Need a bit of help

[fatchocobo.livejournal.com]

(I was directed here by someone else in another community where I asked this question, so hello!)

I'm writing a story where one of my characters has multiple personalities. I already know enough about treatment, causes, etc but I need a bit of help with something that's more difficult to find information on.

How often does a multiple typically lose control and switch to another personality? Are there certain triggers (like extreme anger, or just seeing something on TV that triggers them) or is it totally random? Are there certain signs (like violent headaches as an example) that someone is about to lose control or does it just happen without any warning?

I'm trying to be as accurate as I can with this, partially for the sake of having accurate characters but also out of respect for people. I don't want to glamourise it at all, because I've seen that done with things I suffer with and it's not nice, so anything you can give me would be awesome.

Comments

[nat-leia.livejournal.com]

I think you're over-assuming there is a line between multiplicity and violence, which there is not.
It is not about loosing control, either.

[fatchocobo.livejournal.com]

The only mention I made of violence is anger as a possible trigger. I'm trying not to assume anything, but I'm only working off what I know already, which I why I posted here, so I can write without assumptions or stereotypes. Just facts.

[shandra.livejournal.com]

Just a note that it sounds like you're already using a stereotypical model for your character. You might want to read _Set this House in Order_ for a good fictional portrayal of multiplicity.

So to answer your questions for us...
- switching between people in our system is not really seen as a "loss of control" as if it were a tic or something; it's more like deciding to change drivers. For the person who's about to front, too, it's a GAIN in control, remember

- there can be reasons someone comes to the front, like there's someone they want to talk to, or music they're interested in

- we generally give each other warning, sort of like a tap on the shoulder

[fatchocobo.livejournal.com]

Like I said above, all I know so far is causes and possible treatment, ect. So all I know is from a purely medical/psychological standpoint. Which is why posting here, I think will do me a lot of good because I'll get a different perspective on things that I can't get from reading articles and medical sites.

[shandra.livejournal.com]

Ok, well, I think if I were going to summarize what I think a _writer_ needs to know about a multiple character is that there are several characters there - each one with his or her own motivation, goals, etc.

So it's not so much that Jane(multiple) gets angry and turns into George(multiple); it's that something about a situation that involves anger is attractive to George and repulsive to Jane, OR that George just happens to be there.

If you write George as a flat stereotype - the "evil angry alter with no actual motivation or capacity to change or learn" type, you're just as guilty of a flat character as you would be if you wrote your antagonist or whoever that way. Or Jane as the flat "victim" type.

That's one reason that SO MUCH about multiples in fiction/television/movies is SO BAD - because it's assumed that there really is no motivation there other than "confusion" so multiples tend to come out extremely one-dimensional and, frankly, stupid - either they are the plot twist that makes the murder suddenly make sense! or hapless victims. You might as well put a moustache and a black hat on 'em, or tie 'em to the traintracks.

I hope that makes sense, I'm a bit rushed. I hope that's the kind of feedback you're looking for. The Matt Ruff book really is excellent material that demonstrates the difference. :-)

[aww-my-bees.livejournal.com]

With me and my headmates, there is no desparation to front at all.
Sometimes though, they can't help themselves, like Nikki will squeal in joy if he sees a cute puppy, Ed will throw the horns when Slayer comes on, and force farts out to make them louder, Steve will screw his nose up at a group of Emo kids, and Jay will 'dress' me or another one of my 'flesh' friends :) They are very respectful that 'Berni' was here first.

[chaostiny.livejournal.com]

This is pretty much what I would have said other than replace "slayer" with "metallica" and "Nikki" with "Sam", "Ed" with "Michaela" etc. etc, etc... LOL... we used to be the fairly typical out of control "Sybil" multiple...switching at random and being fairly violent...although we found out later that was my bi-polar! I had a therapist who understood that we needed to learn to each be ourselves... and he worked with each of us individually, to the point of keeping a seperate file for each of us. Everyone was able to learn what they needed to learn, to function and to get along in the outside world. Now, if I want to be out front, I just give warning and allow whoever is out to finish what they are doing first. It is very organized and not chaotic at all!

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

i love your icon, I have a cat who looks just like that! his name's Garfield, go figure.

[chaostiny.livejournal.com]

thanks:) his name is throgmorten after a really cool cat in a book I was reading when we got him!:)

[forever-alone.livejournal.com]

Random: What is that icon from? I know I've seen it before, but for the life of me I can't remember where...

[overlord-mordax.livejournal.com]

Its from invader Zim. Specifically the episode 'Parent-Teacher Night'.

