Multiple Relationships

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

(Slightly longer version posted in my journal)

This is something I’ve been wanting to explain for a while, but I didn’t have permission to explain all of it until last night. There is an entry in a notebook made by Jocelyn almost a year ago before she was aware of us. It was written shortly after the break up of what could have been a serious relationship. It speaks about how it must be to watch someone who cared so deeply for you only a month ago suddenly lose all interest in you and just drift away. She acknowledges that this has been a pattern for her relationships all her life, but she never understood why. It’s simple, really. There was just about always one or more of us co-present with her the whole time, it’s just that there would be a “changing of the guard,” and a person with different tastes would be there. Our emotions and thoughts do bleed over, especially when there’s several of us at or near the front. So all Jocelyn knew was that this guy that she’d thought was wonderful, that she could possibly spend the rest of her life with, almost overnight became someone that she couldn’t even understand why she ever got involved with him.

Joey wants a wild bisexual girl or boy who breaks the rules and isn’t that concerned about long term potential. Jayne wants a stable, sensible, professional man. Jocelyn wants a good Catholic boy that her mother will like. Lia isn’t that picky, but does want a man who believes in commitment. Lisa wants someone who will be a good father figure for her son. Rhiannon isn’t really concerned with a romantic relationship, but appreciates a good friend that she can have deep conversations with until late into the night. Jade is positively opposed to a romantic relationship (or so she claims… ~Anakin), but she loves having someone to compete with, intellectually or otherwise. Anakin wants… Well, quite frankly, Anakin wants a girlfriend, but he figured out long ago that this was never gonna happen, so he just encourages everybody else to like intellectual geek boys that he can at least hang out with and talk to.

As you can guess, finding someone who meets all that criteria is damn near impossible, and that’s just the wishes of the people who have openly objected to some relationship or another for a clearly stated reason!

Once Jocelyn became aware of us, she had high hopes that telling her boyfriend about “her others” would make a big difference, not only because then he would be aware that he was likely having an argument with someone other than her, but also because identifying who has what objection to something does make it easier to get the problem dealt with. So this helped resolve issues for about a month, but with all his curiosity about what it was like being multiple, some things started sounding eerily familiar to him. And then in the middle of a deep conversation about being multiple, Frog stepped forward over his unaware front person and started telling us about several of the other people in his system. {Take a minute for that to sink in.}

Yes, our boyfriend is multiple too. We’ve actively met around a dozen of his people and heard about several others. Does this make for a complicated relationship? HELL YES! Do all of our people get along with all of his? Not at all. We try to minimize contact between the people who don’t get along, but sometimes, they truly need to be out at the same time. (And then there’s that sick, twisted love-hate thing between Jade and Synch. I don’t care how many times they say they can’t stand each other. We’ve seen how many times one of them shows up as soon as he or she realizes that the other one is fronting for the other body! I’m gonna go have a giggle fit now. ~Anakin) (You’re only running away because you know that you’re next! Anakin has a girlfriend! Anakin has a girlfriend! ~Joey) Um, yes. In the boyfriend’s community is a girl named Tia. She doesn’t see Anakin as anything but a boy, he doesn’t see her as anything but a girl, and well, it works! Actually, those two work the hardest to iron out any conflicts that do arise between various members of these two bodies.

So we’ve got 30-40 people living in a small 2 bedroom apartment, but it’s all lease legal, because there’s only 2 physical bodies. I would go through introduction of all of his people, but I’m not as up on their details as I am on the members of this body.

I don't know if this will all work out in the long run, but it seems well worth a shot.

~Opal

~posted here by Anakin

Comments

[egyptian-spider.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what it's like.. We're with another multiple system, and it's really so much easier to be with them than to be with our singleton partner, Jen. We don't love Jen any less, but only one or two of us find Jen romantically interesting - the rest see her as a good friend.

With Destiny, we've found that there's, a lot of times, someone inside them for everyone inside us. It's really strange, and actually quite funny - we've found that as soon as someone here wakes up, a lot of times there's someone in their system that they're drawn to..

*shrugs* We're weird. What can I say??

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

I don’t think you’re weird at all. We’ve likewise found that frequently there’s someone in our boyfriend’s system that matches up perfectly with one of our people. Several people in here even say that the whole reason that the two bodies got involved is that someone saw him switchover before either body was fully aware of being multiple. All our then unaware front person knew was that suddenly her long time male friend just got a lot more interesting, which she interpreted as a crush.

::shrug:: It seems to be working. We’ve held this relationship together for longer than any other except for the one with our biological son’s father, and we wanted out of that one very early but kept it together for as long as we did “for the child’s sake.”

