Co-consciousness

[rockstargrrl.livejournal.com]

hmm...
well i had therapy today and the end result was placing the dilemma back on me. if i get too close to people, i get suicidal. if i stay separated and in parts, i don't have full awareness of my life.

last week, after a three hour therapy session consisting largely of my sobbing for 2.5 hours of it, we came to the conclusion that for me to become attached to anyone/anything means that i get suicidal and need to kill myself. i know that it doesn't make sense, but it's a firmly held belief for me.

i'm wondering what it's been like, for those of you who have, to develop co-consciousness. My therapist says that it entails going back and forth from part to part while trying to maintain awareness of what other parts are doing/saying/feeling. my alters/parts are separated into ages, and to some extent different emotions.

she says that she can't guarantee that i will be okay or that this will be a safe process for me, but that if i want healing, the route to go is through all of this. i'm kind of scared. well more than kind of. i'm scared of regressing and/or losing control of what little i do have and ending up in the hospital. i'm scared of not being able to maintain control of myself and function in everyday life while doing this work. the alternative of course, is to stay separated and unaware and puzzled by my own behaviors.

any comments/suggestions/feedback would be much appreciated.

{x-post to multiplicity and fragmentedminds

Comments

[dreamingkat.livejournal.com]

hmmm... I am not sure what to say about the issues, because I've always kinda been me... if anything I'm fragmenting more as I age... I've always been able to get buy with telling people I have a really bad memory. :)

I've been depressed, suicidal, and had some mild psychosis before, but i've honestly never found a whole heck of a lot of help in profesional type ppl. that being said, I've also found that occasionally, when things are overwhelming, checking into the county zoo mental hospital for a few days gets me a few positive results. Firstly, it reminds the ppl who deal with me that I do have serious problems. Secondly, it reminds me that I could be so much worse off, and that I better be nice to the ppl who deal with me, because the alternative is being in that place for a long time. And it gives me a break. for a few days, I don't have to deal with anything more important than making sure I get a reclining chair (or maybe even a bed if I nap at odd hours) for long enough to sleep. I'm never really admitted, I just spend a day or two in the "waiting room" place.

I'm under the impression that you have been diagnosed as DD/MPD and your therapist is trying to "integrate" you - make you all one person. This may or may not be the best thing, you need to discuss the options with your therapist. there are options. co-conciousness is different than integration. we are all aware of each other, most of the time, in the same way that your aware that you wear a ring. It's there; sometimes it snags, sometimes you play with it, most of the time you ignore it. We argue back and forth, and sometimes kats in charge and sometimes willd is in charge and sometimes we all go out and let a "watcher" take care of the shell. it tends to be with the situation, but feeling strong emotioins will trigger changes too...

anyway, I don't know what to say really... I'm just kinda babling on because I don't want you to feel all alone.

[lettersfromus.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that it works for you, but the hospital isn't really a good place for us. Usually what happens is that most of us rest, but the 17 and 13 year olds come out in full force and create all sorts of problems in the hospital (lots of adolescent defiance with lots of adult thinking and strength).

Our therapist hasn't said so much about direct integration as about closing the gaps between parts, starting with co-consciousness. In fact, she's not really for integration because she keeps trying to reassure different parts that no one is going to go away.
~24~

[ninquelote.livejournal.com]

Well, here's a question-- what are you using as the definition of co-consciousness? We were having a discussion about this the other day with friends, what exactly co-con implies-- our personal definition of it, as a group, is simply having two or more people out front at the same time and all of them having some awareness of what the others at front are thinking and feeling. It's been described, for better or worse, as a sort of 'telepathy' feeling, which we think, in our experience as a multiple system, is fairly accurate. It's not so much 'going back and forth' as that there's more than one person there at once, and each is aware of the other.

On the other hand, it's true that every system is different, and our system isn't the kind where each person represents a part of an original one or one main emotion. So your mileage may vary. But however you look at it, I think there are -some- commonalities of experience running through any kind of plural identity.

It's been my personal experience that therapists often base their definitions of things on the experiences of just one or two clients, or from what they read in a book or heard from other therapists. I'm not saying your therapist doesn't know what she's doing, but whenever you have a singlet treating a multiple, there's always going to be those realms of experience they can't truly understand, because they've never personally experienced it. So I can see why you wanted to ask here.

