Multiplicity

o.O

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jenscovia.livejournal.com

What a cute icon!

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*grins* Thanks!

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jenscovia.livejournal.com

hee, I sort of made the same face when I saw disablity and sexuality lumped together? So here's mine o.0

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heh yeah. I wasn't sure what else to say.. ^_^

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the reason it says "disability and sexuality" together is becuase it's a zine for people who identify as queer and disabled.....and queer is defined as anyone who is lesbian, gay, bisexual, asexual, polysexual, straight-but-supportive-of-queers, etc. and disabled is defined by whomever is defining it......check out the website for more info

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I'm not sure I understand what sexuality has to do with disabilities. And am also curious why heterosexual disabilties wouldn't also be included. Does it truly matter what a person's sexual status is?

Jenilee

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it's not "what sexuality has to do with disabilities" - it's disabled queers having a space to talk about and educate folks on what it means to be disabled. The reason it says 'sexuality" and not "lesbians" or something is because all folk have a sexuality - what does it mean to be disabled and be a sexual person?

SO often disabled folk are labeled or thought of as asexual - and often in the queer (GLBT+) community disabled folk's needs are ignored, issues like dealing with homophobia AND able-ism, negotiating doctors who aren't sensitive to disability issues AND who aren't sensitive to one's sexual or gender identity...

If you want to order an online copy of the zine for free to read it and get a better idea of the stories people contributed - the poetry, etc. - just email the link posted.

This is one of those areas folks don't usually think about, there's not much information or resources about, and there's not much talking about.

And to answer the last part - "heterosexual disabilities" doesn't exist, but people who identify as heterosexual and also identify as disabled are included in this zine - hence the "disabilities and sexualities" part....the zine was created by queer-identified folk who would like all disabled folk to be able to participate....so we stayed away from saying "big ole disabled queer zine"

If you have further qualms or want more information, please just email me directly. Or better yet - get a copy and read what the zine is all about!!

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I'm not sure I understand. Did you say that "heterosexual disabilities" doesn't exist? Does that mean that heterosexuals don't have disibilities? I am confused.

Jenilee

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what I mean is I don't think there is a disability for heterosexuals only.....

just check out the website. seriously. i even uploaded some sample articles so folk can read bits w/o buying the whole thing.

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Well, there've been a couple of them, and Independent Living is putting one out, but it's for straights and GLBT.

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there's a couple of disabilities for heterosexuals only? because that's what I'm talking about....

This is a ZINE.....that means it's independantly created and published. It has no major corporate backing or organizational back-up. I'm a blind lesbian multiple and I wanted to created a space for other disabled queerly-identified (and straight-identified) people to talk about their experiences. There's little out there about stuff like that.

It makes me sad that people get all up in arms when there's something for *queers* and straights aren't given the first nod of attention....but that just reminds me that there's more work to be done. The whole world is for heterosexuals - all the privileges and rights that affords them - I realize it must be painful and a bit offensive when heterosexuality is pushed aside for a minute and queers carve a space that's inclusive but not specific to heterosexually-identified people.

But maybe before folk judge this, they check out the website and read samples. This was just a general post - I made posts a while ago for contributions and the original publication date and explained things completely then. Now the website has all of that and I don't wnat to keep typing things....

(deleted comment)

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I know you and I don't usually get on, but I just wanted to tell you I really liked this comment.

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The topic of disabilities is sensitive - that's for sure. And I realize that not everyone identifies as disabled. The original post said nothing of "disabled people read this zine" but merely was informing the community that this zine existed. And sexuality does not mean "sexual intercourse" as it were - but those that identify across the board as gay, lesbian, bisexual, heterosexual, a-sexual, pansexual, etc....as the website says.

Check the website for more information on the zine specifically, because it answers most of hte questions here and since I typed up the website I don't want to double-type. My wrists don't go for it.

However to respond to the last statement, my sexuality does make me differen than others. I am not afforded the same rights and dignities as heterosexual women. I can't marry - I can't receive my partners insurance (in my state) - I can't receive military family benefits if my military-partner goes to war, I can't receive social security or tax benefits, have contestable and usually overturned by birth parent "living will" rights, as a lesbian I can be turned away from a hospital if my partner is ill.

