Multiplicity

Jay: Here's a review (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679763309/qid=1122849717/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_sbs_1/103-9348129-4651055?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), if you're interested...

Andy: Were you actually diagnosed with bipolar disorder, or are your parents trying to push a diagnosis because your current behaviour makes them uncomfortable?

There are no good books about multiplicity.

There are a handful of books which hint at the possibility that healthy plurality might exist and that there are plurals who have never seen the inside of a therapist's office. Otherwise, you can expect the same story, told repeatedly and mostly from the therapist's, not the client&'s, perspective.

Nonfiction: http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/books.html
Fiction: http://www.karitas.net/pavilion/library/library_media.html

Note that there is probably a good deal more fiction in the "nonfiction" books than in the others. Good luck.

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Yes, I was actually diagnosed with bipolar 1. More importantly than whether I was diagnosed or not, I KNOW I have bipolar 1. It was in nearly full remission until my family practitioner prescribed me a migraine medication that spiked the seratonin level in my brain, sending me into a manic episode, and back onto the roller coaster.

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Has he tried you on Calan? It's a blood-pressure medication with an actually useful off-label application; it cures/prevents migraine with few or no side effects.

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No, I haven't tried it, but I probably can't. I have unusually low blood pressure--so low that I often run the risk of passing out. It wouldn't be safe for me to be on anything that lowered my blood pressure.

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aaack. No, then.

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I am bipolar and a thoughtform collective (my term for my particular kind of plurality.) I know of no books that explore the interface between the two, but I've been dealing with this myself lately. My recent journal entries go into this in some depth. You might want to check out the ones starting July 27. I have no idea if my experiences are typical of the condition itself, or purely individual.

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Thoughtform collective? That's an interesting term... what does it mean as far as your guys' system goes?

I don't believe that anyone in here is bipolar as such. We once had a report written up about us by a therapist who thought we (he actually saw several of us, but had no idea we were plural) should possibly be diagnosed with bipolar disorder. The guy was a bit of a quack, as we'd been referred to him for diagnosis of learning disability, and it turned out that he handled all the students in the same way: he diagnosed all the girls with depression or bipolar disorder and all the boys with ADD. Our disability advisor at school was furious-- she hates his guts, heh.

The 'symptoms' this guy was listing were mostly the behaviour of one individual (again, he had no idea there was more than one, and we'd never have let him know). I can see why it may have looked like bipolar to someone watching from the outside, but I think it's just part of a natural process for him-- he's a rather unusual and creative person. Some of us are interested in your theory about archetypes, though. Have you written any more about that?

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Thoughtform collective? That's an interesting term... what does it mean as far as your guys' system goes?

I use the word "thoughtforms" because most of my identities were created very consciously (except for a few who showed up in dreams). I've been making up imaginary characters since I was a child, and I tend to identify with them directly -- to have a 'median' rather than 'multiple' type of relationship with them, as it were. Some of them come and go over the years, but others have remained stable over time and developed in complexity.

Some of us are interested in your theory about archetypes, though. Have you written any more about that?

The only things I've written up so far are on my journal. My theory is based on my personal experience, which seems to accord with what I've read about manic depression. Basically, in a manic phase, bipolar people tend to assume a "grandiose" identity, which may involve identification with an historical or symbolic figure. Jung labeled this "identification with an archetype", and considered it a bad thing. I am not sure if he specifically related it to mania, but he was aware of it as a general psychological phenomenon.

Now, I disagree with Jung's value judgement. In fact, I consider "grandiose" a pejorative word, since I believe that grandeur is a real, natural and valid part of life. However, I have experienced this type of manic episode, and in each case it involved my getting "hijacked" by a single, archetypally-related personality. My consciousness became dominated by a single thoughtform-complex, and it resulted in an unbalanced state. I recently came close to having such a episode, but managed to avoid it, and I attribute this fact to the greater balance I now have among my thoughtforms.

In other words, I do not think that identifying with archetypes is harmful in itself, if one retains one's connection to the whole psyche. I regard identification as one way of interacting creatively with the archetypal world. Perhaps it is a way that would appeal most not only to bipolars, but to those like myself with a less dualistic and more "median" type of consciousness. I've always regarded "self" and "other" as a continuum rather than a dichotomy.

