Query and Surveyish things...

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

Rick of Pack Collective here, I've got a couple questions...

A friend has a six-year-old son, who's having mucho issues in school/with the school, because he's been (I believe) (mis)diagnosed as ADHD. I believe, the the child's multiple, based on behaviors he exhibits, and other such stuff...Whether I'm wrong or not, the whole mess is going on a crash course to a shrink's office...

now, my thing is, a six-year-old couldn't(imho, my apologies to any six-year-olds I may have offended) understand the rammifications of being multiple, and so, the possibilities end like this: 1) he IS accurately diaged as multi, and gets a multi-friendly psych(odds of this?)

2) he IS accurately diaged as multi and the psych thinks his mother's done something HORRIBLE to him(or someone else, whatever, in any case it's not true, I LIVE there)

2) he's inaccurately misdiaged as something else, and ends up where I know alot of us have been...

so onto the questions part:

any advice?

how old(body age) were you when you realized you were multi?

how old(body age) were you when you UNDERSTOOD WHAT THAT MEANT?

how old were you when you realized the full rammifications of that, regarding life, society, psych community?

thanks for all of your help...

Rick
Pack Collective

Comments

[mylittlebox.livejournal.com]

how old(body age) were you when you realized you were multi?: I felt the sudden change at 6.

how old(body age) were you when you UNDERSTOOD WHAT THAT MEANT?: Around 9, I started to hear Auroch clearly.

how old were you when you realized the full rammifications of that, regarding life, society, psych community?: When I first heard Auroch speaking, he told me to keep quiet and be good, because no one else would understand. He eased me through the blackouts around age 12 and 13. Around 14 or so, when people were really beginning to call me "crazy" and say I ate babies, killed pregnant women, etc... I really understand that if you were different, you'd likely be persecuted. I thought about what would happen if I revealed that I had others within me (Vicki was dormant for a long time, but appeared around 15). I felt my heart sink into my lower intestines at the thought.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

thanks for the honesty...may I show this entry eventually to the mother? I won't without y'alls permission, and I can omit your name if you'd like.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

The thing is for us, we didn't realize it until hindsight and looking back. There were various in our group who fronted at all different ages this body went through. But while it was happening it was just how life was and we never saw it as odd or really thought of it as anything.

I'm not sure how to explain it. All we knew was that some of us who were fronting believed they were whatever age the body was at the time. So if Kalli was 9 and the body was 14 she remembers not understanding why she wanted to buy certain toys instead of teenaged items. When we were in junior high some of the kids would sneak out of class and take kids books from the library and hide in the bathroom to read them.

We had a sense of feeling we were odd or that maybe there was something wrong with us, but what could we do about it really, right? We never knew we were a plural group until we were older (even though we know and have memories of specific individuals in our group doing certain events over the years).

Our life was what it was and unless someone from the outside asked something or pointed something out to us, we had no way of knowing that our existance as it was was anything but how it was. (I hope that isn't confusing).

Sukey (The Clique) - Kasiya Group

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

Not confusing in the least, that's how it is for us a little bit...

mind If I show this to the mother eventually? I won't without permission, and I can omit your names and username if you'd like.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

I think being multiple is something which, by its very nature, is hard to deal with from the outside. You, as a friend of this kid and his family, can't say for sure if he is, and can't really deal with any of his "voices" if he does have them. I'd say it's best to let him find his own way. As you point out, trying to diagnose him will probably result in further problems, as multiple friendly psych people are hard to come by.

BUT, I think it is very important to find ways to let him know that being multiple isn't bad, that it's not like anything he may see on TV or read about or otherwise hear stories about. That's one thing I think would make a huge difference, having the confidence from a young age that there's nothing wrong with being multiple. Then as he grows, he'll hopefully have less of the conflict and self doubt that come from thinking there's something wrong with you.

And even if he turns out to be a singleton, helping the next generation be more accepting is still a good thing!

