...And yet another question. Sorry.

[sharpsight.livejournal.com]

The more information/data that can be gathered, the better--the more serious or more important the matter is, the more important that gathering of as much data as possible. Regardless of how much data I expect to gain via the asking... I have to ask.

My question, to sum up, deals with this article, the second section in particular. To quote (and thus justify the lj-cut)...

[quote]
'We refer to this process as individuation. Before you can figure out where you fit and what your role in a collective is, or can be, you have to know and adequately define for others who you are and what you do. This process can be difficult and it can be painful, it's often exciting and it sure requires a lot of intense concentration. But since it is a process undertaken by each individual, it doesn't have to take up the whole attention of the collective.

In other words, nobody has to "wait their turn," everyone can get started.

Progress will be affected by things like system resources, of course. This is an energy- intensive process; you will need lots of it in all forms. Meditation, food, prayer, running, social activities, alone time in a forest, fasting on a mountaintop, writing, reading - all these things may provide the energies you need for a particular task/person. Don't be surprised by odd desires, needs, and cravings; within the bounds of reason and prudence, indulge them.
[/quote]

In my/our day-to-day existence, I/we have very little time in which to complete those things that we try to stay on top of--thus adding to the relative importance of gaining whatever data is available.

To even more specify the relevant text, said text constitutes the last sentence of the first paragraph, and the sentence that makes up the second paragraph. The question itself... comes down to the essence of both my previous questions here. In a word, how?

We can shape such a place of interest; we can, at least to some extent, experience it directly. However, 'multi-tasking' has, so far, not met with anything that could be called success; any attempts, while mildly successful in themselves, inevitably result in decreased concentration for all concerned. Attempts to separate our perceptions have led to one continuing to experience the physical world, as planned, but the other simply being driven metaphorically underground, or to use a different metaphor to simply be suppressed. When direct communication is re-established, no mental activity is reported during the period of experimentation.

Thoughts, suggestions, anecdotes... any data at all would be appreciated. One hypothesis that this situation is merely another aspect of another one, but if so, it's not obvious enough to be certain (and to make it not worth asking this, albeit very long, question).

Thank you for your time.

Comments

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

You might like to ask Bob himselves (http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=firewheelvortex); they wrote that.

We have not experienced everything he talks about there -- we've got other entries about this if you'll check back in previous posts on this community.

The questions you ask are ones we ask ourselves at times.

[sharpsight.livejournal.com]

Interesting. Thank you very much. *bows gratefully; follows link, as well as heading towards the community archives*

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

You are more than welcome.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

we have difficulties multitasking...and not all of us remember everything everyone else does...but we work cooperatively...and we don't experience the non-activity you describe...if I'm fronting, Rick might be doing something else, and Faith and Tara are spending time together...


Liz
Pack Collective

[sharpsight.livejournal.com]

*nods quietly*

(The question is... how?)

[pengke.livejournal.com]

How do you separate your perceptions? Is it possible that the process you use causes the other two to shut down?

What about when you don't separate your perceptions? Can you have one dealing with the physical world and the other two interacting in the other place but with overlap between the two?

[sharpsight.livejournal.com]

Ay-II) That seems the most likely hypothesis. The question is--what other process is there?

Bee) Yes; however, as mentioned above, the concentration of all concerned suffers beyond tolerable levels.

Ay-I) Hrm. *stops; thinks for a moment* ...hard to describe. I attempt to concentrate on these physical perceptions, while metaphorically pushing away any form of mental contact or communication with the others. When I resume communication, they claim to remember nothing from the intervening time besides what they can look at from my own memories.

[pengke.livejournal.com]

Maybe you could try the opposite. Instead of the person using the body breaking the contact, have the other two concentrate on something else and try to exclude the person fronting.

You can also practice splitting your perceptions. If you do it for about fifteen minutes before you go to bed at night, it's not taking a lot of time or disrupting things because you're unable to concentrate. It might become easier. Or you could start with that then try to separate the perceptions.

