[identity profile] jhelai.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] multiplicity_archives
Oooh... This is interesting.
We have evolved beyond the limits of a single identity, instead leaving space within to learn to know every little detail about the depths of our mind. But that also means that we still merely have one mind, as we've only split this one into many. And all these identities still work together as one. Us. We no longer notice anything odd about the various personalities we express, unless when in situations where others might misunderstand our advanced version of extensive mentality. Hmm, that last bit came out strange.
Oh well, we've still never actually met anyone who practiced this form of consciousness. So feel free to discuss the lack of limits in mind with us, as we are eager to find out exactly how different we really are compared to other ones without such limits.

Date: 2006-06-07 10:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kasiawhisper.livejournal.com
my mini group is a bit like that within our larger group.. though sometimes we're a bit more separate from each other than other times.. it can be difficult to tell the difference between ourselves as well.. we'll interchangeably use the names: Kasia, Amirah, and Whisper (and a few others).. sometimes it's as though we're one person and other times we feel very separate..

and of course, there's the others within the larger group who are very separate from our mini group, but this is our own little group within it.. so, yes, we can understand a merging feeling into one person.. :)

Date: 2006-06-07 11:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kasiawhisper.livejournal.com
no, don't lack contact with them.. I was talking about my own personal group within the larger group.. :) alot of them have their own journals and things, so it isn't like they never front with the body..

I don't think we created ourselves in the sense that you might mean.. other than those who've actually given birth to babies.. I guess that might be a form of creation..

my identities evolved as a result of things that happened in my life? or do you mean the body's history? because my own history is different than the body's history..

and our little group doesn't merge in the sense of becoming one person, because we are still separate while being one.. if that makes sense.. one and many.. might be hard to understand, but that's sort of what I mean..

and we're also separate from the others in the group, who we do have regular contact with as well.. like Jenilee and Henna and the others..

here's a rough picture that we drew up the other day that might help explain what I mean.. pic here (http://pics.livejournal.com/kasiawhisper/pic/000t7fh4)..

this is a very small handful of those in our group.. some of the main fronters are along the top line.. our mini-group is the group in the middle between Jenilee and Romei.. in a sense, it's like we're on entity within the larger whole, but we have a sense of separate singleness.. if that makes any sense.. hope this helps!

Date: 2006-06-07 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] annabellelaw.livejournal.com
Wow! That's so more complex than mine.
There's just me & Ash.

Date: 2006-06-07 02:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moon-pepper.livejournal.com
It is hard to put together in a 2D scale. There are many more that can be added to this first level group.

In Henna's group on the far left, Marya is her sister and Haley is Marya's daughter. The 3 names underneath Henna are her 3 daughters. Benjamin is her son with Horus.

There are numerous more names to add to the Chex Mix group, but we placed in 3 for an example. The same with the Clique teen group. Not everyone within the teens age group are in the Clique though, the same with the Chex Mix.

We're working on making a more in-depth image. This outline was made in 15 minutes, so it isn't very detailed actually. It is nice to see on paper.

Date: 2006-06-07 10:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kasiawhisper.livejournal.com
we have separate minds.. we aren't all squished into one mind.. I'm confused what you mean.. separate minds, the only thing that is really the same is that we access this realm via one single physical body..

like, for instance, Jenilee doesn't have other people in her mind.. it's just her.. she can hear the others of us, but they aren't in her mind.. the same with Romei and alot of the others..

the only ones of us who do share a mind with other consciousness are those of us who have mini-groups ourselves..

and yep, we have names.. it makes it easier for others know what to call us too.. how do people call to you if you don't have a name? I guess you could go by numbers or something.. no biggie to me.. :) as long as you guys are all happy with it.. you know? :)

yep, my own history is different than the body's history.. it only means one thing: that my life and my memories and my history timeline is different than what occurred while the others were using this body before I arrived here.. :)

in some ways you guys sound a bit like newborns.. are you newly born? it can be confusing at times to understand how things work in a strange environment.. perhaps there's someone that can help you with relating to things around you..?

no, everyone doesn't exist inside this physical body at the same time.. only a few of the main fronters are around here usually at the same time.. everyone else is elsewhere.. back at the mansion or in school or somewhere else in the Kasiya realm, living their lives and raising their kids.. :)

our realm isn't inside this body.. we didn't swallow a universe inside of us.. it's another dimension.. another realm that exists elsewhere.. this body is like a doorway between the two.. does that make sense? well, hope things go well for you guys..

Date: 2006-06-09 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kasiawhisper.livejournal.com
What do you consider "reality"? Is that what you call this earth realm where the computer dwells? Or is it state of being for you?

