Hi

[kimandgary.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure we fit the usual description of multiple, but there are two of us, in this body. Gary is technically a disincarnate walk in. I knew him in life, and after his death he came to live with me. He can take control of my body and we do switch, just like any other multiple. I have no history of abuse, but Gary does. I've known him since early childhood and we had a strong psycic link then. I could hear his thoughts, and I could check on him, mentally, if I wanted to know if he was OK. He took over my body once when he was alive in order to protect me. We have always been together in a way that is hard to explain, lifetime after lifetime. In this life there were times I was aware of that, and at other times not sure exactly what I was experiencing. I did know I experienced someone else's memories, and that person was male. I had a lot of things like that, which made no sense to me. It was all like a jigsaw puzzle, until the last few years.

When he died, he came to me at school. It actually took several moments for me to realize he wasn't there physically, because I felt him so strongly. He told me "I am OK, I am with you." I thought that was strange. He died suddenly, and I didn't know until later that day. I was stunned. He has been with me ever since, though for a while he pretended that he had crossed over, because he felt my obcession with him was not healthy for me. He hid in my subconscious, and convinced me that he was my animus, and various other things, but we always talked, and he always switched with me. I was normally aware of what he said and did, though I didn't control it, but I became ill once and he had to take over my body for a couple of years because I litterally blacked out. He was able to take over and run my life, though it was difficult because I was physically sick, and it was painful to keep going. I couldn't do it, but he was able to. I only had a few moments of lucidity at a time for those years, and I would suddenly be aware, and the next thing I knew months had passed. Of course I just covered that up, and didn't let on anything was wrong. Years later, when I recovered, he finally explained to me what was going on.

We know our story isn't typical, but we feel a need for support at this time. I started loosing time again recently, and I know I am starting to have black outs again. Gary is worried. We hope you don't mind if we hang around for the company.

Kim and Gary

Comments

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

I gather most of the people here (around our body or whatever) are walk-ins. And I guess I technically haven't walked 'in' to anything. I'm just around. Can't get much more non-multiple than that, but if it's the same problems, you know. Who cares?

[kimandgary.livejournal.com]

Maybe that is where a lot of the people come from. I don't know. I've read about it a lot, trying to understand the situation. A lot of singles, especially doctors, think that Multiples split, and fragment or whatever, but that doesn't make sense considering how different people in the same system are from each other. The energy off every multiple I have spoken to registers as a different person from the others in the system. It makes sense that at least some of them had lived before in other bodies.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

The situation you've described for yourself & Gary used to be reported much more often about 100-150 years ago. It was one of the original definitions for "multiple personalities" according to some of the material we've read from back then. You might be interested in http://www.survivalafterdeath.org. Gabe would ask you if you knew about Lurancy Vennum.

[kimandgary.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for the link. Yes that is very similar to my situation. I am not familiar with Vennum, but I have read that many of the Sufferagettes who fought for women's right to vote, were mediums. Leucretia claimed to channel for an angel. It seems the only way they were allowed to speak in public was to channel men. LOL People would come to see them channel in huge audiences, but that story makes me wonder if in some cases it was a litterary device, or if their experiences were real or produced for a purpose.

Still you are absolutely right. From what I have read spiritualism was the first explaination for multiplicity, which was considered mediumship. They had walk ins and even angels communicating, mostly with women. My situation actually seemed that way. I am also a light trance medium. I have worked as a delverance minister, and have a little experience with "ghost busting." That is one of the reasons it took me so long to understand that Gary was with me all the time, in a special way. I see spirits, and become aware of people's subconscious thoughts sometimes. I see to angels too. It took me a while to realize that Gary was something completely different, and internal to me.

