(no subject)

[person-salad.livejournal.com]

The main one had a question but she didn't want to ask here because the last time she asked a question here she ended up getting griped at. So I'm going to ask the question for her. I know this isn't a discussion forum and also that this isn't meant to be a support forum, but I've noticed that some of the people here are non-trauma based forms of multiplicity. Because of the way our mind works, we like to look at things scientifically. I know that might come of as skeptical, but it isn't at all. It's just the way we work. We're not skeptical at all about non trauma based systems. Here's the question. How do you suppose that it happened that you are a multiple even though you're not a trauma based system? Did it happen spontaneously or was it gradual? Was it akin to having a panic attack in that it came out of nowhere like a storm? Or was it more like dissociating when you're reading and you forget what's going on around you?

Well, the baby needs attention, so I'm going to let the main one take over soon. Just a question. The only reason I thought this would be the most appropriate place to ask is that the community seems to be made up mostly of non trauma based systems. That's it. - Sylvia of the salad system

Comments

[overlord-mordax.livejournal.com]

No offense taken. :D

We're natureally multiple. There have been at least 2 of us in this body for as long as we can remember. More than one mind/soul born into one body.

Scientifically there's really no reason for one brain to have a single identity.

I personally have an opinion as to why it happened in our case- but i won't bore you with my magical mystic thinking. ;)

what came first -- chicken or the egg...

[thecuteone33.livejournal.com]

I think with me it's both...but I'm not sure...not with 100% certainty...

What came first -- chicken or the egg? I'm faced with that question -- was I already multiple before the trauma? For instance -- when I started puberty early -- instead of dealing with it -- someone else defied it (michael)...that was traumatic... but not abuse...gender roles/sexuality was a big theme

Interestingly too -- sexual abuse was also in the picture -- but I think I was multiple before that -- with that thrown into the mix -- that's how I dealt with traumatic events in my life.

So earlier ones might not have been trauma based but the later ones (newer) were...

And my question is -- what causes it if it's not "trauma based" I'm putting this into quotation marks because -- being multiple is still to me defense/coping mechanism -- there's a reason why...somewhere...

[lion-azure.livejournal.com]

I'd say I'm a natural multiple, not in that I was necessarily born this way, but in that it came naturally for me. I just sort of grew into it. Or maybe it was that the others grew out of me, to become their own people? So yes, it was a gradual transmission from being one person to being a system, with a lot of questions of "is this real" inbetween *g*.

- Fireez

[fireez.livejournal.com]

PS: I agree with overlord_mordax that there is no scientific reason for the mind having just one identity, or sense of self. I know a fair bit about neuroscience and neural mapping (I'm a biologist by trade), and while science does have a few methods to test basic self-awareness in animals and humans, we still don't know exactly where this division of "me" and "them" springs up - some animals just have it, others don't. Tie into this things like empathy, mirror neurons, the mystery of memory and all those things, and you'll end up realizing that a person's sense of self is in no way as unshakable and cut in stone as most people believe.

- Fireez again, this time from her personal journal because I was too lazy to log over to the group journal again ;)

[freakshownia.livejournal.com]

We were just born this way.

[raze--the-rose.livejournal.com]

I don't even remember when it happened, or if I can properly call myself a multiple (the term median has sprung up a lot, I'm still looking into that).

It was suggested to me, that in labelling my depression and anxiety related issues as demons, I started treating them as outside influences, and that was the start of them being something other than purely ME. I was so focused on fighting of the "demons" of suicidal thought, eating disorders, and self injury, that my mind stopped recognizing these thoughts as my own.

It's something I've thought about a LOT. I no longer think of them in such outside terms as "demons" because I've come to the realization that healing comes from within, not from pretending to be helpless against outside influences. But I have never reincorporated those trains of thought back into me. They're completely different people from me. I can switch from one to another and back almost seamlessly, and sometimes not even notice until later that it happened at all, yet while I'm another "version" of me I have completely different tastes, a very different view on life, different manners of speech towards people I know, different way of dressing, all kinds of things. Yet I never properly feel "I am not Jen right now, I am Sue". I'm trying to work on this so that it never does progress to complete dissociation, I don't want that. But neither do I want to integrate and take on those characteristics again.