[egyptian-spider.livejournal.com]

Thanks.. It's nice to know I'm not alone, and that sometimes other multiple couples react like this...

I Understand

[gia1977.livejournal.com]

I understand that very well. *embarrassing* My fiance Shannon and I are both multiple and our inner crews get along generally well, but we have our battles along with inner crew members not fond of each other, but we're finding a way to blend it all. You are not alone at all. It is complicated, yes... but it's worth it if you both take the time to seriously realize okay... are we sure we're arguing with the right person? lol. Shannon gets frustrated with my inner crew because we all switch more than we all care to admit.

Re: I Understand

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

Ok my gosh! That’s sounds too familiar! Last time Jade and Synch had a big fight, Anakin stepped over Jade before she got too hostile, and he told Synch who he was and that he wasn’t the person who had picked the fight and he didn’t want to fight, but Synch was so angry that he kept right on yelling at Anakin. That was rough, but I think something got worked out last night. I wish I remembered clearly, but things got worked out over a couple bottles of red wine. ::shrug:: I know there wasn’t any fighting and everybody on both sides seems happy today, so I guess it’s all good!

[saturniakitty.livejournal.com]

My boyfriend is also a multiple, but it's been a couple years since any of his others have fronted, so it really hasn't been a problem with my people getting alone with his people. Generally dating another multiple makes it less complicated, rather than more, since he's alot more understanding, and can play with Puchiko. My last bf before him was a singlet, and Puchiko always wanted to play with him but for some reason he was always extrememly frightened of her, which would lead to him reacting negatively towards her and poor Puchiko just didn't understand, and, well, it never would have worked out =/

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

I am guessing that Puchiko is a child. (Correct me if I’m wrong) We’ve dealt with a really sad 6-7 year old boy who doesn’t talk that lives in our boyfriend’s system. None of our adults knew what to do for him, but our 8 year old understands him at kid level. “He’s sad. We should make him hot chocolate.” That’s what she told us, and it really did make him feel better!

We’ve also been in a horrible relationship with our biological son’s father. He is abusive to begin with, but dealing with a then unaware multiple just made it worse. He kept telling Jocelyn that he wanted her to be more like she was when they started dating, but it was Joey that started dating him, but she stepped back because she didn’t want to have a baby while several other people did. (Joey’s actually quite good with our son now, lets him get away with small bad behaviors like swearing and blowing bubbles in his milk, but tells him to stop when he wants to do something really bad.)

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

We could never get along with anything but another plural. Other than the differences in sexual orientation, it's not a question of everyone wanting to have different types of relationships.

No, it's the everyday stuff. It's the fact that plurals take things in stride that singlets don't. It's the fact that anytime a plural group has a relationship with a singlet they have to spend countless hours educating the singlet. It's the fact that some singlets never get educated and they're still analogising your people and your world to aspects of your id, ego and superego and areas of your brain ten years into the relationship. It's getting a sinus headache and him being convinced that "someone new is being born" and when you tell him it's just a headache he won't take your word for it. It's having a regular domestic argument that anyone might have, and him blaming it on "the little ones". And on and on.

To coin a phrase, arglesplat. We're pushing fifty and we just don't need the, you should pardon the expression, headache.

[tir-nan-og.livejournal.com]

Just for the record, we did not have to spend countless hours educating our singlet. He is relaxed and profoundly supportive. He can even handle the more french farce elements of his relationship with us..the inner catfights that used to happen over him before we got our shit together, the not knowing who would be coming over and making love with him. The endless introductions.
As soon as he read the Layman's Guide, he was good to go.
Of course, there's his autism to consider...
Just wanted to bring a ray of hope to my comerades and sisters in Multiplicity about hookin' up with singlets...

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

I am beginning to wonder about this multiple-Asperger’s/autism connection. I’ve read about a couple people who are multiple and have Asperger’s syndrome, you are apparently involved with an autistic person. Our biological brother has Asperger’s syndrome, our biological son has PDD (pervasive developmental disorder), which is on the autism spectrum, and of all the people that we know, our brother and our son have always been the most accepting of how wildly differently this body behaves depending on who’s at the front. They have always just taken it in stride that mom/sister is acting like this today when she was very opposite yesterday.

[tir-nan-og.livejournal.com]

Not only am I involved with an autistic person, I AM autistic and most likely my child is asperger's as well. A fascinating conversation when I am free of squirmy child on lap later...

