[identity profile] littlenephew.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] multiplicity_archives
Hello. Since I am altogether new to LJ, I apologize if I've duplicated this post. I've read many of the community posts, and appreciate the thoughts expressed. Even through drifting in and out, and a general numbness, I've done my best to absorb those contributions.

The issue I'm working on presently is integration. I know I don't fully comprehend it, but I'm resisting the process in fear of losing my only friends. Those within. I know I must reconcile this, but I feel alone enough as it is, and the thought of losing my dearest ones causes me to feel empty, even just thinking about it.

I anyone can offer any insight and experience to helping me understand this, I will be most grateful. Sincerely yours.

Date: 2005-11-23 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
*Glomps and snuggles becose of the cute icon ^^;;;*

*Giggles*

hehe

I totaly understand, only got one friend IRL around where I live.... times right now are rather upseting and stressfull.... I rather need thise 'iner friends' right about now

Date: 2005-11-23 04:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] repentence.livejournal.com
Your icon is cute too, you know! Both are. :)

Date: 2005-11-23 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
thank you

and it's not like you HAVE to integrate....

psyciretrest may sugest it but they won't make you =p

Date: 2005-11-23 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stealthdragon.livejournal.com
psyciretrest may sugest it but they won't make you

Also, they physically can't make you. There's no magical way to fiddle with someone elses' mind(s) like that. All of the choices involved belong to you and your brainmates.

- Us

Date: 2005-11-23 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
well they said there drugs that will cut them off and while they do that they will work with you to intigrate

Date: 2005-11-24 12:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-nanonyan.livejournal.com
I can say with authority that it is true.. we were held against our will and drugged. That's why I have problems letting go of front! Heh.. doctors suck. That was hell.

Date: 2005-11-24 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
ick...

get comited by some one?

Date: 2005-11-24 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-nanonyan.livejournal.com
By our employer last year. Just once one of the littles came out during work and of course they didn't understand. We were honest when the people at the place were asking their questions and since one of us was the typical suicidal teenager at the time we got committed to a maximum security cell with straps and getting woke up at weird times for injections and so on.

It only lasted the first couple days but for the first week or two we still had to ask for them to unlock the bathroom and they had to watch us because they were afraid we'd drown ourselves in the toilet or something stupid like that.

Got so screwed up from it that we had to go on disability, which of course I am now taking advantage of so I can restore the system to its former glory.

Date: 2005-11-24 10:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
*pouts and hugs*

This is why I am not honest with my parents.....

Only person that knows everything is a few friends that live like 300 miles~otherside of the world away and my counsler

And only reson he knows is he's got one of those cant tell anyone unless i tell him he can things going on

Date: 2005-11-24 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sethrenn.livejournal.com
Are you still taking the drugs they prescribed for you there? If you are, that could be a major difficulty in trying to get things back to normal.

Date: 2005-11-24 11:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
antidepresents and moodstablizers are a big help if you are seriusly depressed...

drugs arn't bad.... taking them when you don't need them is bad

Date: 2005-11-25 02:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-nanonyan.livejournal.com
Went off of everything, don't worry. ^^

Date: 2005-11-24 07:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadedmosaic.livejournal.com
Whoa Wait a minute How can you and your friends even communicete on all that bunk?
Listen Nobodycan make you take the drugs. I know this from a personal recent experience where a plan of Integraton took place by druging the Birthling daily.

Unless you have legitimate health reasons to be on meds than ya should not be at all on that much.

If the drugs are being used as a plan to cut you off from your mates progressively why are you going along with it? Pleez for your own self shake yourself loose from the fog the drugs our keeping you in and re- think this.

You do not have to integrate at alland LOSE your friends but instead have good co conciousness by communicating, and your icons our too cute. Hang in there, dont lose you& Yours Good Luck!

Toni & Elaine

Date: 2005-11-24 07:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadedmosaic.livejournal.com
than again if you want to go ahead and integrate becaus eit feels right in your mind no matter what your heart is saying only you know/

I guess the way this si writen it jsut sounds as if some one or outside force is pressuring you to do something you really do not want to do.
I f I misunderstoodI am sorry . But in a pressurized Integration the more drugged a T can get you the more you may be persauded to do anything your told we was jsut worrying about you
Toni & Elaine

Date: 2005-11-24 10:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
look them up

there a mood stablizer, an antidepresent, and asleep pill for insominacs...

hehe...

sounds like things i coudl use acutaly XD

true though.... there are drugs that can not only cut you off from your 'iner friends' but down right kill them....

