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[linnai.livejournal.com]

Do you ever notice it's really hard to relate to people, face to face, and a hell of a lot easier to be open and talk about yourself online?

This may be just me. The body's girlfriend knows about Us. And she really tries hard. So do our roommates (friends we really trust). And we really find it hard to identify ourselves or just... BE ourselves around them. We sort of all mash into this certain set of rules when we're physically around people.

Where, at the same time, we talk to them all really freely online, them knowing who exactly they're talking to and we all have really different relationships with them...

Seems like only a couple of us are really comfortable being ourselves around people. And them's the ones that have really influenced life in a very overly noticed way (like the way they dress for example).

I'm told there's a really good reason for this :) Just wondering about how other people felt.

Comments

[shandra.livejournal.com]

We used to find it easier online, and it was something like you said - although those of us who are more extroverted tend to dominate *either* on or offline.

But over the last few years that's sort of translated into face to face relationships. It's helped that people have found their own niches in our regular/offline life, with the social groups that come along with that.

So I guess for us, it wasn't comfortable and we eventually had to change it, but it was a very gradual process, like a decade. :)

We do have a kind of series of characteristics that are something like a mashing together as you said, or a mask. I think the thing is - it used to be automatic, and strong, and now it's more of a choice. So it doesn't feel constraining, just more like a way of achieving a bit of consistency when we want to.

I think that many people have a variety of social masks anyway, multiple or not.

[firewheelvortex.livejournal.com]

Hm.

Well, I've noticed that it depends a lot on who we are with, but we definitely do have a polity that anyone who IS going to be around us for any length of time accepts the rule that "If you want to eat, you have to thank Maude by name." And so forth. For some of us, being noticed is not such a huge issue, but we don't like feeling we HAVE to hide.

I tell people that we tell that it's a trust issue, so feel EXTREMELY complemented. Especially if a little flops on them.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

We don't have any specific rules like that yet. But I definitely understand. Like our resident interior decorator gets total recognition for the awesome stuff she does with the bedroom and the artists get recognition for their work. Yep, I get that.

I just kind of feel awkward not getting recognized or even asked about it from the people we HAVE trusted. But probably they aren't sure how to handle the situation.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

I find it difficult to interact face to face because I have issues with speaking in the body. It feels very uncomfortable, unnatural, and it sounds very odd to me. I haven't done it much either, so I get very very nervous, and when we get nervous we just default to Lu. Just the way we work.

I'd likely find it easier if Lu's fiance talked to me directly, but he doesn't so I just have to work with what I can.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

That really sounds rough. Our roommates do that. We trusted them with knowing but there's no recognition there. They just treat everyone like a moody single person all the time.

Sorry about Lu's fiance not directly talking to you. That just sounds like a bad situation to me.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

It's not *so* bad. I wish he would. He acknowledges us as two people, but generally, even if he surely must know it's me fronting, he interacts as with Lu. I think he just isn't sure how to act, whether he'll offend me, whether he'll get mixed up.

We praise him for the efforts he's making. It's the only way progress stays and continues.

[withfangs.livejournal.com]

Max doesn't talk to anyone but my boyfriend, IRL, and even then, he's hesitant about it.

He gives me suggestions at work, and has mentioned how he'd prefer to be the one working, but he hasn't come all the way to front there, just yet.

Online, however, he's quite active, but feels bad about it b/c he knows that I have things to do with my life. We're trying to come up with a decent schedule, for time sharing.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

Our job is online, talking with customers through email and chat about their computer problems so it's easy for me to go to work, interact, handle things my way when it's my turn or I'm needed.

I do find it hard to talk to people physically, though, personally. Sometimes it's just a guy thing, and a guy in a girl's body thing, but since some of the girls also have problems with it, I know it isn't just a ME thing.

[withfangs.livejournal.com]

Ahh...I'm a hostess at my local Applebees, and he loves the people, he's just hesitant about how my sudden, and complete change in personallity might look to other people on staff.

We understand what you're going through, though, and we've been told on several occasions that no one notices when THEY do it, but I think other systems aren't quite as drastically different as we are.

I've also found that Max is trying to get feminine mannerisms down, so he doesn't look too much like a boy when he's fronting. Now, I've noticed a change in stride when it's him walking, and a change in vocal patterns. I'm REALLY picky, though, so it might just be me noticing.

it like depends if it's about being out or being open

[judiff]

it's like easyer for me to be out online but some of the others find it easyest to be out in real life (mostly cos they are little and can't type so well) and ludy (who is the persion who is out most find sit pretty much even) although she is like pretty shy in real life - none of us are that good at real life socail skills.