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I use the word "thoughtforms" because most of my identities were created very consciously (except for a few who showed up in dreams). I've been making up imaginary characters since I was a child, and I tend to identify with them directly -- to have a 'median' rather than 'multiple' type of relationship with them, as it were. Some of them come and go over the years, but others have remained stable over time and developed in complexity.

Not to impose on you or anything, and you certainly don't have to do this if you don't want to, but: would you want to type up an explanation of this for the section on medians in Pavilion (http://www.karitas.net/pavilion)? We're looking for more median-related material-- we only have one really good essay so far, and this sounds interesting. Ideally, we'd like to have enough essays to show that there are a lot of different ways of being median.

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I would like to see more variety represented too. Only the "one fire" model of median consciousness seems to be currently popular, and I don't identify with that much. This Party is much less centralized. There used to be a page called "The Wonderful World of the Micontinuum" by the Vicki(s), which showed a wide range of midcontinuum systems, but the page has been down for a while. I will look at your site, and write up a file. Thanks for the interest.

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Side note: That "one fire" business was never meant to be universal. I know some Pavilion members were trying to create words or definitions that would cover all experiences, but that just is not possible. It was almost a political situation the way that got started, and I'm not going into details here or I'd be here all afternoon, but in a way I wish it had never happened.

For instance, ask

lilairen and she'll tell you that "one fire" isn't her experience.
http://www.karitas.net/pavilion/library/articles/m_median_kiya0405.html

I would not want anyone to think that they're not a median because they don't fit the "one fire" style. And I know this needs a lot of work:
http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/glossary.html#median

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I would like to see more variety represented too. Only the "one fire" model of median consciousness seems to be currently popular, and I don't identify with that much.

That was something we were trying to do for the now defunct Lancers' Codex site. I had personally felt it was a mistake to insist it had to be centralised like that, but most of the other people working on the project seemed to think it was important to have a new model to replace the MPD/DID one. The real problem there was that there was only one system on the project who identified as median, and a lot of that 'one fire' business was based on their personal experience-- which would have been one thing if they had explained it as same, but instead, they tried to apply it to everyone across the board.

I wish I knew what happened to Vicki(s)' site. It's been down for a few months and I don't know how to contact them.

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Thanks for sharing your story. Mind if I friend you?

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Be my guest. I'll add you too.

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Honestly, the only books about multiplicity we've read that we've really enjoyed were fictional. :/ (Er, marketed as such. I think a lot of what was in some of those 'based on a true stories' was fiction.) Some of the 'case histories' gave us things we could relate to, but there were also a lot of things we didn't relate to at all, and all of them except When Rabbit Howls finished off with the idea that integration was necessary. A lot of the time we were just left cringing at the bad writing and the obvious playing-up of certain things to make it "dramatic." Some of the more elementary self-help books, we're told, are helpful for multiples who feel they have a disorder and whose systems are in total crisis and have no idea where to start.

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Forunately, my system is running pretty well. I just keep thinking that someone's had to have been here and know how to work out some of those troublesome kinks . . .

I've been thinking about writing a book by allowing the others in my system to write out their stories . . . I know everyone talks about it, but I think mine might be saleable. It would be an interesting book. The problem I am running across is that a lot of the people in my head are from "fictional" worlds that already have stories written about them. I'm worried about making something unique enough to not infringe on copyright.

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The problem I am running across is that a lot of the people in my head are from "fictional" worlds that already have stories written about them. I'm worried about making something unique enough to not infringe on copyright.

*nods* This is actually more common than most people think, I suspect (Billy Milligan said that Arthur was partly based on Sherlock Holmes). Unfortunately, it's also been used to undermine the credibility of multiples and make it look like we're all attention-seekers playing games-- there was an article published in the early 90s snarking about patients with "Ninja Turtle alters and Mr. Spock alters." You know, look at all these crazy women paying the doctors to play pretend in their offices. I honestly can't see, in theory, why it's 'bad,' or why such 'fictional' people shouldn't be expected to show responsibility and take care of themselves like anyone else, but on the other hand, our society frowns upon it as an 'unadultlike' thing to do, and so I can definitely understand your apprehension.

