I'll probably take flack for this but...

[annabellelaw.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of two people sharing the same body. A division of mind, two personalities with some shared memories.
I read some posts in this community & go "Yes... that sounds familiar. I'm glad I'm not alone."
I read some posts and go "Riiight... nutter, nut-ter. Notjob"
This place occasionally makes me feel sane because I read things from literate inteligent people who just happen to be sharing a body with others. Occasionally it makes me feel sane because I read posts and realise that I'm a healty sane multiple, not insane like the poster.

I'll not single out any individuals (forgive the pun) but the nut-job posts I read usually ... heck. I'm not going to give examples. I think you know which ones I'm refering to.

Comments

*eyes narrow*

[mercuryisme.livejournal.com]

Judge not lest thee be judged as well...

... or whatever the fuck that quote is.

Re: *eyes narrow*

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

I dunno, the OP has a point.

[ex-mushroom784.livejournal.com]

i know what you mean. some people seem like they want to 'fit in' to a different sort of label, so they lie, and try to mimic things, and make up their own ... whatever. personalities, outlook, whatever may have you. weird thing to want to fit into, but what the hell, we have loser goth kids, and stoners, and emo brats. can't forget about people who are PROUD of the label 'otaku', or people who live to have the label of '1337' slapped onto them. so why not have loner kids trying to mimic us around here! :)

i probably sound so mean, but i can't always be nice.

[saturniakitty.livejournal.com]

I'm proud to be an otaku ;_;

[thehumangame.livejournal.com]

lol. I used to be a lot more accepting of other people's experiences and ideas than I am now, but this place stretched my credulity until it broke and I am now a snarky, bitter old man.

(Contrary to what our recent start of activity here would suggest, we've actually been lurking for about two years. Which is more than enough to give someone permanent indigestion.)

[pengke.livejournal.com]

*burp*

Ahem. Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[jenscovia.livejournal.com]

Glad that you have the whole idea of multiplicity all figured out in your head.

Bravo for close-minded people.

That was sarcasm, by the way.

[annabellelaw.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know, you are very good at it too.

I knew that this would start a fight, which was kind of my intention. No, actually to start a discussion. The problem is that people get defencive or go on the attack.

I expected responses like "You don't understand me... you are so closed minded"
No... I probably don't understand you, but it's interesting that you attacked without asking to whom oer what I was refering.

Answers on a postcard as they say...

[tigrin.livejournal.com]

I apologize that not everyone can be as perfectly sane as you are. Would you like a plaque with your names on it? I can pull one right out of my ass.

no, seriously. everyone has their own definition of what they consider sane, so it's rather pointless to pick a fight about it. it's really nice and all that you can sort people out so easily, but what's your point? does it help those people to call them a nutter and not much else? how about... gasp... actually giving a shit that someone else is having a rough time and wants some actual, intelligent assistance? especially if you are so enlightened and stable yourself that you actually have advice to give? or are you too high above the loonies?

[annabellelaw.livejournal.com]

*giggle* Sorry... I know that was intended as shocking or insulting or something... but I had a mental image of you squatting down and trying to pull out an engraved brass plaque.

For a start, no one here is 'sane' I guess we could call each other nutter in the same way Samueal L Jackson can comfortably say "Nigger" without meaning or causing offence.

I do care about others who have problems, who are having a tough time, who are here for help. It's just that so often I see them getting help from those least qualified to give it.

"I have problem X"
"Oh... my Elf-Shaman-Starfighter-Alien-Mecha-Vampire-Jedi walk-in personality says that you need to do XYZ, and he should know, he's a wizard"
The problem is when you talk to people about the fact that they are a little 'strange in the head' they pull the 'multiple-tolerance' card and ... it's just plain annoying. it is possible to have a personality that beleives itself to be something else, another gender, another ethnicity, another age, even another species. No bones with thart. Why is it that so many I see seem to be... I don't know... I can understand it in a way, wish fufillment and all...