Multiplicity/autism connection

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

You aren't the first to notice this; in fact, I've seen people theorizing that multiplicity and autism may have a similar neurological basis (we have Asperger syndrome). In her book "Nobody Nowhere," Donna Williams talks very frankly about being multiple, although she seems to put it down to making 'masks' to deal with the world and believed she needed to get rid of them in the end to find her 'true' self.

We've considered both the idea that there's a neurological connection between the two, and, more recently, the idea that while the percentage of multiples may not necessarily higher among autistic spectrum persons than among the general community, it may be easier for autistics to initially deal with having a shared body on an everyday basis. Anyone who has any kind of autism has to cope with being bombarded with overwhelming, confusing stimuli from the time that they're born, and by comparison, an extra mind or two in their head may not seem so distracting or difficult to adjust to as it might for a non-autistic person. We've basically had to train ourselves to cope with constant overlapping layers of stimuli. I know that we find overhearing a multiperson internal conversation, for instance, much less stressful or distracting than walking through a crowded public place.

Re: Multiplicity/autism connection

[tir-nan-og.livejournal.com]

Yes, in fact I was going to mention Nobody Nowhere! So..I have found yet another asperger's multiple. Hello!
I am undecided about wether autistic people may be more likely to be multiple, or have a higher percentage of multiplicity among its population. I am beginning to suspect there IS a higher percentage. I absolutely agree that an autistic person would be more likely to find multiplicity less alarming, even welcome. I know that for me, multiplicity has been a way to free myself from some of the constraints of sensory processing problems.
I think an autistic mind may be more of an incubator for developing selves, or a more commodious environment for walk-ins, depending on which you have, and how you want to view the origins of your household.
Because autistic people find the external world so difficult to process, it sounds like many have their own world, or their inner world, in which they feel much more comfortable. This constant, careful attention to the world inside one's mind, like the meditation of anchoresses, could be a sort of developing medium for new selves.
autistic people often have highly visual ways of thinking. Because of this, new selves may be able to 'see themselves' more easily as having an extremely distinct appearance, and this may help them to have a firm sense of their own independent solidity.
These are just thoughts i've been hashing over for a while..

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

We are glad to hear about plural/singlet relationships where they're getting along well. It seems like a rare and wonderful thing. Good for you guys! (you&, and him!) :)

[jinxtigr.livejournal.com]

The interesting thing is that if you actually pay attention to reality and have some recovery experience- that is, if you can see what IS rather than operating programmed by 'the way things are supposed to be'- there are some interesting conclusions to be drawn.
For instance, Tir_Nan_Og is _only_ well, when multiple. I can, and have, come up with an interesting litmus test around this, such as when things are so stressful that she's a sort of undifferentiated gray placeholder and cannot manifest multiply I know things are way beyond the safety limit, and when it's 'what if this is all a big game or fantasy' or someone wants to run the show 100%, I know the shit has hit the fan and she's in serious trouble. This shows up in other ways and life is hell until wellness has been reestablished. And when there's acceptance and acknowledgement of her multiplicity, there's the resilience to life's tribulations, ability to laugh, more of an upbeat attitude that I thrive on and really appreciate.
Some would say that I should be encouraging the times when she's like 'what if this is all unreal? what if I really should be singlet?'. But some are idiots. Any serious recovery person who's (for instance) clean and sober and not running around micromanaging those around them would be able to observe when things are well and when things are ill.
The funniest thing is how some apparently feel multiplicity is like a cop-out to disassociate from difficult situations. I am sure there are people (not necessarily true multiple) for whom that's true. For Tir_Nan_Og, when the situations get too difficult, the multiplicity is overwhelmed as if it is some higher state of self-care that must be actively chosen, like an addict going to meetings and choosing to have faith and believe in a better life for himself. And when it exits, there's nothing but same-old same-old, old tapes and beliefs and despair and self-condemnation.
I am not fool enough to take this for wellness. Only someone with a really heavy bias would look at it and think it was. For some, 'out' or not, active plurality is the only way their healthy brain is structured, and anything else is crippling it from its natural state.

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

The discovery of both of us being multiple has made a lot of things much easier. Both bodies were friends long before ever dating, but being there for each other and understanding the kind of issues you have with your other people has brought us even closer. He’s told several of us that he considers us his best friend and one of very few people that he can come to with his multiple issues, and then there’s the added benefit of the sexual relationship(s). We do have a few other friends who are aware multiples, but they’re not living under the same roof, sharing a bed, and all that stuff, so there’s certain things that they just aren’t in on that we (we being the boyfriend-girlfriend bodies) are.

It’s worth the effort to deal with all the different people who have various traits and sometimes problematic issues, just because there’s that deeper level of understanding.

