Not Okay... Only another Multiple might understand...

[prettyrazor.livejournal.com]

Hey Everyone,
It's Justin. I know I haven't posted in ages, but... eh, I haven't been on the surface much, either, and I haven't really been okay.
I need people who understand, and I guess you all would understand better than anyone, right? Quick re-intro, for those who don't know me or forgot who I am. (::gasp:: Forgot? How COULD you??? LOL.) I am Justin. I am a 16 year old male alter in a 21 year old female body. I'm a wise-ass. I crack jokes a lot. I'm usually pretty happy and upbeat. I really am. Lately, though, it's been hard for me to stay upbeat.
Okay, so this could be kind of triggering, so I'm putting the rest of this behind an LJ cut... Don't read the rest of this you're not safe, alright?



Anyway, I'm dating this girl... See, we all are, technically, but our girlfriend is a multiple, too, and the girl I am dating is an alter, and she's JUST mine. MINE, I tell you. And we were giving Mac and Stacy (the first two to pair off between our systems... Hell, they were practically dating before the systems were, LOL.) competition for cutest couple in the systems.
Basically, Claudia (my girlfriend) and I met because she had been hurt, and she'd snapped. She was losing it. She was ready to off herself. They decided that I, being the wise-ass that I am, might be able to make her laugh. We hit it off. We were so close... We'd sit in Battery Park at, like, one in the morning (dangerous, I know) and talk about the tourist boats and how we should drown them. (Um, long story. We are New Yorkers. We don't like tourists unless we know them personally.) And we had these inside jokes about drowning tourists and stealing their digital cameras, wallets, laptops (if they are pretty), and dogs. (Longer story. I guess you had to be there.) And other inside jokes, stuff that only we got, like "Get your hand out the cat's ass..." (She was depressed. I'm a goofball. I took a handpuppet of a cat, put it on my hand, and started talking to her with it, like, "Smile... Be happy... Claudia... I love you..." And when she said "Justin, get your hand out the cat's ass," I still used the puppet voice and put its paws over its mouth and was like, "I feel so violated...") It's just stupid little shit like that that made us who we were... I became a better person with her, and then I forgot how to exist without her.
There isn't an easy way to say this part. Claudia destroyed herself recently. I have no idea if she can be fixed this time. She's done it before, but what if this time, she doesn't come back? She'd only been back for a little while before she was destroyed again this time. I really don't know if her system can fix her. (Yeah, our systems are complicated, I know. We have alters who destroy themselves. Dramatic, no? Talk about teen angst.)
I don't know how to exist without her. I don't know anything right now. I've started having urges that I have NEVER had before, urges to hurt myself, my BODY. I'm NOT a cutter, but I nearly cut recently... If Jason hadn't overpowered me, I would have. I'm one of the system's protectors, but I'm breaking... I don't know what I'm doing anymore. And our best friend just majorly made us feel like shit in her livejournal because she said she can't relate to us now that she's not depressed anymore and she feels bad about that, and it's like, "Dude, what are we, just some annoying reminder of her past that she can't bare to throw away, that she keeps around out of pity?" WTF?? It really set us off, and I'm feeling those urges again, those cutting urges... And because I'm a protector, very few people can overpower me, and I don't want to let anyone else surface. I want to self-destruct. I'm losing my fucking mind. (Wait, don't you need to actually HAVE one of those before you lose it?) I need... I don't know. I need SOMETHING. Help me. Fix me. I broke.

Later,
Justin

Comments

[luwana.livejournal.com]

Everyone breaks. Everyone has a breaking point. Even these so called 'protectors'.

What horrifies you so much about cutting? If cutting is going to help, maybe you should do it.

You have to cope however you can. Does music help? Computer games? Writing? Cutting? Whatever. Anything that helps you to stay calm is a good thing.

If you're going to do it, take a deep breath and make sure you're calm and sane enough for it.


(Ps, what your best friend said was shit, and I don't think she deserves the label 'best friend' after that.)

[dark-blade.livejournal.com]

Uhm, if cutting were going to help I suggest one of the alternate types: Snapping with a rubber band, using a marker, ice/icewater...

[dark-blade.livejournal.com]

Justin, we don't really know what to tell you. One of our protectors started having problems, but it's because she was on guard ALL the time and the only one really out for recent years. We've also had problems with friends in another system doing things... but they come back, though one of them very changed...

Maybe you should stay back in your own area and rest a bit?

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

Cutting is NOT going to help. Neither is getting drunk, taking drugs, driving like a maniac, isolating yourself from everybody, or any of the other stupid, self-destructive things people do when they feel overwhelmed by their emotions.

Self-destruction is intrinsically stupid. You know that already. Keep reminding yourself.