For me the main difference between my work as a medium, and Gary is that Gary is mine, and part of me in a special way. When going to other places and working with other people, I experience their stuff. I see their household ghosts, and their inner workings.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Trance speakers! Now you're talking my language :) I'm not a medium or anything like that myself -- never seen or heard anything -- but that's a very common interest and subject of discussion in our birth family. Fate magazine, Stewart Edward White, a couple of them were in AMORC, things like that. I'm more into the older stuff, pre-Cayce, the origins, things like Patience Worth and Sylvan Muldoon.

Have you read Other Powers about Victoria Woodhull? Also Radical Spirits by Ann Braude? Those were the books that were recommended to me years ago by a lady in charge at NSAC. I think a lot of the trance speakers' claims were real, but I think a lot of it was political. In order to make their voices heard, they'd let themselves be thought to be channeling whether they were or not. For a while there, any woman who did public speaking or any other non-"feminine" activity was assumed to be trance speaking whether she was or not, because supposedly a woman was biologically and spiritually incapable of doing what these ladies were doing. Interestingly, I haven't been able to find any record that such a claim was made concerning Sojourner Truth, even though she said flat out that she was inspired by God.

You say you were involved in deliverance activity. I take it you weren't the heavily fundamentalist variety usually associated with that term?

[kimandgary.livejournal.com]

We were Assemblies of God. Our church was much more open in the early 80's. Our church was very progressive, and we were all about the holy spirit and love. We were basically part of the whole Jesus movement thing. We did prison ministry, drug rehab, and then had Christian Rock concerts with our converted ex drug addict guitar players, some of which were quite tallented. We fed clothed and helped house the poor. WE had a good church, but those days are gone. The church is so Demurgian these days.

Back then things were different, and the deliverance ministry operated with very little sanction. The first thing my teacher did with me was take me on a field trip to the library. She made me check out all the Carlos Castaneda books they had. Then we studied books on all kinds of ancient religions of really obscure types. She taught a series of lessons called freedom from fear, after which anyone who paid attention could have looked the devil himself in the eye and still been full of spit and vinegar. She also took me on field trips to haunted sites, to see what I could pick up. She was a very powerful woman. She healed a child of Leukemia once. Eventually though, the Church became more controling and became suspicious of us. We would not tolerate their meddling, so we left the church and worked independently after that.

As far as our work we worked with dispelling negative energy fields, which since then I've learned to call pain bodies, at the time we called them spirits. I've encountered a few honest to God demons in my time, but most of the time people make their own problems. Mostly we were councilors, healers, and we cleaned negative energy, and subconscious suggestions that tend to work as curses on people. We protected people from destructive mind control by family members. We rehabilitated people who had been in mental institutions, and also ordinary housewives with the blues.

My teacher was very wise. She saw Gary but didn't say much about him. She did say he was nothing bad. She refered to him as my strong masculine side, but infered that she saw him, and it was obvious she thought he was attractive. She offered to talk to me about gender and sexual preference issues, but I explained I didnt' have any. Gary has never looked at another woman in all our years together, though he encouraged me to date, and marry, because he wanted me to have a family.

I am Christian Gnostic now, but I interpret it differently than most. I still think Jesus died on the cross and rose as an assended master. That would mean that he could appear and disappear at will, any time after his death, in what appeared to be a physical body. The book Autobiography of a Yogi, explains that assended masters in their religion can appear to be physical in what they call a rainbow body, which can be solid and seem very real, and then disappear. The assension story where he assended into heaven has been proven to be added later, so I don't think he left after he rose, that explains why people saw him after. I am still very much a Jesus freak, but I don't have any problem with the idea that Mary Magdalin was his wife. It is really the only way the story really makes sense.

Anyway I am a Gnostic Christian, still practicing a lot of Pentecostal practices, but I am very aware our church has been hijacked by ignorant legalists. I am also familiar with eastern religion to a degree, and I have always been a medium. Gary writes short stories and novels while I trance, and I can channel entities for people.

