A fun question to twist your collective noodles.

[katullus.livejournal.com]

Not to say this is happening to us, or ever has... *shifty eyes* Let's just say this isn't a current problem. We'll call it a conversation opener and an introductory inquiry to our joining of Multiplicity.

Scenario: Two people inside of a system, one male, one female, fall in love and engage a relationship. What is that called and exactly where does that fall on the scale of perversion in any conventional terms? To me, the closest term I can equate it with is incest, which sounds nasty, a friend of mine called it masturbation, which actually doesn't work because it's a relationship based on love, another friend said it didn't fall into any category and is just too weird and uncommon to have a name. I've gotten constantly mixed responses on this, but all from singlets, which only muddles their judgement. And when you throw in the implications of whether or not it's homosexuality... I mean, the one person is male and the other is female, but they both are in a female body, so does that make it a relationship between a female and a crossdresser, female and a transgender, or just between a male soul and a female soul?

Congratulations. On entering the domain of The Legion K, you've just crossed 5+ lines of controversy in a reading single paragraph. This is Katscratch and Katullus Lexus alternately speaking.

This account as well as the blog belongs entirely to myself, Katullus Lexus, but we have made the decision to let this community be an open forum to all seven (known) members of The Legion K. I, being the current go-betweener for everyone here, will introduce you to everyone.

Katscratch (teen, female, bisexual) Default "Driver",
Dominant personality trait- randomness!

Kittie (child, female, straight) Currently dormant
Dominant personality trait- obedience

Gray (unknown) Currently dormant
Dominant personality trait- confusion?

Kacharkau (young adult, male, straight) Active
Dominant personality trait- aggression

Katullus Lexus (adult, male, bisexual) Active, Secondary "Driver".
Dominant personality trait- philosophy/passion

Erik (adult, male, straight) Active
Dominant personality trait- coldness/logic

Lady Felinus, otherwise referred to as "the creature" (adult, female, bisexual) Currently dormant
(as far as we can tell)
Dominant personality trait- manipulation

I'd type up long "character descriptions" for all of us, but we're not characters, we're people, souls that are infinitely difficult to define by words. If you want to get to know us, you're just going to have to do it the conventional way.

This is Katscratch speaking- I'm going to be perfectly frank with you all. My main motivation for joining this thing is not only to get to know other people like us, other systems, but to find Katullus a girl. Much as he denies it, he could really use one!

This is Katullus. Katscratch is completely ridiculous and is going through a teenage matchmaking phase, which I roll my eyes at.

Katscratch- We'll see.

Comments

[linnai.livejournal.com]

You guys are cute.

Anyhow. We have people that are all in our system that are in relationships. It isn't masturbation or incest or anything like. BECAUSE they aren't one of the related peoples and they're mostly all inside anyhow.

Um.

Otherwise, not much wrong with homosexuality either. Our body is female and so is the body of the other system we're involved with (mostly) and Daye and Ana are even engaged and both girls so yeah.

[teh-kerry.livejournal.com]

Many of us are married or engaged, when it comes to inter-system relationships, but there are quite a few casual ones too. And we see ourselves as seperate people. My marriage to Aaron is as seperate to Matt's marriage to Tracy, as your parents' marriage is to David and Victoria Beckhams'. (OK, so bad example, but it got the point across).

And as for the in-sytem love thing, it's no weirder, to us at least, then 2 people loving each other on the outside. Inside, these are fully seperate people, so all it is is love. It's when you start to see yourselves as 'parts' rather than seperate people that all the problems arise.

Lynn x

[kyouketsusha.livejournal.com]

Two people inside of a system, one male, one female, fall in love and engage a relationship. What is that called and exactly where does that fall on the scale of perversion in any conventional terms?

It's called love.

or just between a male soul and a female soul?

This. The body-sex doesn't really enter into it at all, unless one of the two feels that they are the "original" or "host". Two people are two people, regardless of whether they have their own bodies or not.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

Weird and uncommon? Don't know about that. It's just two people who are together. It's homosexual if they're both the same gender. Body doesn't factor into it. Calling it incest or masturbation is pretty insulting, just saying. If it's love then it's love. I just use the same terms I'd use if they were in their own bodies. Girlfriend, mate, wife, whatever.