Kasia

Date: 2006-06-09 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kasiawhisper.livejournal.com
actually, our realm revolves around Chaos, so it may not be as peaceful as you think.. it is something we are accustomed to though..

for us, being here in the "earth realm" is alot easier than our own for several reasons.. the main reason being that Order and Chaos are a great deal more balanced here than where most of us are from..

as such, we are able to create with a greater sense of ease.. only because there is less of a struggle to make a thing or put things in order..

an example would be living on this world and then living on its moon.. you wouldn't have to try as hard in order to move because the gravity is alot less.. you would also have to learn how to adjust your movements to be a bit more gentler, or else you could end up jumping a little further than you intended.. especially if you continued to use the same efforts that you used while on this world.. that is a bit how it is for us here to a degree..
-Amirah, Kasia & Pepper

We understand what you are saying about how reality is viewed for you. We don't use the word "reality". Everything to us just is. If something exists then it is real, even if it is something that is imagined. An imagined thing is as real as an unimagined thing. How can one truly find the difference? It is all in perception. It is all in beliefs. It is all in experience. It is all in what one is capable of understanding. With or without preconceived notions. Perhaps it is simpler to say "all things are possible". Even that does not cover everything.
-Bryce

Date: 2006-06-07 11:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hellmutt.livejournal.com
Hiya. I'm not a multiple and maintain a level of scepticism around people who claim to be. I'm an - well, "aspecting singleton" is one phrase I've used in the past to give others a rough idea, but then a lot of people come and disagree with me about what "aspect" means. I'm laid-back about terminology for the most part and don't believe anyone "owns" it. I find the ideas and imagery useful or fun to play with, but don't define myself by them.

I said above that I'm sceptical. I think there isn't as much division between "personalities" and "moods" or "whims" as people think. As I mentioned above, I like to play with that division and I show it in various ways. One example is names, which I collect like a freaking magpie... I've adopted one single catch-all nickname for the whole of myself, but willing to answer to other names if people care to talk to a particular "aspect" of me (there's that word again; well anyway, I hope you understand roughly what I mean by it).

Another playful example. I describe myself as "I" around normal people, and sometimes use the royal "we" around close friends'n'family because I like the unusual feeling I get when saying it. I have also been claiming to be a god for long enough that my friends completely ignore it, just as I'd hoped.

Date: 2006-06-09 11:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sethrenn.livejournal.com
There are a lot of people who get multiplicity confused with having different moods, so it's easy to get the impression that that's all multiplicity is. If Susie always seems to be unhappy and Frank always seems to be angry and Fifi seems to have nothing on her mind but sex, when they supposedly come out, you're probably justified in concluding that someone has taken different aspects of themselves and given them different names and thinking this is multiplicity.

On the other hand, if Susie, Frank and Fifi each have all the emotions that a normal person is expected to have, and their switching seems to have nothing to do with whether their emotions changed, I don't think that can be classified as having anything to do with moods or whims. We're talking about people who differ not in the emotions they're inclined to, but their sense of who they fundamentally are.

Some therapists were actually responsible for perpetuating a lot of the misconception that all multiplicity is a case of separate emotions being recognized as different people. Their model for multiplicity essentially did say that one original person would split off their capacity for anger or sexuality or whatnot into a fragment, and that two-dimensional 'alters' were to be expected. While there are people who fit the model of a single dissociated identity, that's not the same as several selves who share a body, which is more along the lines of what our personal definition of multiplicity would be.

Date: 2006-06-07 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rookguard.livejournal.com
Just as in pretty much everything else, we have pretty widely differeing opinions of what our condition actually is. There are some of us who believe we're just creations of a bored mind, some who believe our perceived multiplicity is simply a medical condition that we could have treated, if we wished (though those who suggest that certainly don't seem interested in any sort of integration), and there are those who take the more metaphysical explanation. I won't even attempt to get into the latter, it sounds crazy when i read it back to myself.

The point is that I don't really know whether im clinically plural or not, and none of us really want to find out. Knowing definitively destroys the ability we have to all be correct simultaneously. Belief is more than enough.

But to the OP (and more on topic), whatever else you may believe, don't ever think that there aren't any more secrets in your mind. No matter how hard you introspect or meditate, there are always dark little corners we veer away from instinctively. And there are good reasons for this. There are parts of the human mind, EVERY human mind, that don't bear much examination. We all have monsters and animals making homes in the darkest of our unconscious thickets. At the very least, be prepared to accept some very unsavory things about yourself.

But here we are trying to walk your path for you. If this is something that ends up being pertinent to you, you'll discover it on your own. All we can offer is admonishment.

Date: 2006-06-08 06:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rookguard.livejournal.com
Monsters are trickier things than that. There are always more than you think, and they are seldom as obvious as slavering beasts and gargantuan horrors. No matter how many you find, there's always one more, one worse, than what you think.

This is the trick. There's not really any end to the monsters. The deeper you dive to look for them, the more accepting we become of those who've come before, until even the vilest villains can seem to be honest bystanders in an introspective foray for the simple truths of self.