I've been so tired latley though that my abilities are suffering. I am sort of confused at the moment. I hope what I have said makes sense. LOL I am very dependent on Gary when I am like this, so I hope kicks in soon. As far as reading I don't think I have read any of those. I'll have to check it out when i have time. I researh most stuff on line now, but I have read some Edgar Casey books of course. I am currently trying to read and understand the Gnostic Gospels, research the Cathar religion of the 13th century, and I have been meditating on the Roserium Philosophorium in Alchemy. I am also interested in Madonnas, as they compare to Goddesses, and the Mothers.

[kimandgary.livejournal.com]

Oh and we do have a website where we discuss different spiritual stuff.

http://spiritsense.proboards76.com/index.cgi

Gary has a couple of short stories posted in the fiction section.

I have a link to Gary's Poetry.

http://www.angelfire.com/crazy/spiritsense/Poems%20by%20Gary%201.htm

And a link to a painting of him, I did in photoshop.

http://www.angelfire.com/crazy/spiritsense/KG1.htm

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

You'll pardon me if I'm a little cynical or flippant when I say things, it's just that I've seen a lot of what you're talking about.

It sounds like your teacher went a little too far afield even for a holiness church. She really needed to be independent. I'm suspicious of Castaneda myself, as I am of Edgar Cayce, but even if they were making most of that stuff up, I know people who take it very seriously and seem to be helped by it. Same with the pain bodies and negative energy, Ascended Masters and so on.

I know some demons too; in fact, some of them are close friends, and there are demons in other groups on this community ;) . You know from your studies of obscure ancient religions that demons are viewed differently by nonwestern cultures. Which eastern religion are you familiar with?

You can get the books I mentioned through our books page (http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/books.html) ... and I'm sure Gabe will like to talk with you about the Gnostic Gospels.

[kimandgary.livejournal.com]

Yes, we outstepped our bounds, but we helped a lot of people, and the church used us to clean up all their people who had problems, and then started taking in all kinds of other people for us to help. Eventually thought, they got suspicious after some stories got back. The funny thing was that the stories weren't even true, and they were nothing compared to what we were really doing.

She never told me why I should read Casteneda only that I should. She spoke of the principles in it occasionally. Mostly I think she was trying to open my mind to other possibilities.

As for the term demon, we used it in a different sense which had to do with our work. For us Demon only meant malevolent spirit, and was mostly used as a cover word so the church would understand. By Malevolent I mean something deliberately distructive, and sent by something even more distructive for the purpose of unraveling someone. An attacker would be a better word. Something someone set on you on purpose. I also mean principality. That is a high up demon who tries to control someone's life because they were involved in the life of some ancestor, or because of where a person lives and proximity to something the Principlity feels he owns. Principalities aren't always evil, but they are controling and at times oppressive. Principalities can usually just be rejected, and occasinally they have to be fought off, but they are just controling things that interfere with free will. The legalistic spirit involved in the churches is also a very high sort of principality.

As for demons in the sense you speak of I know some of those too, and some of them are friends. There are several races of beings called demons. They don't all tend to bother people, so I didn't know about them when I was only working with people who were oppressed. I still have trouble calling those nice demons demons, because I am accustomed to thinking of demons as malevolent spirits regardless of origin. WE had to use words like demon around church people, because they expected us to deal with that. Most of the time we just used it as a sort of catch all word for anything from a negative energy field to Lucifer or the Demurge. Not that Lucifer was often involved. Demurge on the other hand was a huge problem.

Demurge is the spirit spoken of in the Gnostic Gospels. At the time we didn't know that and just called him a religious spirit. He is the one responsible for Christians like Jerry Falwell, and other hateful war like so called Christians. He was the one who caused the Spanish inquistion, and we treated him just like any other demon. WE didn't realize how powerful he was at the time, and it is just as well.