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

absolutely. I agree with your assesment, and I don't plan to interfere directly with him(them?). We are open in the house, to a certain extent, as much as it irks some of us, we'll all answer to Rick, although, the adults are aware of the different people, and are accepting, and do treat us differently... for the most part, they don't call us by ANY name, so as not to make a mistake, and refer to us as "them" in pronoun...

may I show this to the mother? I will not use your username, if you'd prefer.

[hydra-system.livejournal.com]

To answer all three questions in one, I realized these things between the ages of 14 and 16, even though I was multiple much earlier than that. However, we didn't discover the term 'multiple' until age 18.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

thank you for answering, my I use your answer? I won't show your name, if you'd rather I didn't.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

The original (Tanz) knew she was DIFFERENT at 6, when she was shut away and Lynne took over. But none of us knew what that WAS until we were around 20 years old. We met the Whispered Ones and they introduced us to the concept, and then we did our own research and the doors started to unlock that kept us in line.

So it was around then (about three years ago now) that we realized what it meant and we're still learning about the rammifications... We have examples of what they are from our whole lifetime, but it's hindsight, which is always better than foresight.

Also, since we act as a pseudo school counselor for our mother's private school (she teaches 2nd grade) we know that children can SEEM to be a lot of ways, and it can be as simple as a hearing or vision problem.

We've gone through thinking a small child in her class was a multiple and trying to determine if this was likely or not, where it ended up being that the child was really having sensory problems and needed hearing/vision aides.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

it's been thought the child has various different problems, and I'm not saying he IS, just that he could be. it's a possibility I'm considering, is all, because it's not one anyone else would think of.

may I use your response? I won't use your name if you'd rather I didn't.

[interfaceleader.livejournal.com]

I think you want to be very careful diagnosing someone that young with anything. Putting a label on someone can be the most damaging thing to do. Letting him grow up naturally, as fluid or rigid as he wants to be, is better. We're all biased, and as adults we're all quite rigid. As a child, your personality(ies) are much more adaptable, and anything can happen.

Far better to be a healthy open multiple system around him, so he can see that option exists, and can decide for himself when he's older?

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Do you think adult personalities are really that rigid? We've been harmed at times by the expectation that we should remain static after a certain age and never change, when in fact our inclination was to keep on changing just as we'd always done. Adults can be as fluid as children in how their identities change over time, but as we grow older, society nails down more and more restrictions around your behavior, forcing you to be consistent, to be constant, to be the same person all the time, to the point where one can almost end up becoming a cliche of themselves, like a parody of a person who never was.

...that's my take on it, anyway.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

I am not pretending to diagnose anything, and we're indeed trying to let him grow up naturally...the problem is, he's going to be diagnosed whether we like it or not.

[rhymer-713.livejournal.com]

We kind of were like tej_agni Most of us knew we were different, I.e feeling like other folks were around us but we sort of thought when we were very young that other people lived like this as well. When we learned that that was not the case we kind of wnent in cognito as it were. fFeel free to show his mother and we don't mind if you use our names. That's perfectly fine with us. Rayvin, Lori and Alissa

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

thank you for your response, and your permission.

[refined-mirages.livejournal.com]

Was 14 when officially diagnosed with MPD/DID although looking back, don't even remember a time when there wasn't several of us within one body and that can be said with all honesty because as time passes, more of us come about and many of us remember a great deal of childhood while many of us don't. Some of us only have a mental recognition of the past from the time that we 'came about'.

Been diagnosed with many illnesses but medications just make things worse. Given that meds never help, it just further cements that we all exist and that some of the problems that run in the genetics are actually genetic.

Oddly enough, MPD/DID seems to be genetic amongst some of the blood relatives but the relatives live in denial about their wellbeing.

It wasn't until around age 18 that we realized that we had difficulty functioning in the workplace, etc. because we each have our own interests and skills so it was very difficult to hold interest in a job especially when we got to a point when there was not a primary front person. Having one of us be the primary has caused a lot of problems for us in the past so we've opted to put a stop to it. However, having our differences more prevelant to those we know [and blissfully unaware that there are many of us] also creates problems...for them, not us.