Or people are advised on how to get more multiple like it's some kind of competition.
"OMG! There's only 3 of us in here... how do I contact the silent ones and why do I have no inner world"
It's not a race to see who can be most multiple.

If you are multiple ... fine. Welcome to the club, there are a lot of us in here. More than you may think (I found out a friend is multiple a month back, after a couple of years of knowing them).
If you are able to cope in society, if you are a healthy multiple, great.

There are many ways to be multiple, or rather many perspectives, many ways of viewing the inside of the mind. Maybe you have a core central personality maybe not, maybe you have a system of sorts, maybe not. Maybe...

Maybe I should not have made the post and kept quiet. It's just some things that have been bugging me.

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

Ever hear of hierarchical self esteem? It is a state where people need to believe themselves better or superior to others around them in order to feel good about themselves.

[pengke.livejournal.com]

Or maybe they've just reached the point where they look at some of the things being claimed on this community and have to call bullshit.

hierarchical self esteem

[annabellelaw.livejournal.com]

Yes of course.
I have the flowchart somewhere that shows who I am superior & inferior to.
I think at last count I was sadder than both published _and_ unpublished sci-fi writers but cooler than fanfic writers, and could legitimately look down on people who use 'leet' without irony, but have to kowtow to people who own their own home.

(Humor... the defuser of ire)

Amazingly enough

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

I don't know which one's you're talking about. This is because different people have different views on what comprizes sane behavior. My boundaries for acceptable behavior, are not the same as others.

For example, I have issues with people when they make posts of this sort, not because it's wrong per se, to have boundaries, but because more often than not, it's an attempt to avoid really looking at one's own behavior. Hence, this is why I am wary when someone declares themselves "sane" multiples, while simultaneously declaring others insane. I hope that's not the case here.

My personal preference, at current, is to offer advice when I think it's really needed, or asked for. Other than that, I don't know them from a hole in the wall. What I see, isn't actually what's going on. It's definately going to be colored by their ability to communicate clearly, and how receptive I feel to their communication.

Let's assume for a moment however that what I see, is actually what is going on. How likely am I to change their life? *shrugs* I'll make my opinions known, but honestly, what point is there in just calling someone crazy, instead of trying to explain why I don't think their method of handling the situation is the ideal one?

Then again, I'm not interested in the sanity badge, except for when necessary to protect my freedom. So perhaps the reason I don't see a point, is because I don't have an interest in proving that I am sane.

--Me

Re: Amazingly enough

[annabellelaw.livejournal.com]

There is a sanity badge? This I must get.
Which colours does it come in? Will it go with my straight jacket?

I get your point... sanity is a label, not a state. It's just... arguing about sanity is like arguing about truth.

Re: Amazingly enough

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

I don't know which one's you're talking about. This is because different people have different views on what comprizes sane behavior. My boundaries for acceptable behavior, are not the same as others.

This frequently seems to be the case with me too. We are not usually very forthcoming with personal information about ourselves in public posts. Apparently, we already fit a fair number of people's definitions for insanity just by being multiple, quite apart from any other details. It is a risky gamble to assume that one's own kind of multiplicity will be seen as sane by the world at large or by doctors because it includes or doesn't include certain aspects-- many will make no distinction between you and those you consider to be loonies. You say there's more than one person in your body? Sorry, you lose the Sanity Game-- that's all we need to hear, now take this bottle of pills and quit bugging me.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

We've been hanging around the fringes of the multiple community, online and off, for 12 years, and been directly involved in it for 4. What I've noticed over the course of the past five years is an increasing trend toward self-definition, and acceptance of multiples who are self-defined, who came to their conclusions about themselves without a therapist or a diagnosis. Ten years ago, it would have been virtually unthinkable for someone to suspect they were multiple and not go into therapy to remember and re-live the horrific memories which were surely buried within the most seemingly happy system, so that the alters could be integrated etc etc. You didn't just decide to accept that there were others and go on. That just wasn't done.