It's all just normal from where I'm sitting.

(not sure saying you're looking for a date is going to get you many people by the way)

[lion-azure.livejournal.com]

What kyouketsusha said. I'm married to someone in my own system. Neither one of us is the host, who has a stable relationship with an outsider. Why should it be incest? My husband and I are not related - we don't even come from the same worlds! As for masturbation, most of the time, when we're having sex, the host/body doesn't even notice. We're discreet like that :P.

Just because someone doesn't have a body doesn't mean they're not their own person. You said it yourself, you're not characters, but persons. So why should a relationship between two non-bodied people be different, or fall under a different name, from that of two bodied people?

- Ash

[lion-azure.livejournal.com]

As for the "is it homosexuality" question - first off, let me say that I regard you grouping homosexuality under "perversion", even if it happened implicitly, is pretty offensive.
I'm a homosexual male who happens to inhabit the body of a straight female. Am I still homosexual, because the body sleeps with a man? Or am I straight, because the body is a woman? This just doesn't make any sense, don't you think?

And if that posting really was halfway intended to be a personal ad, I'll just go ahead and pimp spiritpersonals. Which is the place to go to for personal ads of the more unusual kind.

- Malak

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Yay for controversy.

[katullus.livejournal.com]

Everybody certainly got excited, didn't they? ;) I try not to take life too seriously, especially when it comes to things such as messages becoming at least three times longer than they might have been had I decided to reword everything with the proper politically correct phrases, but then, I suppose I would have if I'd really cared too horribly much about everyone's feathers getting ruffled.

Obviously this is a topic that's been discussed to death, or at least thought about to death, and a more common issue than I would have thought before getting involved with internet communities. I know I thought about it to death myself and came to the same conclusion as most of you- simply love between two souls.

Now that I'm drifting dangerously towards disclaimers, I might as well make it clear that I use the (rather foggy) term "scale of perversion in any conventional terms" to describe the ~views~ of the public as a whole, not my views, nor the views of the multiple community, nor even close to descriptive of what is actually right or wrong. That's one area I certainly could have made more clear in my original post. And be incredibly specific, none of us consider homosexuality to be perverted- many of those in this system are, in fact, homosexual to one degree or another.

As to Katscratch's jab about hooking me up with a girl, as far as I can tell, that was meant to be a lighthearted joke to loosen up the mood (which seems to have backfired). I'm not incredibly interested in starting an internet relationship and Katscratch has her own crushes at school to chase after.

So, now that awkward introductions that could have gone much better with a bit of tact are past, we're glad to meet you all.

Re: Yay for controversy.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Yay! I can comment again! :)

I think my original comment was about that love isn't a perversion.

I'm online too much! lol

-Butterfly

[arcis.livejournal.com]

[b]to Katscratch :[/b] I know how you're feeling ;__; I've been trying to set up someone here (actually I think that person only need to get la-- *gets killed*) to no avail~

*waving with teary eyes* xD
oh, about the terms thingie, someone who probably care more about labels should answer later~ ^^

- Oz

[ridetothesea.livejournal.com]

What is that called and exactly where does that fall on the scale of perversion in any conventional terms?

We call it a relationship. And as for the perversion factor...well, that depends on what the two (or more) people involved are up to, now doesn't it? ;)

[arcis.livejournal.com]

views of public. not homosexuality nor incest, I believe, it's not the case/ problem when they don't even see the involved 'parties' as different at all.

not exactly masturbation, either, although I'm pretty sure for many (singletons) it falls between 'pathetic' and 'needs help'. this is talking, of course, assuming that the public (as general) doesn't 'approve' (or recognize) multiplicity as something 'real'.

we probably should care about that, but it wouldn't be a problem at all when we don't even tell them we're multiple, no? from our (official) point of view, the sentiments happen, thus resulting in relationships in some cases. it's just the way it is.

I mean, the one person is male and the other is female, but they both are in a female body, so does that make it a relationship between a female and a crossdresser, female and a transgender, or just between a male soul and a female soul?

if you, like you said, claims for all of you to be people. wouldn't it be contradictory to call them anything else? the (general, singleton) public aside.

- S

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

I'd type up long "character descriptions" for all of us, but we're not characters, we're people, souls that are infinitely difficult to define by words. If you want to get to know us, you're just going to have to do it the conventional way.