[etana.livejournal.com]

none of us feeling comfortable as ourselves around outsiders, but online we can be a little more fluid (not that we are, we've a lot of issues with this and it would take a very special person to get us out of our thick shells) so only the frontrunner talks to people. However we are getting better about talking about DID, but we still cringe when anyone who is even teh slightest hip mentions it. We have had really bad experiences with being "out" to people. Oh well.....yeah....we feel ya.

AND THAT TATTOO IS AMAZING!!

[linnai.livejournal.com]

Heh. Lots of us have problems with talking about it at all. If we have to, we do a lot of weird/stupid things during the conversation. If I'm standing up, I have a tendency to fall while talking about something that makes me uncomfortable. Some of us laugh a lot too when it isn't funny. :)

There was just a sort of bad experience when the front runner or primary person or something like that sort of took over tho. Made us all "behave" and now she's gone, we're working on trying to be more ourselves outside, instead of all fluid and stuff all the time.

oops, repost! sorry! ^^;

[let-it-rush.livejournal.com]

Yeah -- I guess it's because you're not contained to a visual online. In RL, you've got a body that may or may not reflect who's up at the time. It's like you can't type in two different AIM Windows at the same time iRL, so to speak -- so if two people want to hold a conversation with one of your friends, it's kind of awkward.

Just edge in on it. It's good you have people willing to listen to everyone, I think practice will make perfect. Best of luck to you with everything! :)

-ES

Re: oops, repost! sorry! ^^;

[linnai.livejournal.com]

Oh, thanks a bunch! Encouragement rocks and I think you're right anyhow.

Because some of the most important people sharing our lives are at least open to the idea, it makes it easier. The parents are NOT open to the idea, but we live on our own and shit and we've sort of accepted they've tried to be blind to a lot, for forever.

[let-it-rush.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I don't think I ever want my parents to know. More power to you for being honest about it.

The girlfriend issue we can relate to, and it's good that she tries. Just give it time! We've only be aware and open for about seven months now, so we're ALL adjusting...

Even though it sounds silly, do you all modify your voices sometimes? That helps, even if it's just letting someone's way of talking flow out of the mouth. :)

And I throw more encouragement to you!...because everyone needs it sometimes. :D

-ES

[linnai.livejournal.com]

Um... the modifying voices thing I think is mostly natural. I do talk different than say, Ada for instance. And Lynne has a really deep sort of smoky voice I guess. So there are some audio clues. For some reason the girlfriend picks up on that I'm not female. I appreciate it a lot, too!

We were really expecting a fiasco about it. But we started in slowly and kind of got "You're not a multiple, Angie(body name)." And they said no more about it. So it wasn't a great experience, but could have been FAR worse.

Everyone needs encouragement yes! We're grateful for it! And happy to send it your way too, if you need it! Totally.

[littlebus.livejournal.com]

The body's girlfriend knows about Us. And she really tries hard.

Speaking as a girlfriend, it *is* hard. I've made it a point to try never to ask for one over the other, just to accept who is there (six months now, and I can count on one hand the times when I've had to ask to speak to "not you").

But yes, I have noticed they switch more often/easier in front of the screen than when we talk in person.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

We had this time when Eli felt really betrayed by someone not so long ago, and really needed out time, and after she was out, crying and being really hurt for a bit, we all started to sort of voice our opinions to the girlfriend. Everytime Snow started to talk about, you know, really honestly hurting the person that was at fault with her fists, Ana would ask to talk to El again and it was cool because Snow has a tendency to think that fists solve that kind of thing and she was just upsetting El more.

Thanks so much for the input! Appreciate it!

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

Even as a group ourselves, it can be startling when some of the multiples we know switch front. And if there's a couple people in the same body who talk,move,etc similarly, it can take a while before we know who we're talking with.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

We get that. I am noticabley different to Lu, but only really to those who've been dealing with me, and Paul hasn't, so he seems to often take the switch as just a slight mood change of Lu's.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Additional to the body and voice issues, the cultural atmosphere in this society forbids behaving as a multiple where it would be noticed. To break that inhibition is very difficult. No one wants to get the lecture, you know -- the one with the concerned friend who sits you down someplace quiet and leads off with "I'm worried about you".