There is no pre-determined depth to humanity's depravity; the bottom is wherever you stop digging. But there's really to reason for me to expect anyone else to learn from my own litany. This is the sort of thing any individual has to figure out for themself. Learning the nature of evil, the darkness that lurks beneath the thin veneer of civilization that nearly every human being displays, is a worthy passtime. But learn about it so that you can fight it. It may not be a battle that anyone can win, but its certainly a battle worth fighting. It is this consciousness that allows us to fight what billions of years of evolution have made us that gives humanity an opportunity to prove it is more than a colony of cells.

I'm obliged to add that not all of us agree on this.

Date: 2006-06-09 09:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rookguard.livejournal.com
I'm sorry, you've gotten a very one-sided from us. You see, the same one of us who is so wont to post on these boards is the same one with the fixation on redemption and innocence. She is repulsed by reality just as you are, and she would see me driven off because, among other things, I am the constant reminder to her of our corruption, the animal inside of us that unifies all of humanity.

I am the monster she so snidely derides. I don't typically post here because I value our anonymity, and because I am sceptical of most of her explanations for our division. She calls us the sum of this body's animal influences mingled with reflection and logic. She is afrid of us, and she is right to be afraid. She is right when she says that there are always worse things hiding in the unconscious forests, demons and dinosaurs that beg to be drawn into the light, and still, I am the one she fears and reviles most. Its almost an honor, really.

You see, my conflict with her, her conflict with me, is what defines us. No matter how our faces change, what other people come and go through our War-garden of thought, we remain constant. Our battle for supremacy does not end. She has remarked on this in other places, and has said that she knows that neither of us is able to win, that victory would ultimately mean death, a cessation. Yet she continues to fight, harping on the criticality of balance within our shared mind.

On the other hand, I fight because I enjoy it. She will whine and moan about how unsettling it is to constantly be torn by inner strife, but nothing so assures me of my own vitality. I have embraced animosity, even as I am clearly able to perceive and comprehend its alternative. Animosity is the purest state we can find, almost like a concise bible encoded into every human's mind from birth. It requires no great understanding, and suffers no questions. It is pure, unfettered, singular purpose. It is the obsolecence of social order and the harbinger of resounding clarity.

She'll be back to claim about how hurtful and callous we can be. I won't even bother trying to deny it. I fail to see how these things are flaws at all, and have no reason to be ashamed of them.

But do you know what beings me more joy than anything else? Knowing that there is one of me in you, in ALL of you. I am true universal humanity, blind and bloodthirsty.

---

I'm really sorry about that. He was quite insistent on speaking his mind in this case, and, disturbing as I find him, I don't want to discourage him from being open.

Date: 2006-06-10 04:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rookguard.livejournal.com
I would love to continue this, but i think we should do it somewhere else. There are those here with little stomach for what i have to say.

Date: 2006-06-08 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] posywink.livejournal.com
We are intrigued by your posts. Like you all, we make a very clear distinction between imagination and reality. In Blue, we are a group of adults, all late 20s to mid 30s, all unmarried without children, sharing a great big house. Some of us have other jobs, and all of us maintain strong ties with Entity, a self-styled “frontier justice society” that works for neither good nor evil (which is why your “evil is merely a word created by humans” statement caught our eye). However, in real life, we’re all the creations of an imaginative but sensitive person who is too angry and scared to go through life alone in her body. We wouldn’t pass ourselves, Entity, or any other aspect of Blue (save for our creator herself) off as real. Everything about our system can be explained without referring to otherworldly phenomena, as none of us believe in the supernatural. We simply say that we’re part of her imagination and that anything is possible there.

Like you, we focus our energies into our imagined world. Our creator, Julia, has set up tasks for us in real life, and we carry them out. We’re working to become detached from real life since Julia has decided that it has nothing to offer her. As our Kara says, “Real life is a business.” Cold-hearted, unmovable, uncaring. We like Blue so much better. We’ve set up our interests and passions and relationships there, not here, because that’s where we can flourish.

Our setup differs from yours, however, in that we live as separate people with separate minds, even though we all originated from the same mind. However, we’ve noticed that we complement Julia by handling things that she struggles with – compliance to authority, sexuality, humor, violence, malice, etc. The literal truth is that she subconsciously created us that way. The story in Blue is that Entity chose us to be Julia’s housemates because we have abilities and qualities that she needs. See what we mean about separating imagination and fact?

-- Patrick, with input from Kara and Zoe

Date: 2006-06-09 07:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sethrenn.livejournal.com
We have evolved beyond the limits of a single identity, instead leaving space within to learn to know every little detail about the depths of our mind. But that also means that we still merely have one mind, as we've only split this one into many.

Have you ever heard of the "median" concept, or do you find it useful? We were trying to get some publicity for it a few years ago but didn't really succeed, as the project it was part of was mishandled from start to finish. You seem like an example of a person who could describe yourself as a median, though. I actually haven't met many true medians (apart from [livejournal.com profile] lilairen), just multiples who thought they couldn't be multiple because they didn't lose time or knew each other too well whatever. So I'm interested in how you work, because it sounds more like what you've written.

Aude

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