... some times losing parts of you is a good thing, like when there psychodic killers or something, but no... if your happy with being a multiple then you shouldn't be taking drugs for it....

Date: 2005-11-24 10:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
Note had a friend who had some nasty personalites

2 out of 5 of them where a danger to others.... one being a sicotic killer... and other thought he was the satan...

so he was given drugs to supress and integrate the good ones and 'kill' off thsoe two

Date: 2005-11-24 06:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sethrenn.livejournal.com
I've never understood why so often the response to people in multiple systems having violent ideations or behaviour is "get rid of them" rather than "let's see what underlying problems they have which are causing them to think/do these things, and if they can be helped."

Maybe it's the perception of people in systems as parts of an original and so the idea is that anyone who does act out is an unredeemable "bad part."

A couple of convicted criminals have tried to use multiplicity as a form of insanity defense. This doesn't work for murder, and a lot of them (like Kenneth Bianchi) were judged, probably rightly, to be faking it. I've heard of it working for things like theft and shoplifting, but nowadays the courts tend to reflexively throw it out.

We have someone in-system who was, once, several years back, dead-set on wanting to kill a specific person. And I don't doubt he could have done it, if he'd had enough opportunities. But there was more to him than this and we didn't want to hurt him and the rest of the system by taking a drug that would destroy all communication. There's no drug that will just target the ones you don't like and save all the ones you do. I don't know what drug your friend was given but a lot of doctors nowadays will just tell you that you're integrated if you can't hear from any of the others anymore. Of course they shouldn't be allowed to behave violently, but even Texas doesn't hand out the death penalty that liberally.

He turned out in the end not to be any sort of omgpureevil but actually a very complex person, with hangups like anyone else. He's changed in many ways since getting over his fixation on that. He's got a lot of good qualities, even if he denies them at times. Sometimes you hear about things happening in more MPD-like systems with the "scary persecutor alters" (although he was never quite that) actually turning out to be strong-willed people trying to express themselves, who have a lot of qualities that can benefit the whole group, and end up becoming helpful to it in the end.

Date: 2005-11-24 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
..... trust me ... from what i've seen of him he wasn't some one that could be helped......

If he was a single person he would just get locked up in some institue for the rest of his life.....


getting rid of him made a heck of a lot more sence than tring to intigrate or help him in his case....

normaly i would think such is a bad thing... but I knew him a little.... and hurd a lot from others about him.... he was one seriously fucked up guy that was delt with acordidly

Date: 2005-11-25 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] draegonhawke.livejournal.com
[Khor]

Expedience.

You can try to redeem everyone and it's nice to think you can, but you get to a level of authority when it's not that person's job to redeem them, it's their job to fix the problem. So let the 'system members' reign in the troublemaker, and let them get help specifically to do that when it's needed, but somewhere along the line there's a man whose job it is to pull the trigger.

Date: 2005-11-25 05:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] draegonhawke.livejournal.com
...and I'm pretty sure that by saying that he's not saying that it happens exactly as often as it should or whatever, but Khor is rather averse to making concessions within his point. <`´<

Date: 2005-11-24 02:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadedmosaic.livejournal.com
Hi My Name is Elaine and I am only 17 but I gotta tell you I have neve rknown of a psychotic killer that was multiple unless it was in a movie or fiction book. the Multilles I know would never hurt a flea
Thnx,Elaine

Date: 2005-11-24 03:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
As stated above my friend's was...

well... not technicaly....

not a killer if you haven't killed anyone... and to everyones best knowlage he nevere did.... but not for a lack of tring....

but he deffently tried to kill a few people....



the other bad one didn't try and kill people so much as scare the fuck out of them or beat them to a pulp if they pissed him off...

Date: 2005-11-26 06:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadedmosaic.livejournal.com
Ok I'm sorry I was wrong but I thought like for example we in the gang with the adults have a outside person we think of killing if we had the chance all the time but because of our inner moral code we would not allow the 3 people that want him dead to hurt him cause more than anything its just wrong .

Like wishing and thinking about it some say in the Biblical sense make you a doer of the deed you were thinking, but we think all people think about it sometimes and it does not make us that bad or bad enough to be gotten rid of, even mixed up with drugs which is another way causeit happened to us that way ....its a slowr daeth but never the less a death

Hey just wondering also are you from New York, New York or Brooklyn? I wondered cause of your accent in spelling , cause we have one who types like she sounds from the South and you type like New York a little ?
Thnx Peace Elaine & Serinna .