Maybe because we got exposed early on (age 13-14) to a glut of information describing the multiple experience as inevitably being one of sheer unlivable hell, it's a relief to us to see the shift towards relaxed acceptance. With such acceptance inevitably come groups who choose to run their systems in unusual ways or have 'quirky' (by general standards) self-definitions and ideas about themselves. I've had my share of 'oh, come on' moments with such people, but I've also had plenty of those moments with people in the MPD/DID model. The thing is, I've also reached the point where I'm more concerned about whether someone is getting along in the world at large, and able to cooperate with others, hold down a job, etc. to the best of their physical or neurological ability, than with whether I believe the things they say about their system or origins, or not.

It may be bullshit, but if that is the case, it is a kind I find much more tolerable than bullshit which involves pawning off all responsibility for living as a healthy group or person onto one's therapist.

There have always been, and will probably always be people playing at being multiple because they see it as a l33t kewl thing to do, or something that validates their suffering or their identity crisis, and I think some of the more extreme claims, especially those made casually, come from such people. Unfortunately, that's not something I can change. There are certainly times when I'll see a post and suspect that someone is bullshitting, or 'trying on' multiplicity as a new identity or phase the way some people go through a goth or pagan phase. It's the Internet, for crying out loud-- you can say you're anyone you want. Based on this alone, you naturally have to take everything with a little more salt than you would off-- I treat everyone at face value until proven wrong, but I always try to keep in the back of my head the possibility that they might not be what they say or appear.

My philosophy is that if the "weird thing" helps you live and be more functional in the world at large, go with it. You just might want to be careful about who you tell. I have always felt that it's a good policy to reveal information about yourself and your system in steps, based on how the other party has reacted to previous revelations. If you have unicorns in your system, you may not want to go sharing this fact with everybody. Not necessarily because they won't believe you, although you may also want to consider that factor, but because if you tell someone who thinks you're too nutty for your own good, you may find yourself forcibly pushed towards 'help' you don't want or need, and lose your rights if you resist. This, to me, is a much more pressing and dangerous concern than the possibility of being told 'oh, you're making that up.'

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

My criteria for sanity include being able to function in society without distress (to others or to oneself). By that token, some of the postings on here give me serious doubts.

Some (note, some) of them just seem self-deluded, and that's fine; playing pretend is fun. I indulge in it too. (I'm not multiple, but I'm a fantasy writer. Can be similar. I have personalities and worlds in my head, but I put them there and I run, service and maintain them.) Where the imaginary stuff starts harming you - or causing you to harm yourself, however you look at it - then it's time to reel it in.

When I see a posting with all the hallmarks of Cliched Fluffbunny Multiple System - an obligatory TheDarkOne, for example, who cuts hirself - I just sort of roll my eyes heavenwards and bite my tongue.

[pthalo]

Your definition of sanity is interesting. I like it. But how would you define distress? I think I (and probably we too) am sane by your definition. Though functioning in general society can be quite distressing at times: exams to study for, bills to pay, sometimes an extra tight food budget to juggle (though not this month! yay!)... I would term all of these "distressing" but I'd also say they are normal and things that most adults (at least most poor adults or most adults in college) are familiar with.

And then there's the stuff that might be closer to what you mean by distress: Little One panicking if I disappear for a little while (but we work it out and she doesn't do anything bad when she panics, she just gets upset and sits with bear until she calms down or goes to see someone else inside), me sometimes rolling over and going "fuck it, i'm not going to school today", Lydia not being able to talk (but she hardly ever fronts so our friends' lack of ability to use ASL isn't an issue.), general PTSD symptoms which most (all?) of us have but the focus is on getting through it and getting on with the day.. is the sheer presence of this "distress" by your definition or would you say that "some problems from time to time but generally rather okay" meets your definition of sane?

