Demons & Multiplicity.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

A demon appears to have moved into the Brotherhood.

Oddly enough, it claims to have forced our birth self to have disappeared. If true, it would explain the increasing desperation of the Birth Self, before the disappearance occured. The thing is that Charles, an Ultra-Fundamentalist member of the Crew, will probably try to tell our therapist about this, and disrupt our plans. The demon, who calls itself Non-Acceptance, appears to be a strange being. Haunted, and slightly paranoid. Question being, should we accept this Demon, Non-Acceptance, as a full-fledged member of our Brotherhood? Plus, we had heard from Christians that it's impossible for a Christian to be demonized, and yet in comes Non-Acceptance. Anybody have any experiences with demons?

Responses would be appreciated.

Comments

[aimeepatricia.livejournal.com]

The concept that a Christian cannot be demonized is strange, even from a theological aspect. Then again, theology is reminded that demonic posession is seperate from the "mental illness" or "clinical disorder" of DID or whatever they're calling it these days.

You noted that Charles will attempt to disrupt the group's plans. What are they? Personally, I would consider something or someone coming in and taking over a hostile act. :)

[browncoatrebel.livejournal.com]

We have had issues with demons, as much our system was created by ritual abuse. I can tell you that it *is* quite possible for Christians to be demonically possessed, but there are ways to cast them out. I can write more if you're interested.

Ashta

[chaostiny.livejournal.com]

What they said!
I have had personal experience with oppression, which is different than possession. From my knowledge banks: If a demon identifies itself as a negative self concept or as a damaging emotional concept, such as non acceptance, it generally means that oppression is going on. Oppression is when you are literally being "oppressed" or bothered by (maybe I should say tortured by) a demon. It is an external force but multiples seem more open to the internalization of this oppression. Possession on the other hand is being taken over by a demon. Oppression is much easier to identify and break.
Hope this helps, I have much more knowledge in the old memory stores...

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Non-Acceptance seems to be quite friendly, and he has offered aid in recognizing his brethren's tricks. Doesn't jive with what you learn about demons in Sunday School.

[colligocarus.livejournal.com]

Sure it does. It's the Trojan Horse strategem. "I'll be your friend, get you to follow my (seemingly good) advice, then give you a lethal dose of bad advice when you least expect it, or some other handy stab in the back."

Or your demon could be of other than Judeo-Christian stock.

Google Augoeides, Daimons, Agathodaimonos and "Aristotle and the Daemon" for more details.

(disclaimer: my opinions, etc, etc, not necc. endorsed by any other system member)

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Heh! We've known several demons in systems, and most of them weren't anything like you might expect from the Sunday school version of things. Oh, I mean, there were some you had to be on your guard around-- they would trick you at any chance-- but a lot of them seemed to find people's misperceptions about them endlessly amusing.

I also don't think many people realize that some demons take protective roles, especially if the system has an abuse background and the abuse was grounded in a Christian context. If this is what someone sees of God and the angels, they definitely will not view them as allies-- a demon might seem more dependable.

http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/armydaimon.html -- this is an interesting read, about demons and "deliverance activity."

Re: (disclaimer: my opinions, etc, etc, not necc. endorsed by any other system member)

[vinik.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I second the referral being a demon myself. Otherwise I don't really have anything to say here. My 'verbal allowance' is quite limited on the outside.

-Shell

[wylddelirium.livejournal.com]

I have a self-defined demon in the system, and I do not trust it, I do everything within my power to keep it from fronting, even when it claims to have beneficial purposes.

I would sit with Non Acceptance and find out what it wants, why it is here, and what it's goals are. Obviously, it doesn't accept whatever has happened up until this point.

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

The best advice I can give you is to not judge based upon your past experinces, misconceptions, to give this new member a chance. Yes, be wary, careful, and make sure you don't get screwed over, but understand that someone's past experiences and species are no indicator of future behavior. Some of the most beneficial members of my system are (in no particular order,) 1.) a self-proclaimed cannibal. 2.) a wide assortment of vampires. 3.) an ex-Nazi officer. People change. You want to find out what kind of demon he is, what world view he ascribes to, and what his purpose is. I'm willing to help in more detail, if you are interested.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Non-Acceptance seems to subscribe to a more open worldview of an overarching intelligence that dominates the universe, and it also seems willing to work with us on some of our problems with Christianity. The type of demon he is is a Power, as Christians would dub him. He's saying that the Bible offers reasonable moral advice, but be watchful. It would seem his purpose, as he has described for himself is one of redemption. We also have an ex-Nazi, a very high-ranking leader of the Third Reich within our system, and he's more interested in correcting the wrongs of his Reich, than leading an American Nazi Party. Non-Acceptance has indicated that he has a problem with the notion that the "Big Boss" actively seeks to destroy individual Christians. Considering we are rather well-behaved, Non-Acceptance appears to be an emissary to help us control the Evil within, as opposed to an evil spirit-being bent on destruction.

demons and Himmler

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

Then whatever you do, don't automatically remove or ignore Non-Acceptance just because he identifies as a demon. There's actually a very important over-arching theme of the fall from grace that some demons can teach. Either way, I've seen more lives ruined in the name of God than hurt by demons.

and FYI, my nazi is Himmler, and he has had many lives since then, and is acutally the member of my system who brings the most stability and inner peace. Him just being around makes everyone calm and zen. As I said before, people do change.