OTOH, she seems to be confusing co-consciousness with communal memory. A lot of -multiples- make this mistake, so I wouldn't be terribly surprised that a singlet made it. It's obvious that your system as a whole does have definite problems-- I don't mean this to be belittling, I mean it does seem fairly obvious from the situation you described. So it sounds like you guys really need to -communicate-, whether through co-consciousness or not, and I don't see how that could possibly lead to -less- control, if you can all get to know each other, know what everyone else is feeling and their needs and desires, and you'll be able to help each other work on your respective issues. I wonder if that was what your therapist meant when she said it would be healing, because you'll be able to provide support for each other.


Anthea

[lettersfromus.livejournal.com]

I would say that our definition, and the therapist's definition, of co-consciousness is very similar to what you describe. She talks about it as one part being out but another part, or multiple other parts, being able to observe and understand what's going on. The way things work for us is that when something comes up or someone comes out, the host 'backs out' and is unable to stay in control emotionally and psychologically.

With regards to my therapist's experience level, I would like to think that not only is she experienced, but I have a certain amount of grace to not judge her by the 'roster' of clients that she's had with DID. Actually what attracted me to her is the fact that she is highly skilled in EMDR...something that helped the 9 year old in the hospital immensely.

I'm not sure what you mean by communal memory to be able to comment...
~24~

Communal Memory

[dreamingkat.livejournal.com]

we have a communal memory, for the most part. In our case, it means that the parts that did not experience something directly (like willd did not do dishes this morning) can go back and review it. The odd part in our case is that many times when we are viewing/remembering memories that are not ours, it's like viewing them from a video cam mounted on the top-back of the head. We're aware of the emotions being felt, but it's like there is a gausy curtain there, and we know that it's wasn't really me feeling that, but someone else in the system. The other problem is that we don't have a very good indexing system - remembering things takes a bit of work, and we almost always need a few clues.

On the other hand, skills are located in a different part of the mind - we never have any problems sharing them. For instance, DK fronted for all the programing classes, and is the only one who ever gets a strong desire to program. But myself and willd have both managed to have converstaions about programing (and scribble down bits of code) when cornered by classmates. Without any stress or anything. The knowledge was just there.

anyway, this is probably enough babbling for now. hope things are going well for you. :)

Re: Communal Memory

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, what dreamingkat said. :D Basically, the knowledge of what happened is there, just not (usually) the emotional experience of it; but all the important things get dumped into common knowledge.


-anth

co-operate or mearly co-habitate.

[leathermenace.livejournal.com]

whether you learn to be co-concious with your others or intigrate them the outcome is pretty much the same. You getting to what split you in the first place. It's a tough roe to hoe but well worth the effort. I have lost time only twice in the past two years. It's kinda nice to know for sure that I haven't gone on some killing spree or something. Missing time was my biggest problem. the not knowiing where I had been or what I had been up too was real maddening for me.

A couple of things my therapist told me that helped a whole lot are, "with co-conciousness I would not be losing a part of myself or tucking them away, but growing to know those parts of myself" and that "saw tooth recovery (ie two steps forward one step back) is still recovery, because you still come out one step ahead of where you started."

As for getting suicidal when getting close to people.... Boy can I ever relate. My journal is full of how much I hate the human race, just because of hat very thing.

Re: co-operate or mearly co-habitate.

[lettersfromus.livejournal.com]

I strongly disagree with you that co-consciousness and integration are the same, or have the same outcome. The notion of integration scares many of the parts of us. Co-consciousness would probably be a more comfortable arrangement.

This might sound odd, but losing time doesn't really bother me. It doesn't bother the 27 year old because she doesn't get emotionally invested in what's going on for fear of backing out. I tend to be able to at least piece together what's going on even when I do lose time, so it works for me. The others I can't so muchspeak for.

Re: co-operate or mearly co-habitate.

[leathermenace.livejournal.com]

ok never mind

Re: co-operate or mearly co-habitate.

[lettersfromus.livejournal.com]

I wasn't trying to shut you down, nor do I think it's important that we necessarily share the same definitions of working constructs. Just because I disagree doesn't mean that I'm angry or anything. Sorry if that's the impression that you got...

Re: co-operate or mearly co-habitate.

[leathermenace.livejournal.com]

nope no feelings at all about it either way just tired of defending every post i make

Re: co-operate or mearly co-habitate.

[lettersfromus.livejournal.com]

I guess that's just it. I wish you didn't feel like you needed to defend your posts. This is an open forum, and we all have the right tos ay what we want here as long as it doesn't hurt others. That includes disagreeing or whatever...

If we all agreed on the same things, most communities would be fairly boring, I think, and the fact that everyone has a different way of thinking and doing things makes it more interesting to me.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend everything you say; I wish you could say what you want/need to, and know that you've been heard without feeling criticized.
~24~

Re: co-operate or mearly co-habitate.