Date: 2005-11-26 06:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azraile.livejournal.com
i think the doctors where right to do that.... but i can see why you might beleave it was wrong...


And my friend was from Bosten... some times i fall into taht accent becose of him....

... lol.... i kinda acidently assimilate accents from time to time.....

he whent home to see the famley and came back with a heavy acent for a while, and i had been listening to a boston comidean for a week..... lol... my accent got so bad people where asking if I was from bosten...

hehe So I wouldn't be suprized if i did it in text format aswell as vocal

Date: 2005-11-23 04:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-nanonyan.livejournal.com
I should warn that for the longest time I was anti-integration.. now I simply see it as another way of doing things, and in fact, integration and non-integration can exist within the same system. Nonetheless, I generally suggest thinking about such things deeply.

I guess I'm concerned because of that. With the way you wrote what you did, I tend to worry.

Two questions:

1. Why would you be set on doing something that you don't fully comprehend? Shouldn't you be absolutely sure about it and know all about it first?

2. Why are you planning on integrating in the first place? You said a lot about why you do not want to integrate, but nowhere do you say why you do want to integrate. I know this is a long shot, but is someone or something pressuring you to?

I hope that I can help you understand anything you want to know. I'm glad to help, I'm just a little worried too. :)

Re: Long Shot

Date: 2005-11-23 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-nanonyan.livejournal.com
You're welcome! I'm glad I listened to *my* heart and wrote something that I thought would help you instead of what my mind told *me*. In this case my mind told me that I was being rude by assuming you weren't completely sure. ^^;;;

Anyway, I think it would help everyone reading this post a lot if you wrote a little bit about your system. Who's in it? What are the problems that you have with those things coexisting? If your mind has an explanation for it, then it's an issue that people in the community (maybe even me ^^;) can help with. If your mind *doesn't* have an explanation, but just says it's wrong and stuff, then the issue is probably rooted in fear.

I think the rule is: Try to make something work if you've been gifted with it, and only make it go away if it's the right thing to do or the only thing to do.

By the way, I'm going to go have a bite to eat, but I'll be online.. if you want to you can IM me or email me, the information in my Livejournal profile is accurate. ^^

Re: System

Date: 2005-11-23 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-nanonyan.livejournal.com
So your fiction is actually an embellished form of the truth? That's truly awesome. I used to drastically overstate my truth even in daily life but eventually I decided to reduce it down. I made sure it didn't go away completely, because you're right, it does help a person explore themselves. Now I have a job in advertising because I make everything sound more interesting and dramatic than it is. *laughs ^^;*

The ghosts.. yeah, I think I know what you mean there. Memories? I have really bad ones. I used to think they were fake things that were just images I saw but it got scary when I realized they were real. I still don't believe too much in them, but I still try not to pay them too much attention cause it still bothers me to focus on them.

I think your writing is pretty good. :) And I'd still absolutely love to talk to you more because I think I could help a lot or just be someone to talk to. Please think about it, okay? I'm almost always online, as I spend my days at home as well. ^^;

Thank you for talking as much as you did, though.

Re: System

Date: 2005-11-23 06:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shatterstorm.livejournal.com
Conversation sounds okay - it'll help you all to know one another better. Instead of losing our people, we ended up closer and happier than before we would talk.

If it is any consolation, over time the old movies become easier to be around.

Re: System

Date: 2005-11-24 07:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadedmosaic.livejournal.com
No, we were just thinking your fiction it sounds like a poem we wrote the images you gave of a crackling faded picture's, black and white and sharp color picture or what not and silent stills, sounds real familiar. I think we may all experience things in much the same way. Check in my journal if ya want look for a poem a little way back called "Crashing Sounds" Thnx Elaine

Welcome

Date: 2005-11-23 06:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ksol1460.livejournal.com
The thing you have to ask yourself, is this something that you and your friends want, or that you are being talked into? What do they say about it?

Also, psychs define integration different ways; it used to be "everybody becomes one", and for many doctors it still is. However, some think of integration simply as the ability to talk to each other; in-house communication, which is what your doctor seems to be saying. But is that really what he's saying?