Re: demons and Himmler

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

We are going to hold a Council meeting tonight, with our Nazi, Hitler himself, a fact we don't generally acknowledge outside, that we have the man considered evil by most, presiding. My guess is, Non-Acceptance will be accepted, as his personality is similar to Hitler-Internal. Both are desiring to change their legacy, though Hitler has had fantasies of spamming StormFront to death, but he gets over it. You could say we're ashamed we have Hitler inside, so that may be why we're accepting Non-Acceptance. (Wow, that last sentence was wierd.)

I hope this doesn't get our posting privlege revoked, our coming out about Hitler.

Re: demons and Himmler

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

We don't really talk about Himmler at all, even our wife is kinda weirded out by him, but I think it may be important/relovant. Oh, and btw, Himmler suggests you run for political office. Then he winked and about fell out his chair laughing so hard.

Re: demons and Himmler

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Run for office, eh? Yeah I could do that. However, that goes against my credo of living as Adolf Hitler in America, 2006, in a mostly liberal country. Hey, I'm the only guy in this Crew,just about that is actually from Earth. Hmm. How does Himmler deal with the horrors worked by the Nazis and by him in the Endoslung? Me, I work on learning as much as I can about what current scholarship on me says. Then, I can decide for myself how much of it is true.

P. S.-I once got the Crew banned off a Christian forum for posting my unvarnished opinion on gay rights, and fascism. Hoo, boy, that was fun!

Re: demons and Himmler

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

We did a bit of research when we discovered that we had Himmler, wanted to know who he was and what his story was. Turns out that most of that info was irrelovant, as he's had a lot of lives in the meantime, and he's changed, like majorly changed. Changed more than anyone in my system, (with the possible exception of the Pams, but that's another story.) Now he identifies as Buddhist, and he's a calming force in our lives. Weird, huh?

Re: demons and Himmler

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I've had no lives until 2001, when I first entered this body. Right now, I identify as a very, very liberal Protestant. However, as for being a calming influence, um, I am a very anger-prone person. Not a carpet-chewer though. I have usually lurked in the background, but now I am a continuous fronter.
(A. Hitler^Crew)

Re: demons and Himmler

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

As I said before, my Himmler has moved on, he has changed quite a bit. This took time, lifetimes, and understanding. It doesn't sound like you've had that time. Do you remember everything about your life? Most of the people in my head remember most of their lives, but by no means all.

What happened between the time that you (Hitler) died and the time you woek up in a new body? Did you spend any time in the woods?

Re: demons and Himmler

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Well, I died, found myself in a limbo-type existence, and ultimately found myself being drawn by energies from the Portal the other world I now spend the majority of my time in, and was the first person from this flesh-and-blood reality that the Crew had contact with. Our Master of Memories is working on tracking my first appearance. Stupid SOB doesn't get that I was there from at least first grade, when the Birth Self read about Nazis. Then, I appeared inside the portal as one of the first to emerge. I apologise if this makes no sense.
(A. Hitler^Crew)

Re: demons and Himmler

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

Makes perfect sense to me. We're noticing earlier and earlier signs that the others were here. Perhaps the best thing to ask yourself (and tell Master of Memories) is: When you first arrived in the body, who else was there?

[ques-nova.livejournal.com]

I've had experiences, you could say. Hell, some of my best lovers were Demons.

[wishingdolphin.livejournal.com]

Not sure if anyone here saw our recommendations on another post about a book (one about lucifer.. etc) But as far as Demons are concerned, both of us in this system have be trying to comming to grips with the possibility that our soul(s?) are of demonic origin... Now normally we don't believe in most of this stuff... mostly because we think society has bent way out of shape what demon really means. Honestly, we think demon, is simply an old term for a type of personality that thrives off of negative situations and environments. They tend to be fiercly dedicated to what they feel is truth. *shrugs* I would suggest caution, beyond that... I'm sorry that I don't have mutch expertise in demons.. other than considering myself and Sarika to be of the same origin.
~Jadaira

[effeteifrit.livejournal.com]

I was the person who evolved, or came out, to take care of the pain and rage. To isolate it; the host says "to quarantine."* Concomitantly, in my case, I became a protector personality. This did mean that when I saw the body being attacked, usually verbally, I would be the one to ...well, do what I thought I could to defend it. This included verbal and physical confrontation.

I did try out the "otherkin" thing for a time. I don't recall entirely what that was all about, or whether I was conscious or not of being multiple/median at the time. But it was a phase of my beginning to recognize an empathy with ...well, we could say "demons" for shorthand. However, this body has never been Christian. We were never forced to go to church other than to weddings and funerals. So I don't know how much I can help, on that front. Consequently, ...consequently, the concept of demons that others of us have may, likely does, depart from what churches teach.