God, I'm such a geek.

[our-menagerie.livejournal.com]

First of all let me say we are not judging you, we know you only know the things from what you have read. I think what people are trying to say is that a lot of the things students read about causes of multiplicity and the treatment of such are not the only way to go. As for causes, the reason the public seems to think that all multiples were abused as childern is partly because those are the people who go to doctors or therapists asking for help.

Are you writing the story soley based on the medical/psychological model of dysfunctional multiple personality disorder? Disorder being the operative word there. You will find that a lot of people in this community dont consider being multiple a disorder at all.

I hope that helps some, and all that being said, im not sure there is a typical way for every multiple. When we switch, sometimes its planned and sometimes it just happens. We are able to communicate with each other fairly well so for example if I am out and I see a program come on tv that I know Shawna would enjoy more than I would, sometimes I will ask her if she wants to watch it. If she says yes then we switch. Sometimes its not that controlled especially if someone sees something that excites them or really wants to talk to someone outside the body. We use to get headaches a lot when we switched but that was years ago and now that usually only happens if someone who has never fronted before is trying to switch out. A lot of multiples are also very good at hiding their switching so people would never know. Its a matter of self-preservation for us.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

I already know enough about treatment, causes, etc

could you possibly tell me what you believe the treatment is? because we don't believe we need to be treated for anything.

also, what you believe "causes" multiplicity? because nothing "caused" us to be multiple, it happened on it's own, for reasons known only to beings higher than us.

How often does a multiple typically lose control and switch to another personality?

this, to us, seems like two questions.
1) how often does a multiple lose control? - as often as anyone else.

2) how often does a multiple system switch fronters? - as often as they are comfortable with. For us, it's whenever each individal chooses to emerge, for whatever reasons. for example, we can front individually, or co-front, or even group front, for a myriad of reasons. right at this moment, Rick is watching TV with his outer husband, Faith is typing this to you, and Tara is chatting with a friend online. This could change if Liz sees a friend sign on, or if cubbie asks to play his video game, or if Wolf wants to do something, etc.

Are there certain triggers (like extreme anger, or just seeing something on TV that triggers them) or is it totally random?

Again, we switch out for our reasons, the only exception is(in our case, we cannot speak for any other system) when we are in extreme danger, or extreme pain, Faith default fronts. we do not know why, it simply is. She was not "created for that reason", but she is better equipped to handle those situations, so the system defaults see to it that she does.

I think the random thing's been answered ad nauseum.

Are there certain signs (like violent headaches as an example) do you mean outwardly? or inwardly?

outwardly, no there are no "warning signs" to signal change of fronter, people who know us well can tell when people have changed by mannerisms, voice pitch, body language, and other "tell-tale" signs that anyone would notice if say, "the character of bob will now be portrayed by actore so-and-so. if I'm out, and Rick fronts, his husband would know, because our voices are different, I sit differently, I like different music, and may have changed the song selection, or whatever else.

inwardly, there isn't much way to tell either, except inside there's "hey, can I get out there? I'd really like to check my email", or, "hey, I'd like to go spend some time with my significant other, can everyone else leave us alone?"

I hope this was of some help, and you can find information about our system specifically here (http://rickmacleod.bravehost.com/packcollective.html)

Rick/Faith/Tara(mostly Faith)
Pack Collective

you may also contact us at: <mailto:"packcollective@gmail.com"> or via AIM on collective10in1

[aimeepatricia.livejournal.com]

Hmm... I'm wondering what research model the person used. Most of what it sounds like they are basing their data off of is the Hollywood stereotype. Maybe the DSM-IV entry for DID, but I'm not sure that even that addresses "losing control" and "switching personalities after losing a battle to remain in control."

The idea that a multiple is a person with "alters" who constantly fights to remain control of his/her mind, then something happens that brings out an "alter." Then they have to regain control, or whatever...

That sounds like the Hollywood model to me, because it has everything a good story needs. Character tension, shock value, established literary trope that the reader can relate to (having seen Sybil and stuffs...), and like much the media does... has no relation to reality.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Yep.

And thank you.

Thinking about updating http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/manifest.html ...

And no, the DSM-IV does not talk about "loss of control" or "a struggle for dominance" or whatever.

We've never had that experience in our lives.

[teh-kerry.livejournal.com]

How often does a multiple typically lose control and switch to another personality?