I would also question this: is he telling you that it's pathological to "lose yourself" in your creative expression?

Date: 2005-11-23 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] molly-elizabeth.livejournal.com
If you don' wanna integrate, then don't do it. Them stinky shrinkies don't know a squat from a poo in the grass.

Asides, Alexander says integration never works anyway. It's our theery that all peeple are multiples at least a little as kids, usually not much though. Multiples like us iz just got it stronger is all. I meen, whatz an imajinary frend as a child but a person inside ya that onlee yoo can see?

XOXOXO!
Molly!

PS = Imatayt tha happy dansin flowah. 8:-)

Date: 2005-11-23 10:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sethrenn.livejournal.com
If you do not feel comfortable integrating, no one has any business telling you that you have to do so. Many multiples have chosen not to integrate, and instead found ways to live and work together as a cooperative group. Even some therapists acknowledge that integration isn't the best idea for every system. Dr. David Caul, past president of the ISSD and therapist for Billy Milligan, said that "It seems to me that after treatment you want a functional unit, be it a corporation, a partnership, or a one-owner business." Even Dr. Frank Putnam has gone on record as saying that, with systems in disorder, "It is a mistake to make integration the focus of therapy. Treatment should be aimed at replacing maladaptive behaviors and responses with more appropriate forms of coping."

You are not the first to be wary of integration because you fear losing your friends. Did you know that Sybil (her real name was Shirley Mason, and there were a lot of aspects of her life that weren't mentioned in the book at all) didn't stay integrated? According to people who knew her, she let the others come back because she felt lonely without them. Billy Milligan didn't stay integrated either-- his group is still around today.

You might want to read this article (http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/integrate.html), on the subject of integration. There is also some interesting info about integration here: Layman's Guide to Multiplicity (http://www.karitas.net/blackbirds/layman).

Again, integration is not a requirement for anybody. It is just an option.

Date: 2005-11-25 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wingedwolf-2004.livejournal.com
I added you to our lj, if you ever want to talk and stuff ^___^

Date: 2005-11-25 09:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zamisista.livejournal.com
Hi there
My therapist told me that the goal was for us all "to become a river". My little ones freaked and said they didn't want to drown. So I told her no river, but we did want to be more in harmony. Anyway, for now I am keeping an open mind.

We did a lot of trauma work for our 7 year old (LittleJ) and teen (JD) to stop feeling murderous, self hating and scared. Then when they felt better about themselves, they went inside into our soulscape world. I don't know if that means we are half integrated or something, because they don't take sole charge anymore, but they give me their powers and feelings sometimes so I act like them but I am still in front. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone. I feel them inside but we don't really have conversations any more. Anyway, we are feeling a lot of peace inside and our heart and minds are mostly in harmony for now, so that's enough for me.

I am asking the Great Spirit Mother to guide our therapy and let us know whether integration or copresence or any other way is the healthiest way for us. Rather than prejudging the outcome, I find it easier to take it a day at a time and see what unfolds.
Wishing you every blessing in your journey.
BigJ

Re: zamisista, your beautiful reply...

Date: 2005-11-26 06:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadedmosaic.livejournal.com
Oh heck yeah I always feeel that way and I am out front most of the time like 75%percent of the time but I always feel like I am behind something ...not neccessarily someone although it could be someone who doesnt want to front but is in the way or stuck in what our old T called revolving door what we call Archie and Meathead syndrome or getting stuck . if ya ever see "All in the family" check out nick at Nite Meathead the son in law Micjheal is called meathead and Archie run towards the kitchen to living room door nd both try to sqweeze through at the same time and both consequantly get stuck.

Spo to answer your question yeah nothing spookey or smoke an mirors but a person or spacial thing is inbetween us and the outermost front all the time .Thnx Elaime

Archie & Meathead

Date: 2005-11-27 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ksol1460.livejournal.com
*falls over laughing* Oh my god, if I had a nickel for every time this happened to two (or more) of us...

Date: 2005-11-26 06:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadedmosaic.livejournal.com
OMG when we wer egoing tghrough a integration process we were first the first two weeks told "to think of streams flowing into a river" they must get this stuff out of books

Thnx Elaine

But later it went from pretty streams and rivers to steel doors with locks

Be very careful the imaginary guieded trips ya all take with your Ts

Date: 2005-11-27 07:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rhymer-713.livejournal.com
Why should you have to integrate anyway? Do you want to? Rhymer

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