My advice is that you don't "keep calm" - that you go ahead and give those overwhelming emotions an outlet, a SAFE outlet. Cry, scream, keen, curse and sob - depending on your living-situation, you may have to put some effort into finding the privacy to do this - driving to an isolated place, parking, and cranking up the car stereo is good (do not do it while driving.) Just let it all rip - no, you won't "cry forever", even if it feels like it at the time. Cry till you're done. Repeat as needed.

See, tears and keening are the body's natural way of releasing pain. If you don't release it that way, it stays stuck, which leads to the desire to "release" it through cutting, numb it out through drinking, etcetera. You're not "broken" because you're grieving; you're not "crazy" because you need to cry and scream , and you're not being unreasonable in feeling betrayed by friends who don't stand by you when you need them.

Negative self-talk (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22negative+self-talk%22&btnG=Google+Search) is also self-destructive behavior, so if you've been telling yourself things like "I can't go on, I can't live without her, my life is over", stop it, and start substituting positive affirmations (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&safe=off&q=%22Positive+affirmations%22&btnG=Search).

Depression's like any other kind of addiction, hon - it's a self-perpetuating pattern of destructive behavior, in which you crave all the things that are bad for you, and resist the things which would be good for you. Listening to another severely depressed, self-destructive person tell you that cutting's okay is exactly like listening to an alcoholic tell you there's nothing wrong with dealing with problems by getting drunk.

Do not sit alone in your house playing computer games, listening to sad or angry music, and writing about how terrible you feel. And definitely do not start cutting yourself. Get the heck out of your house; go for long walks in the fresh air, go rent some cheerful movies and watch them with cheerful friends - exercise, dance, invite someone over to bake a zillion holiday cookies, go volunteer somewhere - this is a great time for volunteer work, and there's no better cure for sorrow than helping others.

*hugs* You'll get through this. You just have to do the things that will help you get through it - despite your not feeling like doing them - and avoid doing things that will make you feel worse in the long run, even if you do feel like doing them. After that, it's a matter of time, which really does heal. Believe it; it's true.

[shadowechoes.livejournal.com]

BIG ditto to this. Couldn't have said it better myself. Obviously, since all I'm saying is ditto...

Anyway, Justin, listen to Elenbarathi's advice. *hugs* I'm sorry this had to happen, but don't let it destroy you. Hopefully this time she will come back as well, and I'm sure she wouldn't be happy to find you being self destructive.

Oh, and your post made perfect sense to me. A lot of the people in Our system are involved with their own SOs that happen to all be in other system. And a lot of Us have a weird sense of humor too. ;)

Hang in there Justin.

~Jayla

[forever-alone.livejournal.com]

That was such an excellent way to put that. I agree with you completely, and I wish I could bring myself to follow that advice as well.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

All that is very well and good in the long run. My priority in my post was avoiding suicidal cravings, which many people in Justin's situation can have.

I cut, I drink, I listen to angry music and play destructive computer games, I'm even looking into soft drugs like weed. These things distract me from more serious self harm.

In the long run, yes, try to get out more, try to channel into something more creative, more positive. In the short term though, do what it takes. For some people that is cutting, and if cutting is the only thing that keeps you away from the edge, do it. Better that than suicide.

Cutting is not good, cutting is not great. Cutting is a coping method, a bad one, and most cutters know that. But it is a coping method, and for some people it's what it takes for them to stay sane until they can begin to heal in the ways you described.

It's only going to make a person feel worse by putting them down for their choices. I know that somebody telling me "omg don't cut! go for a walk!" would make me want to hit them, and then make me want to cut more.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

If you choose to engage in self-destructive behaviors, that's your choice - and since you're apparently not asking for help to stop engaging in them, I'm not telling you that you should stop. I don't tell the alcoholics I know that they should stop drinking either, because I learned a long time ago how futile that is.

However, if one were to say "Help me, I don't want to do this", I surely would NOT say "Oh, go ahead and drink; it's better than doing something even more self-destructive". There's a word for that - it's called enabling - and enabling is NOT helping.

Justin's saying here that he doesn't want to cut; he's asking for help to keep from doing it - therefore it's clearly not "his choice", so telling him not to do it isn't "putting him down".

If you feel "put down" by having it pointed out that self-destructive behavior (of any sort) is intrinsically stupid, then that's your own issue to deal with. Sorry, but it is stupid, and calling it a "coping mechanism" doesn't make it less so.

Everybody engages in stupid behavior at times; everybody sometimes has self-destructive impulses - I've done more than my share of stupid, self-destructive things myself, so I'm not taking any sort of moral high ground here. But refusing to engage in denial by honestly saying "yes, that was a stupid, self-destructive choice" is the essential first step to finding better choices.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

You didn't just put down cutting, you put down other valid coping behaviours. If I want to kill myself, or justin wants to kill himself, or anybody wants to kill themselves, "take a walk in the park" is somewhat unlikely to help.