In the doctor's office I am perceived as a lesbian and am treated with less respect, often endure cruel statements by my doctors who are merely dealing with my eyes, not who I sleep with or am attracted to. I've been harrassed and assaulted by men in public because I'm a "dyke" in their opinion.

I am quite different because of my sexuality, whether I want to be or not be. This is the problem with society, and this is one of the reasons why I started this zine.

Being different is something we can't help, but educating others so that perhaps that difference does not hold the stigma and social ridicule and shame is something we can help. Because of that I am a proud lesbian and a proud disabled woman - and I realize that although I am different, the stigma that comes with those idnetities is not mine to bear, and not something I need to accept.

Not everyone feels this way and I'm not asking that anyone do. Not every multiple is disabled. But for those that are (and there are some in this community including myself!!) perhaps this zine is helpful. And perhaps for those that aren't and thus hold on to a privileged place at which this stigmatization apparently does not affect them, maybe they can read this zine or something like it and realize the struggles of people around them and work to make life freer for all of us.

Someone said to me once "we aren't free until we are all free"....take it for what it's worth.

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I'm sorry that my reality sounds preachy to you.

But I AM different - that's my point. What's wrong with difference? If people were meant to be the same I figure we would all be the same then.

I don't want to show people I'm the same as them - I don't want to be and am not - I want people (myself included) to instead realize that differences don't equate cruelty or injustice, that difference does not equal bad, and that discrimination and oppression of people because they are different than you is ridiculous.

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Oh no, I meant there have been a couple of zines focusing upon disabilities and sexuality which were heterosexually-oriented. The Independent Living zine is SGLBT inclusive.

I know the feeling well, of thinking that the whole world was made for straights, and that we homosexuals were an invisible minority. I look at the dominant culture now and I see that gays, Lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people -- even transgendered children -- are now much more visible, although obviously we have a long way to go. The doors are opening for us; the world is now not just a place for 50s Joe and Sally American, although there are many who bewail that fact and are doing everything they can to put a stop to inevitable social change.

This is why I believe it is time for multiples, too. It was coming from that perspective, that point of view, that I originally wrote my articles (http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/manifest.html) that formed the beginning of the astraeasweb.net website; that feeling that the dominant culture didn't recognise multiples who didn't go crawling up walls or committing gruesome crimes and becoming the focus of lengthy showtrials.

It seemed to me at the time, and still does, partly because I've occasionally lurked upon the fringes of show business, that this has something to do with the lack of plural visibility in the media; other than ghastly talk shows and B movies. If they could see us... if they could know that we're neither all lunatics nor all losers, but people just like themselves. This was the reasoning behind the ill-fated Pavilion (http://www.karitas.net/pavilion) and a few other projects which I either instigated or participated in.

It is certainly not the idea of a zine for non-straights that is putting people off; I think it's fairly clear from their responses that they were concerned about whether you were implying that multiplicity was a disability. You explained that this was not the intention.

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Thank you. I was beginning to feel overwhelmed and at wits end. And discouraged.

I echoe your statement. I just find that when I start talking about disabilities and sexualities (which I use because there's more, in my opinion, than just "gay" or "straight") and my experiences as a disabled lesbian, people turn me off and tune me out. Otherwise, they react judgementally or disapprovingly - as if my experience were nothing compaired to "their struggles" or that I were excluding them because I was talking as a queerly-identified, disabled woman.

It's tough to address minority issues segmented, in my opinion - because none of this is. You know what I mean? I wish that I were more bold in speaking on multiple issues but I'm not right now - it's taken me 22 years of being legally blind to finally admit I"m disabled and (try to) be proud of it - to admit I'm a multiple in public is a step I am not yet ready (but hope to someday) to take.