I personally see nothing wrong with this, as it's enabled me to very nearly cure myself of anorexia, bulimia, self injury, and suicidal thought without need for a therapist or pharmaceutical drugs; I see it as natural to want to take the bad thoughts and put them someplace out of everyday thought. Unfortunately, this is the only place I can talk about it, because in real life if I said this they'd try to tell my why I'm wrong, or that I'm crazy...

[theyareme.livejournal.com]

I thought for years that I was being or had been attacked by demons. It wasn't until I learned about DID that I realized it might've been something else.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who had the "demon" association.

[rhymer-713.livejournal.com]

We were just born that way...Agreement with overlord_mordax Can you give scientific proof that the natural state of humanity is singular? Perhaps some people are just born as multiple...Just like some are born with blue or green eyes while others have brown.

[phen0type.livejournal.com]

Hullo, Sylvia!

Well, I'm sorry that she was treated that way in the community. Should she wish to come here again, either under her own name or this one, she is certainly welcome to.

We are not a trauma-split group. As far as we can remember, we have exhibited behaviour that would make much less sense for a single person than it would for many, and we have always had our different behaviour, although we didn't know what it was at the time. We found out that we were plural through our own research efforts and selves-analysis. It certainly didn't feel like a panic attack though; it felt more like a shift in sentiments, thoughts and beliefs that would be atypical for a single person. We know how panic attacks feel, and they have nothing to do with our plurality.

I think that it isn't necessarily true that one brain must only have one person operating it. We do not know that much about the brain, especially contrasted with other body parts, so it is foolhardy to assume such a thing without even giving the other ideas a chance. That is like assuming that heterosexuality is the only valid sexual orientation, or that an autistic brain can be converted through Applied Behavioural Analysis or other therapeutic interventions. It's presumptuous to think that, in my opinion. I do not think that you and your group necessarily think that, but it's a thought-pattern that I have noticed in other places.

This was rather long-winded, but I hope that it answers your questions.
Richard
Fen Group

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

This is a discussion forum (probably you just typed that wrong) :)

We were born this way. It was perfectly natural and routine to us -- it wasn't like one day there was one person and the next there were all these people. No panic attacks or "storm"-like states, no dissociation. More at

natural plurals (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=natural+plural&filter=all)

non-trauma (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=non-trauma&filter=all)

[nancy-nensi.livejournal.com]

I grew up living in two different countries. A few years in one, then a year in the other, then back again. There were two languages, and two different cultures. This created a natural division inside, that helped me not to act like a foreigner in either country.

When I moved away from my parent's home, I stopped going back and forth between the two countries, and part of me went to sleep for many years. Then she woke up. At first I thought I'd just accessed a "part of me" that had been dormant, a part that spoke the other language without a foreign accent. It quickly became obvious that she is more than "part of me". She has her own thoughts, feelings, and opinions separate from mine.

-Nancy

[thecuteone33.livejournal.com]

That's interesting!!...

Two of my alters have British accents (Yeah I practiced a lot and was pretty obsessed with anything British when I was a kid). Two have a similar smirk which I don't have (have witnesses that will attest to this)...very different body language, yada yada.

[crystalseraph.livejournal.com]

We are still sorting out how we are formed, but we do not think that it was trauma related, more like how commodity_sign and lion_azure describe it. We may have just come of age after a long time apart. Our seperation and 'single' minded existance previous to this was traumatic in and of itself.

[ridetothesea.livejournal.com]

We're a natural group, but it took some time to fully develop awareness and communication.

[shade-durza.livejournal.com]

I was born this way although it took us some time to fully function as a group. In the beginning they were more like people who sometimes visited and with the ones that were here permanently the contact was a bit blurred sometimes. I knew they were there, but it was like we were talking next to each other instead of together if that makes sense.
I just cannot imagine being a singlet.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

If you go with the woowoo theory, they're here because they're spirits that hung around :P

If you go with the not woowoo theory, I'm not sure. I think maybe I imagined things so vividly that their actions were essentially unconnected to my thoughts. And when one was finally strong enough and active enough and nosy enough, those behaviours became a part of my mind. In that sense it was a slow progression through childhood.

That's what I'd call the sort of 'psychological' explanation. I don't think about it too much though. Internal or external they're just people who hung around, and now some of them use my body and some even live in it :)


~'the host' as Michael likes to call me :P