Cutting is stupid. Drinking to feel better is stupid. Y'know, the other day to feel better I had several orgasms. Is that stupid too?

I will not defend cutting as a long term solution. What irritates me is that everyone is DON'T CUT! DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE! when sometimes cutting is the only way.

The fact that you seemed to be against using music to help ease short term pain didn't help your case either.


To me, it's more stupid than anything else you have called thus, for a person to say "I don't want to cut!", us say "DON'T! IT'S STUPID! DO SOMETHING SILLY LIKE WALK!" and them then, lacking a powerful enough short term outlet, seriously injure themselves, kill themselves, or just otherwise fall into a highly unstable emotional state.

You might see that as fantastic, for a person to end up worse off because somebody encouraged them not to use safe outlets like music and methods of pain infliction mentioned elsewhere like ice. I don't. I see the person surviving the night as more important than standing up for some misplaced ideals that could leave them dead.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

"You didn't just put down cutting, you put down other valid coping behaviours."

Wrong. Read it again. I didn't "put down" anything but self-destructive behavior. Cutting is self-destructive. Drinking to numb out feelings is self-destructive. Having orgasms, however, is not self-destructive, unless you're having them in ways that endanger you.

You'll note that I specifically said "sad and angry music" was not helpful. Some kinds of music ARE helpful - I'd highly recommend Bach's Brandenburg Concertos as an antidote to sorrow and angst. Blasting the grim stuff is only going to make a person feel worse in the long run, since it reinforces the patterns of negative thoughts and feelings that cause the self-destructive impulses in the first place.

Going for a walk instead of cutting is not "silly". For one thing, it's pretty hard to cut yourself while walking, and sometimes putting off self-destructive behavior is all it takes to stop the cycle. For another thing, exercise releases endorphins, which naturally relieve pain and emotional distress. And finally, the world is very beautiful, if one gets out and actually looks at it, and looking at it frequently can make a person less inclined to want to leave it.

Sonce your "short-term solutions" apparently haven't done any good in the long run - because you're still engaging in self-destructive behaviors - I think suggesting them to someone else is what is "misplaced".

*shrugs* You seem to be operating on the assumption that I have no personal experience with this sort of thing; that I'm speaking only from theory. Wrong. If you live twice as long as you've already lived, and battle depression all that time, you still won't have fought it as long as I did. I won that fight, however, and what I'm speaking from is my experience of how I did it. A lot of other people have won it too, and most of them will tell you pretty much the same as what I'm saying.

Three of my friends lost, by the way - two to bullets through the brain, one (the dearest to me) to poison that must have made her last hour of life excruciatingly painful. She was a cutter. The two who shot themselves were both alcoholics. The thing about self-destructive behavior is that it's a "slippery slope" - every time you do it, you're making it just that much easier to do it again.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

*laughs* It is NOT more difficult to cut when out on a walk. It is more DANGEROUS to cut when out on a walk. How easy is it to find something? A branch, a bit of brick on the ground, a broken bottle. How easy is it to go out and be stuck alone with your thoughts and nothing but the urge to destroy yourself. I've been out walking when I've felt the urge to self harm, I've tried to walk it off, and y'know sometimes it just doesn't work.

I am not operating on any assumptions. I deliberately didn't because I just knew the 'oh well I'm older and wiser and have been through it all' arguement would smack me in the face.

I used orgasms as an example because they are a short term solution. Same with cutting. Yeah, they might scar a little if they're deep, but that's about it. There's not really much difference. To me they're two ways to get the exact same feeling.

Sad and angry music. Again, whatever it takes to keep a person from suicide. You know people who have topped themselves, and I'm sorry. Most often it's the people who are down enough TO cut that end up losing grip. That's just how it is. If I weren't so suicidal, I wouldn't cut. It's kept me going for a while, maybe it will keep doing so or maybe it won't. I cope.


A person copes how they need to. If Justin refuses to cut, fine, all power to him. I'm just offering up the support that if he feels the need to stoop to it, he's not alone, and he CAN get through this, it is NOT the end of the god damn world.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

"You'll note that I specifically said "sad and angry music" was not helpful. Some kinds of music ARE helpful - I'd highly recommend Bach's Brandenburg Concertos as an antidote to sorrow and angst. Blasting the grim stuff is only going to make a person feel worse in the long run, since it reinforces the patterns of negative thoughts and feelings that cause the self-destructive impulses in the first place."

I understand what you mean, except for one thing.

Certain types of "sad and angry music" are well worth listening to when you feel that way, because it gives words to your feelings. Lets you know someone else has felt that way. Then you know you aren't alone. Or it just lets off steam.