Maybe you could start out by writing your real stories, and then, when you go to prepare it for publication, change various names and details and anything which might identify those people as being from specific sources?

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truevessel.livejournal.com

We have a similar group in need of healing, known as the Marcias.
We have others who could have gotten diagnosed as bipolar,
when we were in the hospital, dealing with a psychiatrist who didn't believe in multiples;
but we didn't let them talk to him out loud.
That was a long time ago, and we have come far since then.
When we asked that doctor if we could see someone there who was treating multiples,
he said, just forget about it.
That turned out to be fortunate, because the doctor treating multiples lost her license not long after that for
abusing her patients.
The therapist we had all along was the best, because she didn't try to cure us or fix us.

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One of the others in my system is a psych . . . well, the kind that can prescribe medication. He really wants to be the one to first meet whatever counselor we are going to. We desperately need a counselor who is multiple-friendly, pagan-friendly, and lesbian-friendly. I just think it's not gonna happen.

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truevessel.livejournal.com

The odds are against it, certainly.
If I were you, I would ask those questions and be thorough in your search. Find out as much as possible ahead of time.
Any therapist who isn't open to your questions, and open with
their answers, isn't worth confiding in.A

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shandra.livejournal.com

We have Lynn, who's multiple and therefore encompasses the Lynns. And they have a subgroup of children, the kinderlynn. So if you're asking about sort of systems-within-systems yah we do.

I can't say the Lynns are crazy, although by some standards they are (like the rest of us :)). But they certainly tend to adhere to different rules of normality. Lynn's done some work in therapy around a few things, but no one could do that for her; she chose to do it herself. Then she chose to stop. Maybe she'll start again; I don't know. She seems ok to me, except for the occasional blood lusts and homicidal desires, or habit of seeing if she can form a cult around herself. :)

I think it did help that she came to a point where she was wanting to participate more in regular life (playing music and that sort of thing) and we were willing to make that space for her, although at the time it was somewhat grudgingly.

I don't personally believe anyone can enforce healing on someone else (at least not in our system); all we can do is see if we can create opportunities for a) having space to experience enough of both the good and the bad of life to decide change is valuable and then b) support any efforts towards that change. The first seems trickier than the second.

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I have a lot of people who lack basic functionality in my head. Unfortunately, the Pams' trama happened in this life and led directly to my creation. Pam was the original person in the body. I try to give her time to front whenever she feels like it, but she has some nonsensical belief systems that can cause trouble. (For instance, she believes sperm are floating around in drops of water in the air, and will settle on food or drink, or become inhaled, and cause pregnancy when imbued.) I just somehow feel that her sanity is the key to the body's, and was thinking about doing some more work with her. I was hoping to find some sort of confirmation that others have experienced these "key" members that have a great affect on the system's functioning.

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shandra.livejournal.com

Yeah some of those beliefs can be interesting. :) It is hard if it makes it impossible to communicate because there's such a gap.

I think we all affect the functionality of the system, but it's true that some people are more directly involved with what "functional" is than others.

Having said that it kind of depends on circumstances, for us. Lynn is not necessarily someone you depend on to show up at work every day. However in a situation that involves life and death she's very good at it.

I sometimes wish that we could force change, but we haven't found it operates that way - it may possibly be because we were so badly manipulated as children that any internal pushing around inevitably makes things one hundred times worse, sometimes dramatically so (this is also the mistake I think some therapists make with their clients). Some people have better experiences with that though, so it's not like it's impossible.

One thought I had in reading your response was that if Pam made you, and you have a good grasp on functionality, it seems to me that (following the internal logic of it) there must have been some sense of that in Pam. Most creators can't create something they can't conceptualize at all. So maybe there is some common ground there you could exploit. Like ask why she didn't give you that belief, or whatever?

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Thanks for the suggestion for conversation to have with Pam. It has proved most insightful.

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