I suppose you'll have your head bitten off enough for the way you phrased this, so we'll be nice, leave you alone, and just answer the intended question. :)

We switch between people deliberately and out of choice, and so it can be whenever anyone wants to come out. Perhaps we're around Lynn's husband, and so she'll come out to be with him. Perhaps it's a mealtime, in which case, anyone currently without an eating disorder will come out. Perhaps we're arguing with someone, so someone stronger will come out. Perhaps we're watching cartoons, so Sophy and Aimée will come out. People go out into the situations that're attractive to them.

Are there certain triggers (like extreme anger, or just seeing something on TV that triggers them) or is it totally random?

It's a situation that's under our control. Inside, we have a front door as the gateway between inside and the 'real' world. If we want to go out, we go out the door. Simple as.

If we're in a bad situation, or if one of the kids get out when we're at school, or if someone new's here adn they don't have a clue where the hell they are, then someone stronger can force their way out, by leaning out the door, grabbing the person out front and yanking them back in. But that's only done in times of absolute need.

Are there certain signs (like violent headaches as an example) that someone is about to lose control or does it just happen without any warning?

When we've switched, there are the vocal changes, etc, that people above have described. When we're about to switch, maybe the body will go a bit limp or slump forwards. We can just change without any sort of notice, but that needs a lot more energy, as you have to have someone ready to dart out the door.

Hopefully this helped. :) Feel free to email us for more info - existence underscore is underscore futile at hotmail dot co dot uk.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how to answer these questions personally because the group I'm a part of doesn't lose control in the way you mean. I could answer different questions that relate to our group though. :)

Amalah

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

The idea of pink bunnies spurting out rainbows and flower petals is really freaky, btw. Plus you have an awesome selection of communites.

I think the last time we really switched randomly was a few years ago when I decided it'd be a totally WICKED idea to watch Se7en. There was a lot of cyclic switching. Course, now I own it on DVD and can watch it straight through fine.

[hold-me-coldly.livejournal.com]

Lose control? Oh wow. Maybe it's been pointed out, actually I'm sure it has, but to reiterate we don't all "lose control" and go bananas and that's just playing into the stereotype shit media has put on multiplicity and I would hope if you plan to put more out there you would not add to the stereotypes. I would assume not, if you're coming here to ask questions. Most of us are not a danger to anyone, and those who are... are generally only a danger to ourselves.

The amount a multiple switches varies from multiple to multiple. I/we switch several times a day and generally it is by choice, not a loss of control. However, I can be triggered, at which time they do come to front without my asking them to. My multiplicity was brought on by many different traumatic events and if something reminds me of those events, they will come forward to protect me. The only one with whom there is a sign I am switching is the most recent to have developed, and I have a trauma seizure before she comes out. Otherwise, from what I understand, there can be no obvious sign I am switching or I can appear disoriented for a couple minutes while the switch takes place. During the trauma seizure I do have a severe headache right in the center of my skull, I shake, I get extremely cold, and I can't think or speak. It doesn't last long unless I try to fight it. As far as extreme anger, that would be (at least for myself as I can't speak for anyone else) something that is expressed through another personality. Not something that is a trigger. Things on TV? Maybe if I saw someone commit suicide, as that was one of the traumatic events. Everything is very circumstantial.

Good luck with your story. I'm working on an autobiography myself.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

If you're wanting a medical perspective, it's best to say so pretty clearly. Like I'm sure you've noticed, people here can get quite uncomfortable if they think you're suggesting they fit that model, even if you're not saying that.

We don't fit that model so our input'd be pretty irrelevant.

[rainbowthespian.livejournal.com]

Hi. I'm usually a lurker but I have to speak out.

Someone up there said "I suppose you'll have your head bitten off enough for the way you phrased this, so we'll be nice, leave you alone, and just answer the intended question. :)"

Frankly, I'm disappointed at the lack of head biting around here. (LOL, that sounds so ozzie osbourne!)

I am not multiple. My partner is. I joined this community to get some perspective, but I don't often think it's appropriate to contribute comments. It's just not relevant.

However, I see a ridiculous amount of "You People" posts, and they're not often sensitively written.

Can there be something in the description of the community? Something that suggests less judgemental, rude, appalling language when asking questions about You People?

I may be out of line. That's fine. I just get defensive in my partner's behalf. Feel free, mods, to delete this, if I went out of bounds.

Peace...

[tahaton.livejournal.com]

I don't think the OP was at all judgemental or rude. If anything she was a little uninformed about other possibilities, that seems to be about it though.