And yes, representation means a lot - a few people have talked to me about the movie "identity" and how crazy it was. I haven't nor will I see it (like with Me, Myself, and Irene) and all I say in response is "dissociation isn't at all like that, although I'm sure it can be, and it would be an interesting plot if there were other, more positive nad realistic, representations out there...and then remind the folk - who are usually black activists or queer activists or woman activists and friends - that they said the same thing, that their fore-fighters said the same thing - about the representations of their respective identity however long ago. Not that all of these people know I'm a multiple, but I like to flick something at them once in a while.

okay i'm done rambling.

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Well, thanks and all, but we don't consider ourselves disabled.

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that's fine, but someone in this community may identify as disabled and queer to some extent (like myself....a legally blind lesbian multiple) and may be interested so I figured it may be relevent to someone.....

maybe you can pass the info on to someone you know who may be interested

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Well, maybe it is relevant to someone, just saying it's not to us. But if you're looking for a specifically queer audience, you might want to try some of the LJ comms about sexuality if you haven't already.

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thta's cool and I did....but remember - minorities exist in all contexts - and minority identifications do not comprise the entirety of one's identity - like I said, I'm disabled and queer and a multiple so I figure if there are any others who identify that way here, maybe they'll dig it. And maybe you could read it and get familiar with what that means....ya'know, it's fun!

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Yeah, but if you like cartoons, are you going to post it in a cartoons community saying "maybe there are other people who like cartoons who identify as disabled and queer!"? I should think people who are interested in queer/disability issues would read queer and/or disability communities.

maybe you could read it and get familiar with what that means

I'm familiar with the definitions of both "disabled" and "queer", thank you.

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why wouldn't you? audre lorde, an amazing poet/activist/writer/self-identified warrior always said that identifies are multifaceted, and that to fractionalize identities was to fractionalize the fight for social justice and equality.

Just becuase someone is a mulitple doens't mean they'll join this community. Just because someone is disabled and queer doesn't mean they'll join a community about that. There's a stigma identifying with both groups, and some folks just don't want that stigma. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't welcome a publication they could read in private that let them know they weren't alone. That's why I posted here - there are people here (ok - 1 or 2 people so far) that wouldn't have heard otherwise and are glad this exists and want to get copies perhaps even!!

And when I said get a copy of the zine to find out what all of this means - I didn't mean define things for yourself. No one can do that. Definitions are fluid and no one agrees with one. I meant - find out what the communities of people that belong to your community too are going through/struggling with. Find out what's up in their worlds - so close to your own. A part of yours. I'm a part of your community too.

But you don't have to. It's a suggestion.

The reason I started this zine is because of a lot of things - but this conversation - the chance to talk about what it means to belong to lots of communities and how htey interact - how the disabled/queer experience can be different and a lot more invisible/lonely at times than the straight/disabled experience (for some) or whatever poeople right about in it -that's importnat to talk about. And we're all human living a human experience, without knowing what others go through we live a bias experience, right?

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And we're all human living a human experience, without knowing what others go through we live a bias experience, right?

As an otherkin, I am offended and marginalized by that statement.

But seriously, I am a girl who likes girls. There are a few people in our system who would be considered disabled in this society, even if they don't think of themselves that way. If you'd said "hey, I think there might be a lot of people in this community who identify this way, come check out our zine" I think I would have been less bothered by that, because you would have acknowledged in your first post that you were knowingly posting offtopic and not considering multiplicity as a disability. I would also be more interested in your zine if, you know, I could read it instead of having to buy it based on a sample poem. (Incidentally, you might want to mention if contributors get a free copy. I know I'd be turned off about sending something to a zine if I had to pay for the privledge of reading it later.)

You may also want to note your attitude when replying to people. You've managed to confuse the hell out of and annoy people in Kasiya, and your responses to me have seemed, to my reading, a bit on the sanctimonious side. I'm not telling you what to think or say, but just to keep an eye on the effects your words have.

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I'm sorry - I'm not trying to be rude. Problem with messaging mediums is the inability to hear one's tone or to see body language. I'm running out of steam and arguments. Best I can do is remind you that the website answers your questions, that judging something without seeing it (something not comprised of mine, but others writings) can be hurtful to those that represent it, and that defensiveness is a tactic too common but still necessary, unfortunately.