I agree with that totally, and that's how we think of ourselves also. We've had way too many people regard us as characters and want "character descriptions" and to be able to reduce us to some kind of stock thing.

However, if you don't want outsiders to think of you that way, it might not be a good idea to describe each of yourselves by a single dominant personality trait, unless you regularly describe every person around you that way, in system or out. Our experience is that listing people by dominant personality traits encourages people in the direction of thinking of you as representing "parts of the original" or as stock characters, rather than complex individual people who can't be described simply.

[katullus.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about that and how my little disclaimer paragraph afterwards was completely contradictory to the nature of those introductions. The way I figure it, though, almost everyone has a dominant personality trait, be it how they appear on the outside, they way they want to appear, or their true blue selves. I suppose that, since there probably isn't going to be enough time for each individual person in here to post enough for everyone to get to know them, and first appearances are difficult to broadcast on the internet, I would throw out a word for each just as a taste of their character pallette so the reader might be able to say, "Oh, so THAT person must be talking right now..."

All in all, it's pretty pointless, but when you go around analyzing everything you have to say for political correctness and what impression it might give instead of just saying it, what's life for?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

What do you think is a good way to keep a list of people in a group? Jenilee and them made a list with brief biographies of most of the main fronters. They put a small image with their names and some history and a description of what they look like, or when they joined the group. She tries to keep the bios short but it's hard to do that because some of them have long histories. She calls them biographies instead of lists or characters. A character is someone in a story, aren't they? I'm not a character. What kinds of lists do you have?

-Butterfly

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

The girls have an entry where they've got name, age, race, picture of what they look like if they can, and what they're mostly going to be like if you catch them out front. Also got a section further down that says how they got here for people who're interested.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I like that. :) Jenilee put one together that is in an entry. It's longer than the short one in this journal's profile. Is yours public or private?

-Butterfly

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

Private. Girls didn't want just anybody reading all about their lives, 'specially since there's some people around who don't think too much of them.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I understand that. The one Jenilee made is locked too.

-Butterfly

[katullus.livejournal.com]

It's difficult, but since everyone in my group knows I'm a writer and a casting director, movie maker and whatnot, I tend to equate each of them with characters in movies. I do this with EVERYONE- not just people in my group. I'll go about saying things like, "He has Magneto's sentiments towards mankind, Riddick's mannerisms, Jigsaw's intelligence and morbidity..." etc., and then, often, if I'm doing this for someone in my system, the person who I'm comparing will actually take on the appearance of the most relevant character in my mind. The most relevant character also shifts constantly. Someone in my group might look like David Bowie one day and Hugo Weaving the next. This all makes sense when you understand that I'm a very visual person- I need some image to assign something I'm thinking about or it becomes confusing. I call this behaviour "avatarring"- none of them are exactly like an actor or a movie character, but personality traits match up and the character will become an important avatar for identification. For example, at the moment, since I just saw "V for Vendetta" for the first time, Katullus Lexus looks very, very much like V and probably will for some time to come.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

That is an interesting way to look at things. :)

-Butterfly

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

"Two people inside of a system, one male, one female, fall in love and engage a relationship. What is that called and exactly where does that fall on the scale of perversion in any conventional terms?"

Try this: a relationship (love affair, fling, marriage, etc.), between people within a group (or system, clan, collective, etc., whichever word you like).

If we didn't have them, there wouldn't be any people; on our homeworld as on earth, that's what makes the world go around!

http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=relationships+in-house&filter=all

*giggle* thinking now about the time someone asked "How do new people come about in your group?" and John said "Well, you see, when a man and a woman love each other very, very much ...."

[makil-s.livejournal.com]

*dies laughing* John deserved a cookie for that one!

Thanks... I needed that. *continues to chuckle*

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

I'll tell him! XD

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

That is how most of the children are born in the realm too. Some do come in from somewhere else too though.

-Butterfly

[crystalseraph.livejournal.com]

Being in an internal relationship as I am atm, I can tell you now that it feels much different than when I'm fooling around by myself XD

[rhymer-713.livejournal.com]

::Chuckles:: We'd just call it...love...or maybe just hmmm....a relationship. Good question. Our noodles have become pretzels.