[leathermenace.livejournal.com]

wouldn't that be nice

Co-consciousness vs cooperation vs integration

[leathersammie.livejournal.com]

I can see many parallels between co-consciousness and integration. But both require cooperation both on the part of the host and on the part of the alters. Not just one, but all of the alters. It isn't as though one can do what all need to do in order to achieve the desired outcome. It appears to me, at least in the conversations I am seeing so far, that the outcome in most cases is living one's life in a manner that is least disruptive.

I see quite a bit of nit picking of certain phrases, taken out of context, and that is not conducive to communication within a group of people (meaning this community.)

Perhaps reading a person's entire post, and making the attempt to understand what they are saying, and that they are expressing their viewpoints based on their own experience would help the communication. I know one person's way of coping is not going to work for everyone, but it is very important for us to see how others deal with issues that come up. Perhaps if the things I am trying aren't working, I will try some of the others I see here. Obviously none of them are wrong. There is no wrong or right. There is only what works for each of us.

There is a lot of very hard work involved in the recovery process, and that work, even the recovery process itself may not have anything to do with the fact that we dissociate.

Hells bells, the alters can stay, it's the issues that need to go.

I recommend less quibbling over semantics and more reaching out a helping hand.

~Sammie

Re: Co-consciousness vs cooperation vs integration

[lettersfromus.livejournal.com]

"I see quite a bit of nit picking of certain phrases, taken out of context, and that is not conducive to communication within a group of people (meaning this community.) I recommend less quibbling over semantics and more reaching out a helping hand."

I can only assume you're referring to me when you say these things. I am very much an intellectual, and for someone to use a construct in a certain way that I don't understand it, I would like to understand it in their ways to be able to get the full meaning of what they are saying. I hardly find it nit-picking or quibbling...and find I can best respond or think about what someone is saying when I understand how they are explaining something.

I'm sorry if that's not how you do things, but as I said to leathermenace, it wasn't meant in a harmful way.

Re: Co-consciousness vs cooperation vs integration

[leathersammie.livejournal.com]

Actually, yes, yours was one of the posts I was referring to when I mentioned taking things out of context. I rarely use statements like "I strongly disagree" when someone has stated a concept I do not understand fully. Perhaps that has worked for you, but when I am unclear about another person's meaning I have found statements like "Would you mind explaining your theory?" to be far more enlightening and less combative.

I saw someone mention earlier (I forget the name) that sometimes they wonder if they are making it all up, or if the perception of others is that it is made up.

Immediately afterward, someone who had taken part of that statement out of context, and saw only the words "made up" got upset and spouted off that *they* are not made up.

It's never fair to anyone to take bits of a sentence out of context, and allow our anger, fear or frustration to do the typing for us.

Hopefully, everyone will try to read the posts of others in their entirety and understand always that they are made from only *that* person's experience and understanding of a situation. We all cope differently. What works for one may or may not work for everyone, but I believe strongly that hearing how others cope with this situation and their solutions for getting by are valuable tools we can all benefit from.

Re: Co-consciousness vs cooperation vs integration

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

I think there might be a lot of cases in this thread of people reading posts and having emotional gut reactions. :\ Personally, I've found that if someone else says something that makes you angry, the best thing to do is to write out exactly what you want to say, unpleasantries and all-- and then, delete it. Then go through and write something more diplomatic. Abraham Lincoln used to do this, so it's hardly impolite or unprecedented, heh heh. :D

As for integration vs. co-consciousness: Our system essentially agrees with what David Caul, the therapist who treated Billy Milligan, said about treating disordered systems: "It seems to me that after treatment you want a functional unit, be it a corporation, a partnership, or a one-owner business." The goal is essentially cooperation-- no one way of achieving it is better than another, overall, except insofar as one thing might be best for the system in question. (We know, for instance, that integration is not right for us. Tried it sans therapist, didn't work.)

The goal is basically to get cooperation of some sort. You don't even have to have co-consciousness, co-presence, or communal memory, just some way to communicate-- whether it's writing things down in a notebook or whatever. We know several functional systems who have almost no memory sharing, but they've figured out ways to make it work, because they feel more comfortable not being co-present or co-conscious.

And agreed on the "issues need to go" comment. We're doing therapy for OCD, with a therapist who knows we're plural, and she understands we have absolutely no intention of integrating-- just on fixing the issues that were keeping us from functioning normally in certain aspects of our lives, which in and of themselves really have nothing to do with the fact that there are many of us.