In addition, friends who do accept often don't know, as has been pointed out, how to relate. Is it polite, for example, to ask for John when Mary is present? What if I inadvertently ask a "dumb" question? This discomfort can't contribute to an atmosphere that makes ^people feel welcome.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

That's really been part of the problem recently, tho, is that some of us feel like we aren't getting ENOUGH recognition. It isn't Ana's fault. She TRIES really hard, and she's starting to tell subtle differences, or that it's likely I didn't personally suggest we go and drown someone we're having a problem with, for example.

I don't actually think we've ever had the "I'm worried about you" conversation! More just the, she knows and is there for support sort...

But yeah, with us deciding we really want to individually get out some and stuff, it's hard to feel welcome sometimes.

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

She may not want to risk upsetting some of you if she guesses the wrong name. Sometimes people just don't act when they aren't sure what to do.

Gotta admit, Ms Manners doesn't really cover any proper etiquette for interacting respectfully with a multiple group. What may be flattering to one group (or people within the same group) may be threatening or insulting to another.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

*nods* Definitely true-- we've run into some people who find it offensive to be asked who's fronting, which doesn't bother us in the least. Well, with us, it depends more on how it's asked; we used to know someone who'd say "Who is this?" when someone acted just the slightest bit different. (Most of the time it was someone he knew perfectly well.) But just asking 'who am I talking to?' as an honest question is fine.

[littlebus.livejournal.com]

She TRIES really hard, and she's starting to tell subtle differences, or that it's likely I didn't personally suggest we go and drown someone we're having a problem with, for example.

Sounds like I have it easy then. There are only two of them in there and the switch is fairly obvious (male/female). There have been a few humorous examples of them switching 3/4 way through an email and one will sign a name to things they totally didn't write/don't agree with only to send an "oops - that wasn't really me" email.

But I'm getting better, I can notice the change easier as I get to know them better. They use slightly different grammer. She holds her body different than he does. Her eyes are a little more "squinty". There are a hundred little clues.

[shandra.livejournal.com]

With our husband, we have little codes, like I'll work the word fuck into a conversation or Lyr will giggle.

It annoys or interrupts us a lot to identify who we are when we switch by saying, at home especially, where I think in general a lot of us feel we shouldn't have to go around with nametags. On the other hand our husband was starting to feel like he was having to spend an awful lot of time alert to the possibility of a switch which wasn't relaxing for him either. And yeah as shatterstorm said, he was afraid of getting it wrong.

So over time we developed that kind of short hand - little in-jokes. It seemed unfair not to drop clues. :)

[let-it-rush.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's really annoying to have to go "hi, I'm ___, not ____" in the middle of a conversation. I get impatient very easily, and I /like/ to be noticed for who I am. So I've tried to modify my voice a little, since ES and I are a lot alike.

But you raise a great point, I never really thought about it from the other side before. In-jokes sound good to me, and might work better and make our girlfriend feel way more comfortable. Thanks!

-EW

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

*chuckle* that's really cute! :D

[linnai.livejournal.com]

Talked to (the) girlfriend today about this, just to see what she had to say and who she felt most comfortable with identifying.

She said she really knows Dream, Mori, Lynne and I. She said I'm the most different. Because her "guy alarm" goes off when I'm around and I have a different way of talking and moving.

Made me happy. She said she tells Dream apart because of the sarcasm. She and Dream really jab at each other a lot (nicely, not mean). They sort of bounce off one another pretty well.

It's cool. I wouldn't have asked and she wouldn't have explained it to me if you hadn't mentioned the in-jokes. Thanks.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

People apparently still seem to be intimidated by asking us questions like who's out front or how our operating system works. They keep saying that they're afraid of asking 'stupid questions,' although we've told them there are none, but everyone seems to think they'll say something wrong and offend us. o_O I'm not sure what we're doing which might give off that impression-- we're really very easygoing when it comes to being asked about ourselves. What bothers us more is when someone we've told tries to avoid the subject, as if it'll go away if they never talk about it.

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

We've had something like what you mentioned above happen with us very recently. We'd prefer the questions than the confusion or bitterness that eventually will happen if nothing is said.

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

Around people who are comfortable with the concept of multiplicity as a state-of-being it isn't a problem. They seem to be in the minority however.

We don't generally tell people - we let them come to that realization on their own. It has been interesting to watch who does, and how they deal with it. Most have been very circumspect and kind, if somewhat confused.

Here, we're blunt about being a group. This is an environment where that's not going to generate pointless problems. The majority of our online presence appears singleton.