It was about as polite and open as she could have been, all things considered.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

It sounds a lot like she didn't really read the community info though. Or at best gave it a shallow skim. It says right there that "If you are writing a school theme, screenplay, story or novel about multiplicity, be prepared to lose your preconceptions about what multiplicity is. Most multiples are not like Sybil, Milligan, or even Truddi Chase. Keep in mind that while many community members don't mind answering reasonable questions, they don't appreciate being treated like zoo exhibits. "I've always been fascinated by MPD" might not get you the kind of response you want."

So... she was warned, and really shouldn't be surprised at the fact that we don't particularly like the "zoo exhibit" treatment. And... the whole bit about "don't want to glamourise it at all, because I've seen that done with things I suffer with and it's not nice," suggests VERY strongly that she thinks there's something "wrong" with us, that we are "suffering." Which, if she'd taken any time to actually read through the community info, she would know is not the case.

So either she didn't bother to read it, or she read it and then totally ignored it.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

Dunno about you, but I don't read the userinfo here much. It's long and mostly just common sense rules. I don't read the info of anywhere past the first "this is a community for-" line.

I actually thought the glamourise line was pretty nice of her. Doesn't sound like she thinks anything's 'wrong' with natural/healthy multiples, sounds like she wasn't talking about them to start with. What's weird is everybody taking it personally when she's probably never heard of this before now and never meant to refer to stuff like that anyway.

Hey, I don't know. I just don't see the problem personally. She wasn't talking about me, so why would I act like she was? I don't get why people would.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

When people make assumptions about you, it makes you sensitive to it. If fifty people tell you that they think you're crazy and have a disorder because you're multiple, then when the fifty-first person starts talking about people who are crazy and have disorders, it's very easy to take it personally.

I'm not particularly offended myself, but... if you don't research a community before posting, you deserve what you get.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

I guess. I'm not big on the "deserve what you get" philosophy myself. Too easy to shift blame about.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Oh heavens! You say that as though what this person got was an attack. We expressed our opinions, and a lot of us expressed a dislike of how the question was phrased. Most everybody still answered the question though, and nobody was rude, cruel or insulting. Why shouldn't we be honest? I found it ignorant, since she could have gotten her questions answered much more readily if she'd just read the information, and a few past posts. And I'm going to say so. That's no excuse for rude behavior, but I haven't seen any rude behavior here at all.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

Nah I just meant what I said. I don't really like that philosophy much. I figure if she outright calls me nuts after she knows then she calls me nuts, 'till then she's just a little uneducated and it's my problem if I want to take it personally.

Most people are alright though some people seem to take it a little personally. Mostly my issue was with the girl who kinda implied the OP got insulting or whatever. I thought she was alright, you know?

[tahaton.livejournal.com]

Hrm. What weirdiguess said, basically. I can understand wanting to correct her gently, but acting like she was rude and using 'appalling language'? I don't see it. I see that as the commenter projecting her own issues onto the OP.

Sure, the poster was probably misguided, misinformed, but she wasn't half as bad as some of the actual rude people who talk about multiplicity.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

After some of the unbelievably insensitive stuff we've heard elsewhere (not on this comm) we heartily agree.

[mylittlebox.livejournal.com]

As an aside from the controversy over your post, Auroch and I will both answer your questions. For us, personally, there have been triggers. Sexual violence, or "rough play" causes Auroch to come front 98% of the time. If he feels that I am threatened, or becoming too close to someone, he also emerges in order to "defend" me. Certain names, or words, can also cause him to push to front.

When he is front, oftentimes the repetition of my name, or a sudden burst of kindness toward him that would make him uncomfortable causes him to retreat.

On the non-violent side, anything that reminds Auroch of home, or of things he's done in his past -- for example, the cloudiness, coldness, and drizzle of today reminded him of walking the gray battlefields -- can cause him to come forward.

Otherwise, it's mostly voluntary.

I hope this helped you. I know what it's like to be a writer, and sometimes have to answer for your ideas. If you want to know anything more, or would like a review of your story content, you can always request my e-mail.

[rabbitsystem.livejournal.com]

See everybody else re not losing control.

Over the course of a day we'll change fronter two or three times. It depends what we're doing. We'll rarely front for more than about five hours at once, becuase we'll get tired or bored and go back, so someone else will come forward. That's a gradual change over ten minutes or so. There are certain things that will bring certain people forward much faster: things they like, or are afraid of, or interested in. Some things 'belong' to certain people, ie they have agreed fronting rights during that activity.

[aquilawolf.livejournal.com]

I think I might be able to clear something up here. Most people only know about traumatized multiples. So is your story about a multiple, or someone who was traumatized and is multiple?

Being both, yes, I can get twitchy and even look stereotyped sometimes. But multiplicity is not about being traumatized and does not require treatment. Trauma though, does need healing.