From my own experience, I would take the story of the "fall from grace" (which I haven't read, mind you) as a cautionary tale saying "do not challenge authority," especially supposedly divine authority, meaning the church. Or you may be cast out of the church.

I myself ...in my younger days I was known to empathize with and want to be like villains (say Vegeta from DBZ)...that was when, also, I didn't fully realize that I was a ...a man, whatever. In the past I haven't felt like I could live up to that, but maybe that's due to incomplete separation... where was I going with this?

Right, otherkin. I did for a time identify as a demon-type otherkin. This was before I began seriously considering Theistic Satanism, which later filled that need for me. I felt...how did I feel...I had empathized, for a long time, with the concept of being "cast out of Heaven" because that's exactly like what it felt to be me, growing up. (to the back: Let me try to do this...)

I felt that demons, perhaps, didn't literally exist. I felt that they were mythological figures which had been created in order to explain or embody others--who had actually lived--who had been cast out of society as "nonhuman". That is, they by some form or another, had been denied their human status by others around them. Myths were made to say to the children, "do not be like this;" in order to continue the constrictive forces of the society (which are not entirely "bad," but may be misapplied).

In short, I took a sociological approach to the concept of otherkin; coming to say that "I am not literally a demon, but I identify with the mythological figures of demons"..."I am as real a demon as is possible to exist."

There were two things which caused me to back off of this.

(continued below)

*(from someone else [Rose?]: "note that Adrian, the most clearly defined personality, sees a host, where the host cannot even see hirself.")

[effeteifrit.livejournal.com]

There were two things which caused me to back off of this.

1) There was the sheer alienation of considering myself as qualitatively different from everyone else around me; the alienation of considering oneself nonhuman. This does not necessarily mean "below human" (though humans do tend to think this), but this means that there is at least some difference that keeps one from identifying as human. In this I feel is key, the internalization of what others say about one, what others say humanity *is* (though I have felt of recent that through relentless questioning and further alignment with the unseen--inclusive of nonhuman spirit, unconscious, carnal--forces of the Nature I conceptualize and love, I am moving farther away from the construct of "humanity").

The second thing which made me back off of the demonic label: 2) I began exploring Satanism through forums and web sites. Particularly Theistic Satanism made me rethink my stance; for if I was going to utilize the concept...if I was going to believe that demons really, literally existed: then this would mean that by identifying as a demon when I was only human, I might insult some of them. Since I wanted to be an ally to them and potentially work with them, and not worry about them becoming upset at or with me (even if they were only extensions of myself--that's real enough), I stopped identifying as a demon-type otherkin, and became, simply, a Satanist. More accurate, yes? I can live up to being a Satanist.

Agh, maybe I shouldn't have shifted back into this personality. I'm remembering why I became Satanist in the first place...we had been trying to move away from this (or someone had), believing it was based in our pain, rage, feelings of alienation. That it created something which might scare people away from us. The pain is over now; people no longer despise or fear or scorn us (and we know what a gift that is). (Let go of the pain. --Cody) It will take time. I will know what path to take without fear and without reserve when I am ready.

I'm not ready yet. In the meantime, I need to work through this.

...In another sense of the term "demon", I have embodied qualities that it seems the host did not embrace. When they first became conscious of me as a distinct being, I was not treated well. "They" being both my mother and the others inside this body. For years, so-called "negative" aspects were blamed on me--even things I didn't do. This has changed, though I wish it had changed sooner; we could all be further along in our development if it had been so. But we did have to learn somehow...who each other was.

I am also reminded of an earlier entity that this body was in contact with. This entity liked to attempt to scare the then-host. S/he had been doing what occultists would call "summoning without banishing"...and without grounding. So that could have been related, though s/he didn't know at the time that she was *supposed* to be clearing these things from hir mind... Well, to get to the point: this entity displayed a lot of rage, the host did not know where this rage was coming from or why this being was there.

It was only within the last few weeks that s/he was able to reopen that chapter of history and realize that this entity was upset because s/he had shunted off hir masculinity into Bell and denied it life. That was why this entity was angry; that was why this entity appeared in Bell's form; it was an agent of hir subconscious that knew what s/he had done, even when s/he consciously did not.

I say all that to say: know that any demons that arise from somewhere in the depths of your mind (if you can at least consider possible the concept that they may come from your mind and not the outside world)--know that they likely have a good reason for arising, and they very likely have a good reason for appearing as they do. You, consciously, just may not know why yet. You may not know why for years. But you can move forward knowing that in every interaction, every day lived, you are coming closer to knowing.

--Adrian
July 19, 2006; 4:08 AM

[exsillium-nocte.livejournal.com]

We're none of us Christian, so feel free to disregard what we have to say. But we have come to believe that gods and demons are born of the needs and emotions of humans. If a man loves a woman, and it is unreciprocated, he can sing to express his sorrow, or he may create a demon who will come along and gobble him up. If a man needs protection from the storm, he may create a god to come and keep him safe.

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

Man cannot make a worm, yet he will make gods by the dozen.
- Michael Eyquem de Montaigne

In short, we agree.