I didn't want to get in a fight in any way - I just wanted to spread the word about something I posted about in here and folks in here or fragmentedminds wrote for. If it offended you, I'm sorry.

I put it behind an lj-cut and off-topic warned the post.

I hope that's okay then.

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that judging something without seeing it (something not comprised of mine, but others writings) can be hurtful to those that represent it

Well, I'm not going to buy your zine just so I can form an opinion on it. =P I don't have an opinion on the zine itself, just on your style of advertising and the manner in which you post.

(The comment about being offended because I'm otherkin was a joke, btw. I was trying to point out that it's amazingly easy to feel like someone's comments are marginalizing you when all they wanted to say was that, for example, they're not disabled and therefore not in a position to contribute to your zine about disability.)

And clearly since Ksol said your post is okay, then it is. You don't need my approval, just giving you my opinion.

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ques-nova.livejournal.com

why wouldn't you?

Because it's offtopic and thus violating community rules?

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I never made a hard and fast rule about offtopic announcements. As long as they're short and to the point I don't that much care.

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ques-nova.livejournal.com

*laughs* yeah, and I actually read your comment after I made mine, but I was just teasing her. Alot of communities either don't have rules against off topic posts or generally don't enforce them. I just find it a little funny that it took that many comments to make the point that it was off-topic.
Though, from one moderator to another, you may want to clarify that off-topic posts are ok in the community info because the way it's phrased now, it sounds like they're not and I know how much it irks me when community members try to argue with me about my own rules.

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transman58.livejournal.com

thank you for posting this...i am a disabled trannyfag who is also part of a system (the hawk's nest) and i'm sure there are other folks here who would be into writing for RESTRICTED. i know i will probably be writing something for the upcoming edition.
and as soon as i get some money i will be ordering Volume 1 Issue 1. thanks again.

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Yay I am so excited! My friend Joelle is a trans woman who wrote for the zine this time around....so you're among friends and allies and family!! :)

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ques-nova.livejournal.com

Hooray for off-topic shameless promotions!

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I'm not against offtopic promotions as long as they're not too long. There are several disabled-body groups on this community. I read it at first, wondered what being disabled had to do with being plural, then figured it was just a general announcement or had been posted because there are a lot of GLBTEtc. on this community (several of ^us included). Then remembered I had an old friend& who was disabled and plural. I think a couple of them would have liked a zine like this very much.

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i wasn't so sure this is off-topic but i can delete it if it is. It's caused a lot of controversy which in my opinion is good - people need to talk about things that are rarely talked about - but I only posted it here because I fall into all of the aforementioned categories - queer, disabled, multiple - and figured that if I belong here and didn't belong to a community about anything else and someone posted this here - that as a multiple - I would appreciate being told. I would appreciate being respected as more than a "multiple"...that there's more to me. But that's just me - that's just the way I see it.

I think one of the sad parts about fractionalizing minorities into various groups (the people of color here, the queers here, the disabled here, hte women here, the multiples here, the low-class folk here, the immigrants here...etc.) is that we forget that people are messy - they don't fit in one category. We each belong to lots of "minority' and "majority" groups and because of that our experience as part of one group is going to be different than someone elses....white women have a different experience than black women, queer jews struggle with different stuff that queer christians, immigrant white folk don't have the same privilege as 3-rd generation american white folk of middle class backgorund....stuff like that. And that's what I want to talk about. This zine was hte first project.

But I can take it down if people prefer. i don't want to step on toes too much....

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I would appreciate being respected as more than a "multiple"...that there's more to me.

There's more than "being multiple" to everyone in this community, but that doesn't mean that posts about unrelated things aren't going to catch people offguard. Obviously more than one person thought you were trying to be on-topic and equate multiplicity to a disability. I think it's more of a question of how you chose to word it than anything.

the sad parts about fractionalizing minorities into various groups is that we forget that people are messy - they don't fit in one category.

That's why people join more than one LJ community. =P

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