Both bodies are in their early 30's. This one has been through many unsatisfactory relationships, while his has only been in one other serious relationship. Interestingly enough, she was also multiple, and when that ended, his crew pretty much gave up on dating until meeting us.

[ex-khailitha846.livejournal.com]

We have given up on the concept of engaging in traditional relationships with singles... for many of the reasons you listed. How do we commit everyone to a relationship with someone which some of us are guaranteed to find wildly inappropriate, for wildly divergent reasons? Having less traditional relationships is certainly on the menu... except for the fact that the body has children, and a business, and a certain image to uphold. Which really sucks. Any ideas on how to have my bread and eat my cake too?

Although....
We do have a friend/lover who is also multiple, and We have certainly been able to explore a wider range of Our potentiality with him.

*wink wink*

#Hey, it goes alot farther than that...#

Yet, it is also a hugely volatile relationship, with alot of big, insurmountable issues and periodic breaks because of the intense dislike which ensues every time incompatible people interact. So, I don't think it will ever look like a partnership.

I think any time there is a connection that makes a fuller expression and experience of who you are possible it's definately worth a shot.

Keep Us posted, 'kay?

[tir-nan-og.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, those 'wink wink' wider range of potentialities! We too have had our fair share of those!
I can imagine the array of gender combinations and emotional connections would be limitless between two multiples. A singlet has to be extremely flexible in this regard. When he or she meets a new person in his/her lover's system, a new relationship has to be formed with each one. As such, with each person in the lover's system, the singlet, too, would have to be different.
My singlet fiance does in fact have other identities. He is part of the furry community and likes to be a female cat! He has several female characters, through which he got to explore other sides of himself..kind and nurturing, or witty, bitchy, and aggressive...
I am fascinated by the number of you that know other multiples in the flesh. How do you manage? Coincidence? I cant tell you how much we would love an in-the-flesh multiple friend.

[jinxtigr.livejournal.com]

Yep :) I've sometimes thought why it is that me and Tir_Nan_Og have been able to make a relationship better than I've had with any fellow singlet.
I can come up with two words- 'bisexual' and 'polyamorous'. I like 'polyamorous' better than 'polygamous' even though I will be marrying 'everybody', because I think polygamy is illegal ;) plus I am not Mormon.
One note (this morning we're doing stuff and looking at houses, yay!) about Edie and MaggieKitten, who Tir refers to- I have sometimes felt like an inadequate roleplayer because although I can totally manifest as a female cat (and even read as fem online to other females who are player-female), I never feel like I can actually roleplay because every 'character' is always only a different angle of view on the same central me. The reason I can get out as Edie or MaggieKitten and really thrive is because that IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN me, rather more than any 'male' persona I might have been expected to have. There's no differentness about it, it's tapping into a deeper truth that is latent in the one person I already was, and doesn't change me, it liberates me.
Yes, we have a harness :D
Cheers :)

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

We've just happened to already have several friends who came out about being multiple once we decided to start telling people. We do hang out with mainly role players though, and of course there's that obvious attraction there for multiples. Actually, when we first became fully aware of being multiple, we tried to find a support group, but the closest we found was a support group for families of multiples. (Of course, we find that amusing, since by definition, a multiple is a family....)

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

Having children really does mess with your ability to live freely. We love our son dearly, but we really do have to hold our wilder members down so that they don’t do anything that might get on record and turn up in custody court. Of course, moving to another state a few years ago has helped a lot, since the ex doesn’t have any friends up here to spy on us. The pictures of him in drag that my lawyer has also help there. But having a respectable business reputation to maintain would make it even more important to protect your image. All I can think of is if you knew people to explore more non-traditional relationships with who you knew for certain you could trust to be really discreet. I’m thinking people who would have the same kind of risks as you would if they ever told. I don’t know. I’m afraid I’m not much help there. Sorry!

It’s a pity that things are so volatile between you and the other multiple. Things do get volatile from time to time between my people and my boyfriend’s, but we seem to only have a couple on each side who antagonize each other, and we’re pretty good about keeping them apart. Except the Jade-Synch combination, but my people at least have decided that they just flat out enjoy setting each other off, having wild make up sex, and then bitching about how they only have sex out of respect for the commitment between the two bodies. Yeah, right. They both know perfectly well how to step back and let somebody else take over! Actually, we just might have seen the end of those two conflicting last night, but then again, stuff resolved over a couple bottles of wine does not necessarily stay resolved long term. Besides, as long as we don’t get sucked into the argument, the rest of us find it slightly amusing to watch those two fight!