It's possible that where the other two are is part of the memory problem. We have three distinct areas. To use the ever popular house metaphor, think of it like a room with two doors. Outside one door is the real world. Anyone standing in that doorway can physically control the body. Outside of the other door is our own little world. Inside the room is a lot of nothing. Everything there is purely at a mental level. There's no touching, emotions are very contagious, psychosomatic carsickness from the sufferer affects everyone in the room, ect. Basically, it's nothing like either world.

If someone in the room stops paying attention to what's going on in the real world, their memories of that time will be hazy or nonexistant. For example, recently two of us were having a nice discussion while babysitting our youngest who was coloring. The kid who was coloring remembers his discussions with people outside but we only have vague memories of what he was doing and we don't remember anything about our own discussion beyond the topic. On the other hand, people in the other place can keep track of what's going on in the real world, talk to people in the room, and do their own thing and have no problem with remembering things.

Oh! You might also want to experiment with alcohol. Sometimes it does strange things to group operations so it might help with dividing people.

[sharpsight.livejournal.com]

Very interesting; thank you. *reviews; nods slightly*

For... various reasons, I'll/we'll keep in mind the alcohol-related suggestion for future reference, but likely not experiment with it in the short term. Thank you none the less.

Hmm.

[morgil-lomion.livejournal.com]

We have similar problems. It has become clear to us that while there can be several people "up top" at a time and they can be in communication with those "down below", it seems as if, when communication with those who are still in our headspace ceases, they sometimes go into a sort of limbo where, although still existing, don't seem to have thoughts or particular memories of what they are experiencing. In thinking back it is almost as though we are "remembering" characters in a story rather than our own experiences, or possibly a dimly remembered dream.

We have come to an indefinite understanding of this as something related to how we view the reality of our world. It is almost as though it is a place born into myth. A dreamscape not fully real to us and so, not fully realized in our experiences. We are working to make it more of a functional reality so that we do not have to become bored with our stays there. It is very boring when the totality of possible experience in a place is summed up in phrases like "I was flying..." or "I think he's been reading his books again" yet the landscape one was flying over or the books one were reading are indistinct and, on a practical level, completely non-descript forms rather than the real thing.

Finally...

[firewheelvortex.livejournal.com]

One of the strange things that I've come to rely on is that the "I" behind the eyes doesn't have to think about all of this stuff as much as y'all might think.

Indeed, if I try, I get a polite "mind your own business" or the equally brusque image of a centepede on it's back, trying to figure out how to forget thinking about how to walk.

Mostly the thing has been to have an idea occur and sorta pass it on "down the line" to Otherwhere... to be implemented by someone more direclty connected with the firmware.

But one thing I and lots of other multis advise letting go of is the "front is in charge" paradigm.

First - as freaking if.

Second - front is hard enough without direct supervision of everything everyone else does - from poetry to supervising the immune system and running the metaphysical firewalls.

Front exists to interact with THIS reality. Front's view of "otherwhere" or inside is often limited in order to make that easier. Of course, front DOES have the right to kick anyone who's jiggling the controls off the "bus." (a bus is often used as a metaphor for how close anyone is to front. The "driver" is the current frontrunner... but there's lots of folks able to see out the front window with varying degrees of clarity, meanwhile chatting to one another.

So when I talk to a front, I'm also addressing everyone on the bus. And front may or may not have to do anything with this.

Anyway - otherwhere or inside may be dimly realized by "front" - but not at all dim to those who live therein. The body and liniar time impose some filters, and it IS dreamlike. Dreams are experiences with out liniar time issues, cause and effect issues, etc.

So don't try and force it, I guess is what I'm saying. Let it evolve, and let others of yous otherwhere do the evolving. When they "pop out" to describe it or draw it, don's second guess, or try and make it seem... more reasonable. Just let it happen.