I think for the child, who is the premise for this post, that they should be allowed to grow up without being medicated unless they prove to be a danger to themselves or others. I think the child's mother should be aware that the child may be a multiple and encourage the child's interests even if the interests change a lot so if the child is a multiple, all personalities get a chance to fully develop and may have a chance to function better together in school, the workplace, etc. as the child gets older. Also family history of mental illness should be evaluated. Contrary to popular belief in psychology, a lot of mental illnesses are genetic. Many of these genetic illnesses are unresponsive to medications and that should be considered pre-medication, etc.

[Hopefully, the above makes sense...]

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

it makes so much sense, and I would like to hug you. May I show her this response? I'll take out your name, if you'd like.

[shadowechoes.livejournal.com]

any advice?
let him be, meaning don't interferre with his psychiatric stuff, but also let him be himself and encourage him to do so. I think so many of us grew up being told "one body one personality" and that's why so many people sort of repressed their multiplicity until they were older.

how old(body age) were you when you realized you were multi?
it depends who in here you ask. For most of us, it was a constant state of being, we always knew. for our former hosts, it always seemed that part of the job description of being a sole-frontrunner was not being aware of the others. Jane started to figure it out when she was host around the body age of 12, Rhydan when she was host at around the body age of 16/17, and the lid was completely blown off when Ash was host and the body was 19 (which is also the age we were diagnosed as "DID").

how old(body age) were you when you UNDERSTOOD WHAT THAT MEANT?
again, I think a better question for us would be, when did we understand that we were different and not everyone else was multiple like us. for the people inside who were aware, probably around age six or so. But we felt different from everyone else as early as three years old.

how old were you when you realized the full rammifications of that, regarding life, society, psych community?
probably around body age 19. although we understood the rammifications of being diagnosed/labeled as anything different/insane by maybe age 6 or 7 (which is when our cousin committed suicide), but I guess realized it fully when we were about 12/13 and were committed for the first time.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

advice: that's our take on the matter now, the problem is he's got attention problems, and the school is looming down on him...

thank you for your responses, and may we show this response to his mother? we can omit your name if you'd rather.

[hold-me-coldly.livejournal.com]

how old(body age) were you when you realized you were multi? That's hard to answer for me. I always knew I wasn't alone, but as far as knowing I was a multiple, I guess that came with understanding the diagnosis of DID. I was diagnosed at 16 but it wasn't explained to me. So then I simply told doctors I heard voices. They pinned me with schizophrenia without looking at my past charts from other doctors to see that I have DID and then explain it to me or ask if the voices were inside my head as opposed to outside as would be with schizophrenia. I now have a wonderful therapist who explained to me what it means and have fully accepted the diagnosis and it makes perfect sense. I no longer spend nights laying awake wondering if I'm crazy, possessed, etc.

how old(body age) were you when you UNDERSTOOD WHAT THAT MEANT? 26

how old were you when you realized the full rammifications of that, regarding life, society, psych community? Between 22 and 26, because I had a friend when I was 22 who was a multiple so I saw what she went throug, and though I somehow knew, deep down, that I was the same way, I still didn't understand that I WAS THE SAME WAY. But I think it prepared me mentally for finding out. I saw how she was treated in regards to her multiplicity and how she responded to the words, actions, remarks of other people. I am fortunate to have a multiple-friendly therapist, but she is still learning about it as well. I'm her first multiple patient so she seems a bit frightened by it, but I have to give her kudos for diving right in and working with us. I do not tell everyone I meet and even in my family only my mother and younger brother know. And we simply don't talk about it often. I am able to live on my own and function fairly well. Medications (such as the anti-psychotics I was thrown on when they tried to tell me I was schizophrenic) only made the dissociation worse, as did medications for ADD. I can't give an example of multiplicity that doesn't stem from trauma for you to take to this child's mother, but hopefully someone else here can. You're more than welcome to show her what I have said, however, if she would like to see it. I'm glad to help, comfort, whatever I can do.