Most of the people we interact with in the flesh consider us a singleton. One of our mates realizes that we're plural. We've never discussed names; there's been no need. The other just assumes "I" have some strongly displayed moods, and that the changes in speech patterns and body language are just a part of that.

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Online we're really open about how we are. And peple can tell us apart sometimes, esp in IRC where we change handle depending on who's out. Last night was talking to this guy Rob, I actually met him in RL, and he was talking about how he's totally convinced, he knows Chris as well and apparently we "feel" completely different.

Offline, most of our friends know, but NOT anyone at work. We're starting to get better about being ourselves around friends but it use to be tough. When Chris was main front, if I saw someone coming up to us, I'd get all ready to talk to them, and then *bam* I disapar si anhrioud bt. ot too whefo mathe to e per, b Ius be ner Iswitch

Wow. What happened there? I'm leaving that coz it's funny, but what I ACTUALLY said was, I disappear inside and Chris comes out. It took a while before any of them actually talked to me in person, because I'd get so ervous I'd switch.

With our family, they know, and they're getting better too. Our brother likes to guess who he's talking to, and can talk to us about different things. He knows I know more about graphics and design then, say, Nara, and Nara can cook better then the rest of us, and Chris can help with his Spanish homework. He'll ask who he's talking to, but less often now coz we don't want to answer it three times a conversation, but then the mtoher will still call us Chris like five seconds after that.

[saturniakitty.livejournal.com]

It's easier for us to talk about ourselves online as well, as well as just *be* ourselves.

[ex-khailitha846.livejournal.com]

What ksol said about social identity.

Also... because it seems like a survival mechanism to remain anonymous in most social situations, I've noticed that quite a number of multiples have the ability to "speak through" whoever is in front, or, in Our case, We actually have someone who has no short-term memory storage and who acts as a "mask" or a "costume" that anyone can stand behind, do or say what they want, and then fade back again. She's in front almost all the time.

Another thing I'm thinking is that We have a tendency to engage in rapid-fire conversations amongst Ourselves and, when interjecting everyone's thoughts into a real-time dialogue, it would be really tedious and cumbersome to have to identify who originated each statement, or even each phrase. Online, or in the paper journal, it's so much easier to indicate when the "voice" has changed.

There is a certain amount of energy involved in getting someone all the way into the body (and getting someone else out of the way), but when writing, they don't have to bother with the gate and can say whatever they want.

[redrainstorm.livejournal.com]

We are really comfortable online to a few people. One is Debbie, a person we recently went and stayed with for 2 weeks... Before going down there, many were intimidated, and even though we've talked with her for years, felt it would be "weird".
Truly, the only reason some came out was because of Leilani, the brave little who dominated most of the time while down there! The littles, didn't care, but the teens/adults, they sure did.
One BIG reason I was told for this, was that they feared most outsiders would not understand Mult. and would "laugh" or make faces, etc. It's one thing to talk online and change font to identify ourselves, but another to allow someone to SEE and HEAR the changes we present. The boys especially said they "felt gay being in a girls body in front of them".

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

It's one thing to talk online and change font to identify ourselves, but another to allow someone to SEE and HEAR the changes we present. The boys especially said they "felt gay being in a girls body in front of them".

About 'feeling gay,' we have pretty much learned to deal with the fact that what may be a heterosexual relationship to one of us is perceived as a lesbian relationship by the rest of the world (or at least the majority of it-- we can say we're transgendered to some people who might not understand about the multiplicity thing). But although everyone in here who's heterosexual is okay with gay relationships, that doesn't mean we don't want it to be seen as what it really is-- not out of any homophobia, but because we want people to look past the bodies.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

We actually have someone who has no short-term memory storage and who acts as a "mask" or a "costume" that anyone can stand behind, do or say what they want, and then fade back again. She's in front almost all the time.

We've got 'public face'-- kind of an agreed-upon set of reactions, opinions and behaviours that whoever's in front holds to when we're pretending to be single. There's also 'public voice,' which is how people are used to hearing us speak.

[thehumangame.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It's partially because of stuff like this that we aren't terribly attached to viewing ourselves as actual, literal separate people. Because if we took that as an absolute given, then we'd have to bring in even more constructions to explain exceptions, and that's messy. >.> Sometimes it just feels like trying to explain the motions of the planets using spheres rather than ellipses.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to jump in and say, this is a great conversation, and I'm totally overwhelmed by the input and opinions. Sorry if I haven't gotten around specifically to someone... too much for me to think about! :)