on suicide
Dec. 19th, 2003 04:25 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
perse.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
multiplicity_archivesthis was brought up by some people's comments in response to a previous post
I, as the "protector"/front/etc of this system have attempted suicide twice. Once in November of this year and once in November of last year. Both times I have had the full buy in of everyone in the system - or I would not have done it.
The notion that you have to stay alive because it will hurt your friends and family if you die is a load of crap. It is not only illogical but completely unethical to expect that someone should live for decades in very intense, insurmountable pain to satisfy those around them who care about them.
Just because people care about you and are good to you doesn't mean you owe it to them to keep living.
At some point, you owe it to yourself to examine the quality of your life and if after thorough examination you conclude that you would be better off ending your life there is no reason you shouldn't be allowed to do so. If someone were in intense physical pain and decided to go off life support because they couldn't sustain a decent quality of life, the people around them would be sad/etc. but they probably wouldn't condemn them for it.
Yet so many people believe that they are entirely justified in condemning those who attempt suicide, no matter what the level or intensity of their emotional pain, no matter how long they have suffered, or how long they have paid the ultimate price for that pain - staying alive. Out of duty, out of loyalty, out of consideration for those very people who they love.
Yet your first and most primary responsibility always has to be to yourself. If you don't believe your life is worth living and you have honestly tried to make it okay and it's not, there's absolutely no reason in the world you should ever be condemned by *anyone* for deciding you're better off dead. Only you can know what's best for you.
It makes me furious that people who supposedly "love" others so much want to see them live out their lives in excruciating pain because that is somehow better, more venerable, more courageous than ending it all. If you love someone, you support them. You acknowledge how they feel as being valid. You support their choices for their life even if you don't agree with them - provided they're not abusing someone else.
Who of you should sit in judgement on someone else and tell them they just haven't fought enough, tried hard enough, stuck it out enough, so they have to put in another ten years of hell, trauma, depression, overwhelming pain - just to keep you happy?? Just to not hurt others?
That's such a bunch of shit.
Everyone has to determine what's right for them and best for them. Those around them who can't look past their own selfishness and their own needs to the needs of those they love and care about who are in tremendous pain don't deserve to have their wants and needs taken into consideration. They just don't.
Assisted suicide is legal for terminal illnesses, in several states. Assisted suicide because you're in torment and agony, all the time, is not. There is no distinction between the two. There is no ethical boundry there.
Everyone likes to say "stick it out, it'll get better", but no one can predict the future. Everyone hopes things will get better for you, but maybe they won't. Maybe they'll get worse. Until you've lived someone else's life you have no idea how hard it is for them. You don't get to be the moral arbiter of someone else's destiny. That is the ultimate in arrogance and presumption.
I, as the "protector"/front/etc of this system have attempted suicide twice. Once in November of this year and once in November of last year. Both times I have had the full buy in of everyone in the system - or I would not have done it.
The notion that you have to stay alive because it will hurt your friends and family if you die is a load of crap. It is not only illogical but completely unethical to expect that someone should live for decades in very intense, insurmountable pain to satisfy those around them who care about them.
Just because people care about you and are good to you doesn't mean you owe it to them to keep living.
At some point, you owe it to yourself to examine the quality of your life and if after thorough examination you conclude that you would be better off ending your life there is no reason you shouldn't be allowed to do so. If someone were in intense physical pain and decided to go off life support because they couldn't sustain a decent quality of life, the people around them would be sad/etc. but they probably wouldn't condemn them for it.
Yet so many people believe that they are entirely justified in condemning those who attempt suicide, no matter what the level or intensity of their emotional pain, no matter how long they have suffered, or how long they have paid the ultimate price for that pain - staying alive. Out of duty, out of loyalty, out of consideration for those very people who they love.
Yet your first and most primary responsibility always has to be to yourself. If you don't believe your life is worth living and you have honestly tried to make it okay and it's not, there's absolutely no reason in the world you should ever be condemned by *anyone* for deciding you're better off dead. Only you can know what's best for you.
It makes me furious that people who supposedly "love" others so much want to see them live out their lives in excruciating pain because that is somehow better, more venerable, more courageous than ending it all. If you love someone, you support them. You acknowledge how they feel as being valid. You support their choices for their life even if you don't agree with them - provided they're not abusing someone else.
Who of you should sit in judgement on someone else and tell them they just haven't fought enough, tried hard enough, stuck it out enough, so they have to put in another ten years of hell, trauma, depression, overwhelming pain - just to keep you happy?? Just to not hurt others?
That's such a bunch of shit.
Everyone has to determine what's right for them and best for them. Those around them who can't look past their own selfishness and their own needs to the needs of those they love and care about who are in tremendous pain don't deserve to have their wants and needs taken into consideration. They just don't.
Assisted suicide is legal for terminal illnesses, in several states. Assisted suicide because you're in torment and agony, all the time, is not. There is no distinction between the two. There is no ethical boundry there.
Everyone likes to say "stick it out, it'll get better", but no one can predict the future. Everyone hopes things will get better for you, but maybe they won't. Maybe they'll get worse. Until you've lived someone else's life you have no idea how hard it is for them. You don't get to be the moral arbiter of someone else's destiny. That is the ultimate in arrogance and presumption.
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no subject
Date: 2003-12-19 09:34 pm (UTC)I support assisted suicide, I guess, provided there's absolutely no chance the person will get better and they are in a state of mind where they can make that decision for themselves. For a severely depresed person, neither of these things are the case. No matter how bad things are for them, no matter how long they've felt this way. Of course when you're depressed you feel like things are horrible, always have been horrible, and always will be horrible; that's what it means to be depressed. If you could take a blood test or something that said that you would never, ever be happy, no matter what, then okay, maybe I would support your decision to die. Maybe things will get worse. Or maybe they'll get better. Like you said, nobody can predict the future.
Another thing: when we tried to kill ourselves (a long time ago; when I was still just a part of the consciousness with no self-awareness) we thought we'd get some relief in death. We've since come to the realization that there isn't any relief in death because there isn't any 'we' to experience relief. Now, I don't know what your religious beliefs are, or indeed anything at all about you, but...
Well, anyhow. I suppose if you really are going to kill yourself, this isn't going to stop you, and I'm sorry about that.