'Loss of control' in my system occurs when a gentle easygoing person is at front and is confronted with someone outside taking advantage, being very insulting or aggressive, and then a stronger inside person steps forward to cope with this. This can happen explosively if they have waited to see if the situation will resolve and then when their patience wears thin when things aren't looking so good they grab the front really quick.

Most people don't know when switching happens as most people don't know I am multiple. They assume my mood as changed, or if a child comes forward the child is quiet. There is also a lot of co-running in my system, an adult almost always being present to some degree when a child or infant is out.

I don't get headaches but when someone is stuck up front there can be a great deal of stress until someone can switch forward. (The person stuck up front is usually fairly dominant and is having trouble relaxing and letting go so someone else can come up).

Having had a severe childhood, there are some in my system that are very protective and they can be quick to take offense and to defend. So you might want to consider more about your character who is multiple. What is their background? The media has already played up the trauma. That's why most people see multiplicity as an illness. It isn't.

[pthalo]

Well, since there are many "causes" (some people are born that way), your character won't be able to have all of them, being one system with one cause, and psychologists vary widely as to how it should be treated, so you'll have to make some decisions there. you probably are most familiar with the stereotypes (caused by severe abuse and treated by integration) there are systems who were created by severe abuse (we're one of them) and systems who benefit from integration (we probably wouldn't, but some do), and there are systems who don't and weren't.

As for switching, it's generally a very subtle thing. Your character probably isn't going to be rolling around with seizures when a new person shows up, unless they are on some sort of cheap talk show and want attention. Outwardly it might look like nothing or they might look away or when the new person comes out they might look a little confused as they try to figure out where they are and what has happened, but then again, they might not, because the person who just went inside might have told them what was going on or they might have been watching. it depends on how well the system communicates with each other.

as for signs that a switch might happen, it really depends on the person. for some, someone might say "hey, give me a turn" and you say "yeah, okay", and you step back and give them a turn. or you might not really have any warning except that suddenly you're watching the body but not in control of it. or maybe you describe it to yourself as "blackouts" and you don't know that what's really happening is that you're going to sleep inside and someone else is taking over.

some people get headaches if they switch too much ina short period of time, but not everyone does and that's not really a warning, just an after effect.

there can be "triggers", we have a few rather embarassing ones that cause someone who wants to be out to be forced inside and someone who doesn't want to be out to be sent outside. this happens to us when we experience extreme emotions. it can be very subtle on the outside (people usually don't realise we've switched) but it's really annoying on the inside.

sometimes it's as simple as "ooh, the body's eating ice cream. i want some ice cream. yum yum" i don't need to mention that more people in here are interested in coming out to eat ice cream than hanging out when the body has a migraine.

no head biting

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Try this. Start here:
http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=switching&filter=all

Other subjects here:
http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity

More information on the userinfo page for this community, including some links you may find useful.

Your current image of multiplicity (already being changed from the responses you've gotten here) is a media stereotype; it's an easy mistake to make when that's all that's shown. A few groups really are like that; most that we know of are not, most here in this community are not, and we are not. (Couldn't get a thing done that way. We're a leaderless co-op.)

[mirrorbrothers.livejournal.com]

I think our perspective would be useful here. We're a system of two, and I'm fronting most of the time and answer to the body's name. Someone insensitive or unfamiliar with the terminology might call me the core or even the "real personality."

I never come fully to the front casually or easily, and certainly not by accident or because Rob lost control. Right now I'm dictating to Rob as he types. For me to front takes a deliberate effort of will from both of us. If someone loses control, the system reverts to normal. (Normal here meaning our usual state of affairs. I'd like my fronting to be normal for us, regardless of societal norms, but it's not.) Mostly I only front when Rob is tired or when we're with friends that know me, or both.

There's no signs before or during a switch, but once I'm in front I have different mannerisms (my speaking pitch is tenor instead of baritone, and I have different speech patterns, a bit of physical clumsiness and a tendency to use my left hand.) This is mostly because I'm just a different person, but the voice pitch is deliberately exaggerated - for one, I like to express individuality, and two, it helps hold the front if I do things differently than Rob would.

We're not a typical system - switching is much easier than this for most people. But I thought it would help you to realize that switching is rarely something that "happens to" a functional system. Someone has to try, and for systems like us, they have to try hard and work together.

We're both glad to help you learn more about us. It would be hypocritical, after all, to wish people were more informed about multiplicity and then get mad when ignorant people come here for information.

Rob, Johnny