I’m sure I’ll be making more entries either here or in my personal journal about how things develop.

[artichokes.livejournal.com]

My boyfriend is in a multiple system (I'm not). The rest of them sharing the body all seem to like me with the exception of one. So far it's been working out fine. As I've known them for three years, I'm pretty familiar with all of them as individuals (They don't co-front a whole lot, and split up time out here pretty well), and I don't think (well, I hope not) they've been annoyed at questions I've asked. Several of them have found companionship within Thoughtspace (what I've been calling...not here), and their partners do not come out. I don't know how that works. We just haven't had too many issues with someone else wanting a boyfriend or girlfriend, and I'm only dating one of them.

When I read about a singlet (I'd never seen that word!) dating an entire system, I think it must be extremely complex. The word "polygamy" came to mind. How does one kiss 12+ people good night? Multiples dating multiples sounds like it'd be a lot more stable 'cause it'd probably cut down on loneliness.

Hrm, that's all for now, methinks. And I've vastly overused parentheses.

[tir-nan-og.livejournal.com]

I think it IS polygamy. Jinx already thought of himself as polygamous, so it wasnt a problem for him. In fact, it was more a problem for us, and we were ridiculously jealous of eachother for a time, and each wanting to be the favorite.
If Jinx ever gets flustered, I dont blame him. It is very much like having a harem.
He wouldnt try to kiss all 18 or so goodnight. What an interesting idea, though. Whoever is out gets the kiss. We can be out front as much as three or four at a time when alone..though this is admittedly exhausting..but have never done so in front of him.
Interesting. So you are only dating one person in your boyfriend, but others do front at times? What is your relationship like with the ones who front around you but are not in a conjugal bond with you? Is it more like a friendship at those times?

[artichokes.livejournal.com]

What does your boyfriend think of it (unless he's multiple too and I missed it)? Is he always able to tell who is out? It's good that the jealousy issue has died down. Four out at a time? Wow...I just really cannot fathom that at all. It makes me think "Crowded, much?"

I'm dating just one person in a system. *nod* My relationships with the others are friendships. When Manda, who is four years old, is out, I am more of a mother figure. I goof off and chat with them as I would anyone else and it's rarely awkward. What's awkward the most is when I'll slip and refer to someone by a gender pronoun (s)he has in Thoughtspace, but not here, or use their name instead of the name of the body in public.

Speaking of which, what do you do in public with the names? It's slightly odd having to switch from saying "Andrew" in private to "April" in public. Does this come automatically for you guys?

[20splinters.livejournal.com]

We figured out that we seem to be able to have up to 8 people out or at least near the front at once. Yes, things do get highly confusing when that happens! We try to keep it down to 3-4 unless we're doing something calm, like watching a movie that a lot of people want to see.

My boyfriend and I are pretty good about calling each other by our legal names in public, unless we're somewhere that nobody knows us or else around friends who know about both of us being multiple. About the only one's we have to watch in public are Anakin on our half and Tia on his half, but then we go with nicknames Ani and T.

[jinxtigr.livejournal.com]

I keep saying 'polyamorous' and joking that I'm not Mormon so it can't be 'polygamy' ;)
No, I'm not multiple myself. No, I can't always tell who is out, particuiarly if someone has been away for a while, but there are differences in character and style, including involuntary physical differences, so even though I'm pretty socially clueless I'm still picking up the ability to tell. I'm cautious because I'm scared of getting it wrong.
As for names, I use the public name even if it's not preferable- I like it, and it's just simpler. I associate it with a classic TV show and an endearing character so it's okay for ME to use that birth name to her/them ;)

[tir-nan-og.livejournal.com]

He's pretty good about knowing who's out, which is somewhat simple because of the outrageous array of accents.
Having four out at a time is rather overwhelming. I notice Twenty Splinters has eight out at a time! I hope she manages better than we do! The problem is, each time someone pipes up, the way we see the world noticably shifts. That's a lot of shifting. I wonder if anyone else experiences that?
I'm glad you are on good and motherly terms with the child in your lover's system. That is a very deep connection, and shows a profound trust on your lover's part.
Yes, my lover does always call me by my birth name in public, not that we are out socially very much. I am a closet multiple and tend to hold in the really dramatic manifestations for when we are alone together, with some exceptions. He seems to have this wierd fondness for my birth name, anyway..urgh. It is LAURA, and he seems to have some fond associations with the Dick Van Dyke show! Only one person in my system identifies with, or for that matter doesnt mind, being called by that name! The rest, frankly, hate it.