I was on a forum about enlightenment for over a year. I learned from the ground up, cause I liked the people. I am familiar with The works of several Yogi's and so called Gurus. I had a sort of pen pal relationship with a cult leader. LOL He was over the Daist cult in his home state. I am slightly familiar with Budism, and Sufism. I have tried to study as many different religions as possible, seeking the central core of truth. I am familar with the midieval Cathar's and the Zorastrians somewhat. I am not an expert on any of them, but I know a fair amount about each one.

Overall I believe that no one religion has the market cornered on truth. None of them are completely correct, or completely false. I try to see what they all have in common. I couple that with my personal experince to figure out what is going on. Overall Christianity has evolved into something it was not before. The Gnostic Gospels have not been available for very long, and a lot of people misconstrue what they say because they haven't done cross cultural research. Also there are many people who try to use the Gnostic Gospels to detract from Christianity. The mainstream Christians won't help, because they hear the lies from those detractors, and are litterally afraid to read the books for themselves. I found the Gnostic Gospels filled in the cracks for me. They explained all the things I had figured were true, and had no proof of. They explain a lot of things, that the mainstream church kept hidden until everyone, including themselves forgot.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Gnostic Gospels have only been available about sixty years, with a few exceptions, and they are still finding some of them, of course. Gabe, who read the book of Jasher and the Apocrypha before we were ten, calls the whole subject a fascinating but contentious thing.

What I have found out hanging around a lot of people who study this sort of things, is that a lot of times if not most times, people have problems that they think, or are told, are caused by outer forces, and it's really just their own hangups, fears or worries. I'm not necessarily against calling it pain bodies or principalities or whatever, if it will help the person to think of it that way. Like the kind of therapy from the 80s where psychs would diagnose people with MPD and tell them a 'persecutor alter' was causing the trouble, this kind of personification of a person's own difficulties might be very useful in getting them to believe that they have the ability to overcome it.

It can also cause a lot of trouble as it is a closed system that does not work for everyone, by a long shot. One of the main reasons I'm suspicious is that I've seen it fail repeatedly.

I'll be happy to take this to email 'cause it's getting kind of long.

[kimandgary.livejournal.com]

My e-mail is all clogged with Spam, but if you like we could use it. I'd prefer if you left me a message on my site, Spirit sense proboard, or we could have a discussion on that forum. The link is above.

I agree that there were a lot of nit wit deliverance ministers out there. My teacher was really good, or I wouldn't have gotten involved. She really knew her stuff, and don't worry. She never got rid of any sort of Multiple personalities. She left mine, and my own deliverance was more rigorous than most, since I was in training. She did practice a version of Tong Lin, in which she took a child's leukemia into her own body. She was sick for a couple of weeks, but the child recovered. That was really rare back then.

Afterwards she told me something that really bothered me though. She said the child, who was age five at the time overheard his parents arguing, right before they divorced. The husband blamed the his feelings of dissasitfaction on them having another baby. That being the child. The child formed a death wish, and that brought on the disease, or at least made him unable to fight it off. She didn't tell anyone else that, like the family, but it was part of my training to understand that.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

What I would hope is that she didn't tell the child that. More via email.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

Yeah I've been told people can feel the difference between people here. But when you think about it, all that kind of weird stuff, don't people change even according to mood or whatever? Which is why if they have one of those guys who'll read your 'energy' or whatever, they want something you wear all the time? So really a split could end up really different, feeling wise, no matter what. And some people start off as splits but they're still different people, on a whole bunch of levels.

Least that's how I'm seeing it. Not really my speciality, but there's some stuff in the memory here about it.

[kimandgary.livejournal.com]

Yes you are right to a point. I mean it is all a matter of perception, and splits could end up being very individual. I have heard of souls dividing, and then incarnating in different bodies. Sometimes many souls are made at the same time, and those individual people in seperate bodies are similar too. Some people have so much in common their energy feels very much the same, like soulmates. It is hard to tell, but deep down there is a sort of finger print to a soul. if you can pick up on that, then you know if someone is from a totally different source.