My first personality developed at age 5. I am now 27 and as far as I know there's me, and 7 personalities within me. I own my own business (which is not to say I'm successful, lol) and am a very published writer. So if the child is diagnosed with this, it is not something that will most definately hold him back. It's a very individual thing ("individual" seems misused here, hmmm). And we tend to be much more open-minded and accepting people on the average. Best of luck to the mother and child! ♥

Leigh

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

thank you so much for your answers, advice, and permission.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

We always think of adults setting an example as one of the best ways to teach a kid anything. That said:

Realizing we were multiple would have been realizing that there were many presences around, and different frontrunners at different times -- we were conscious of this in very early childhood but thought nothing of it.

What messed us up was parental and school expectations and misunderstandings. That's what led Jay to deny us as persons. That was when the body was about fourteen. Then reading Sybil at sixteen didn't help, which is when we first heard the term "multiple personalities."

The problem with a diagnosis is that there is no diagnosis for just being multiple and okay -- it's a disorder, and just like you said, because the disorder is said to be caused by trauma, they would assume that his parents were abusing him, and start "intervention" to prevent him from developing as a multiple but to "re-integrate his personality". We keep seeing this stuff about guidelines for recognizing "dissociation" in children.

You might find this interesting:
http://astraeasweb.net/plural/darius.html

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

thank you. This is EXACTLY what I see in the child... i appreciate the link.

[gryphons.livejournal.com]

how old was body when we realized we were plural? different ones of us knew at different times.. most of us knew when the body was very young.. at least realizing that we were one soul here among others.. probably by 6 or 7..

How old when we realized what it meant? to some degree we realized about that time.. that we were different.. and most people didn't call themselves different names.. or be great at something one day and be clueless the next.. really got brought home .. literally by events in middle school so.. like 10/11 years old.

realized full ramifications? sometimes I'm not sure we realize them now..but we see and think of new examples a lot.

as far as the situation you describe.. we'd ask that the mother try and avoid medication, and try and find other ways to support and direct her child.. whatever the situation is.. if it turns out he's one of many.. the medication won't do anything but make things worse.. at least try and put it off for a few years.. til he can explain some of what's going on.

and yes you're welcome to show our answer to her..

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

thanks, for the answers, and the permission...

[pthalo]

We realised it at different ages. Some of us knew when the body was 12. Some realised later. much later. we understood sort of what it meant at 12. in a simple kind of way. but we didn't understand everything. and we didnt have anyone to help us learn to cooperate.

i think you cant understand the full rammifications of anything until you're all grown up. even as an adult it's sometimes hard to grasp

us

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

thank you, may I use this? I can withhold screennames, if need be.

[relevancedenied.livejournal.com]

How old (body age) were you when you realized you were multi?
Roughly ten or eleven.

How old (body age) were you when you UNDERSTOOD WHAT THAT MEANT?
Thirteen or so.

How old were you when you realized the full ramifications of that, regarding life, society, psych community?
Also thirteen-ish.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

thank you, may I use this? I can withhold your screen name, if you'd like.

[mirrorbrothers.livejournal.com]

Mm, well, I met Johnny when I was four, I understood that there was actually another person in my head sometime around age twelve. I always paid attention to MPD mentions in books and tv and stuff after that, but it was because I thought it was something similar to me/us that we might be mistaken for, since I didn't match what I was seeing. I even looked up the DSRM (sp?) in college, and said "nope, not me." It was only last year (age 21) that I finally found websites on functional/empowered multiplicity and put it together.

Rob

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

can I show this to the mom? I can withhold names if you'd like.

[freakshownia.livejournal.com]

We were born a multiple, but I didn't realize it until I was 15. Some of the others knew before me though. I understood what it meant right away.

I also have ADD though, so it's possible he's both ADD *and* a multiple.


~Sati

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

I never thought it wasn't, I just look at him, see me at that age, and I was misdiaged as ADD...so if he's NOT, I wanna kind of spare him, y'know?

also, may I use this? I'll withhold names if you'd rather.