joan Acocella's Creating Hysteria if you want to learn more about how it really happened. She barely touches on the insurance scam part, but gives details about how the doctors convinced people they were multiple just because they forgot where they put something or talked to themselves "now where did I put my glasses?". (A lot of what is referred to as dissociation today is simple absentmindedness.)

The shrinks were diagnosing MPD primarily in middle-aged people. At this age, getting a little forgetful, starting to remember things (not necessarily traumatic, just things) from when you were very young that you haven't thought of in years, and even numerous changes in eyeglass prescriptions are routine. We are close to fifty, and we have been having this kind of thing happen for several years, but we've been multiple our whole lives.

Correctness is a hairy issue:

[devcandy.livejournal.com]

Not all multiple systems will fit all the criteria for DID, so, in that case, is the diagnosis correct?

It's been my opinion that more often than not, DID, like a few other disorders (such as ones that focus heavily on one's personal beliefs, other examples include gender identity "disorders" and "magical thinking"), have more to do with how you cope with a particular circumstance (in this case, multiplicity) than whether or not you are a multiple, per se.

For more examples of how sloppy all of this is,
see: hoops trans people have to jump through to even get the hormones. Among many medical circles, the only reason they are giving the hormones or the surgery is not because they consider the person a "valid transgendered person" but because they thing that's an easier fix than trying to realign the persons gender identity to the gender of their body. The hoops are there for those whom they don't think it will help. Of course, this has a habit of being arbitrary, and include any other disorder the person may have. The schizophrenic trans who wants to transition, won't be allowed to. I have a problem with this. A big one.

Arashi

Re: Correctness is a hairy issue:

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

Hi, I've been watching this topic for a little while, and I agree with you one hundred percent. I'm a trans person with DID and I'm lucky, because i happen to live in nyc, where they don't give a sh*t.

However, trans people in other places aren't so lucky, and those with a "psychological problem" (it's lack of other language at 1am, sorry for anyone i offended) find themselves in serious trouble sometimes.
Something I've always been afraid of, is some therapist finally saying "Okay, we're going to put you in a facility, because of your gender identity, and the fact that you have DID".

*realized i am ranting*

anyway.
Rick

[morgil-lomion.livejournal.com]

Yes, all of this has problems in the psychological community. I'm currently studying psychology at college and there are many contradictions within the mental health profession itself. Its interesting and frustrating because, while DID versus other diagnoses and with the rare advocate for natural multiplicity are considered a hot topic in the community, in practice therapists tend to either avoid the issue or stick with the standard textbook defenition in the DSM IV.

Its sorta messed up because the people who are more willing to explore new ideas tend to not be involved in therapy... they are either research/experimental psychologists or educators in the field. And even those tend to focus on pathologies rather than generally how things work. It needs to change.

I'll probably write an extensive essay or two on the topic before this year is out for my classes: Abnormal Psychology and Personality Developement. I'll be sure to share them here and submit them to astraea's web.

But anyway... we can relate to the way you've been treated. The first two therapists we ever dealt with largely dismissed our multiplicity because of the fact that we told them about it. Which is stupid. Therapists are supposed to listen and be willing to help you within the context of your life. If they can't do that then in the end they aren't any help.

We got really lucky and managed to find one who really was willing to talk about it without thinking of it as something that needed diagnosing but shortly after that the circumstances in our life caused us to move a couple of hundred miles away and have since removed the chances of our being able to even think about affording therapy for one of the other's depression and gender issues.

Oh well. We're dealing with life and things are going fairly well without therapy. I figure, as long as we can live life without being suicidal or having breakdowns then therapy is unnecessary.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Do they talk about healthy or non-pathological multiplicity at all in your classes?

[morgil-lomion.livejournal.com]

Not yet. We haven't covered that part of the course in "abnormal" yet but I know its coming up and have copies of the discussion topics for that unit. The proffesor I currently have for all 3 units though is very unusual in my mind for the fact that he points out daily in class that "abnormality" is largely a matter of cultural and social perception rather than inherancy and criticizes the pure medical model of mental "disorder" on a daily basis as well.

In at least one of my classes - the one where each of the students was required to sign a confidentiality agreement with the consequence of expulsion if they broke it - I plan on outing and advocating our rights as a group of people. I'm sure it will be quite interesting.

So in the end, whether its planned or not I intend to instigate discussion whether it was planned or not.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Strength and honour to you! That sounds just great.

The prof you currently have might be interested in that Thomas Szasz stuff I talked about before, ask him more about Szasz.

Please write to us at the email address you see on our lj userinfo page.