I realise you're not a psychologist, but I was just curious by what you meant by distress because I like the definition and do think it might apply to us. We don't cut anymore. I was the main cutter in the system, age 5-19 and I quit because it was stupid and I didn't need the crutch anymore. Recovered from an ED and now we eat whenever we're hungry. We're generally okay. Sometimes we have rather unusual problems which are distressing by my definition but we work through it without doing any damage to anyone (including ourselves).

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

When I see a posting with all the hallmarks of Cliched Fluffbunny Multiple System - an obligatory TheDarkOne, for example, who cuts hirself - I just sort of roll my eyes heavenwards and bite my tongue.

Taha. ditto. I try to keep quiet, and wait and see if they turn out to be an omg teh dramah wangst system, or a rational bunch of people who just happen to fit a stereotype.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

Hint: Calling people insane is not a good way to start constructive discussion. It *is* a good way to make people throw comments at you that are about as contructive as a chocolate fireplace.


Don't worry. I think people like you are insane. I'm glad all us nut jobs make you feel better sweety.

[ash1977law.livejournal.com]

Hmm... interesting reading.

My definition of sane

1- Able to function at a basic level (provide for self via job or similar etc...)
2- Unlikely to harm self or others by violent or non-violent except in self defence
3- Able to form relationships with others

Now... 1 & 2 are easy to measure.

Job & paycheck?
Check!

Psychokiller who collects bodyparts from his victims and uses them to create a giant sculpture of the head of Jon Bon Jovi which he intends to climb inside and set alight once complete?
Nope... good.

Number 3... hmm...

If I claimed to be Jesus, or Napoleon, or somesuch people would look at me in an odd way. I may just find it odd to make friends, or keep them.

A real life example. I know a guy called... well lets call him "Bob". That's not his name, but lets call him that.
He claims to be an Angel. Not in a metaphorical sence but in a real life actual flaming-sword and wings way. It's kind of hard to have a conversation with him, because 5 minutes in he claims knowledge of anchient egypt or tells you about his invisible sword that he got from his boss "Michael" as a reward for killing Lucifer. He invites you to feel his invisible sword (apparently you can feel it if you are psychic).
This obviously makes people a bit ... wary of him. He dosn't get invited out much.

Is he insane? By most definitions... yes. Yes he's nuttier than squirel poo. Deeply mad. Harmless, but not sane. Is he however any less sane than an obsesive train spotter or a person who talks constantly about, I don't know, cheese. No, he's just as odd. Maybe more so... delusional.

So a personality who beleives themself to be something that they are not is delusional, weither that personality is alone in the body or not.

Of course... that makes the original poster delusional too.

Just my definition, of course. I'm no professional head-doctor.

[0semya0.livejournal.com]

You seem like a very sensible person.

[ash1977law.livejournal.com]

Keep up the good work.
I wouldn't feel too pleased though, half the users of the internet make me feel sane by comparison.

[szczur-system.livejournal.com]

lilspeak!! haha XD

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

As the one who probably started this whole rant, I have to make one comment about the whole sanity-insanity dichotomy. Insanity is a slippery term. As for our elf-shaman-Jedi-Mechs things....

We have no choice but to be what we are, internally. We cannot be anything else. We have some strange beliefs about who and what we are, true. However, in our daily lives we are functional, and capable of supporting ourselves. I am a firm believer in the idea that what is true for one person is not necessarily true for another. I can be called a nutjob, fine. However, I have taken flack from my own body's family every day I was open about my existence with them. My system has often wished to find someone who could understand. We have often dreamed of someone who could understand US. Yes, we have soulbonds of monster movie characters. However, other people have anime characters, and still others literature characters. The genre that appeals to a person who soulbonds the strongest is where their soulbonds come from, at least in our experience. I apologize for making you think, "Oh NOES! A NUTT3R! g0D sav3 us a121!" However, those are the identities of the Superhuman Crew.

And, we still function even with them. Ash1977Law and AnnabelleLaw, I ask only that you respect that my system believes what it believes. Call us nuts, call us freaks, if you wish, but just leave us alone in our delusions and insanity. That is all that we ask.
W.H.^Crew.