We used to know this girl who had depression and she would feel better after listening to Loreena McKennitt because it was uplifting and peaceful. Her best friend thought McKennitt was "dirges". So it's a matter of personal response too.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

*smiles* I listen to Loreena McKennitt all the time too. The Book of Secrets had just come out when I was going through my "walking tour of Hell", and Dante's Prayer basically became my theme song during that time.

For sure, there's a lot to be said for sad and angry music - and actually, there's a lot to be said for alcohol too. I enjoy both. However, neither one is indicated when a person is on the verge of acting on self-destructive impulses, because both of them make it easier to act on them.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

For the record, I am trying to stop. Yes I do drink and cut and all these others things, even the ones that aren't self destructive that you seemed to think weren't worthwhile like music and games. I am trying to improve my overall mood. But the fact is that some nights I feel so bad that if I don't release that emotion I would have killed myself. I would not be here now. Cutting is NOT a good long term solution, and when I don't need it anymore, when I find other things to help, when I don't feel so suicidal, I WILL stop. But cutting has kept me alive when nothing else could. I refuse to condone the blatantly ignorant opinion that is 'cutting is stupid, don't do it'. Not even if the person says they don't want to, because they probably have the same ignorant views.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* It's characteristic of people actively engaged in self-destruction to dismiss as "ignorant" the advice of people who no longer engage in it. There are plenty of alcoholics who think that drinking's the only thing that gets them through the bad times, and that if they didn't drink they'd kill themselves - and who don't believe that anyone else could possibly ever have "been there, done that".

All addiction comes from pretty-much the same place, y'know - that place where a person in pain grabs for a short-term solution, even though it's a self-destructive one, rather than addressing the real source of the problem.

Advising someone who has never cut to go ahead and do it is no different from urging someone to start using drugs. Misery loves company - that's another characteristic of addiction. So is saying "I'll stop when I feel better, but right now I need this."

As I already said, I learned a long time ago that arguing with addicts in denial is futile. If and when you get to the point where you're able to admit the truth that self-destructive behavior is stupid, you'll be ready to walk away from it - until that time, you'll keep defending it, and nobody will be able to convince you otherwise.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

I have already admitted it is stupid. I hate what i do. I am trying to find something else that actually WORKS. So far i have found NOTHING. Cutting is and always should be a LAST RESORT, for those times when it's cut your leg or cut your wrist.

I defend it because it has kept me alive. Please, if you have anything else that helps when you've gotten to the stage of curling up in the bottom of the shower then offer it to me. Because I have found nothing.

People have to do what works best for them. I will not say 'cutting is great', but I will not tell a person to refuse to cut, if it is the only option left for them to take.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

"Please, if you have anything else that helps when you've gotten to the stage of curling up in the bottom of the shower then offer it to me. Because I have found nothing."

I have already offered it to you, hon. Walk. Scream and cry. Repeat positive affirmations, even if they sound like meaningless drivel at the time, which they almost certainly will. Pray for peace and strength, to whatever Higher Power you concieve of - and if you can't concieve of any, pray To Whom It May Concern. Find some way of helping others and make a commitment to doing it.

Most importantly, when you feel self-destructive impulses, tell yourself that such behavior IS stupid and that you're not going to engage in it. Just Say No! - instead of telling yourself "I have to, it's the only thing". You don't have to; it's not the only thing... you have the power to refuse to destroy yourself.

I finally won my battle after seven months of nearly constant crying and walking. I also drank a lot, wrote a ton of desperately angst-ridden poetry (some good, some sucky), incessantly sang the most mournful Celtic laments, and ranted to my dear, patient friends.... UNTIL it finally got through my head that the drinking was making it worse; the reinforcing my angst was making it worse. I stopped doing those things, and that was when I started to get better.

Sheesh, how many miles did I walk, those seven months? Tears and rain, rain and tears; I was the Bean Sidhe of the wetlands, keening and wailing out there all hours of the night; I must have scared hell out of the coyotes. I walked and cried and prayed and said Affirmations till I was sick beyond imagining of it all, and then I went out and did it some more. Why? Because the alternative was self-destruction.

There are people who love me, and whom I love. I know exactly how terribly they'd be hurt by my suicide - oh yes, I know all too well, in the middle of suicidal ideation one always thinks "they'd be better off without me" - that's a damned lie, however. They wouldn't be better off; they'd be in miserable anguish, and wonder the rest of their lives if they could have done something, "if only". Therefore suicide is not an option. Self-destructive behavior is not an option. It's just not.

If you have to walk till your feet blister and your knees ache, do it. If you have to repeat the same stupid phrase ten thousand times, do it. If you have to talk all night to a God whom you can't even imagine, when the very idea of a God seems like the most cruel, childish lie imaginable, then do it. Whatever it takes.

You can't make a bargain with addiction, see - you can't say "oh, first I have to feel better, then I'll stop", because that's not how it works. You have to say "this stops now", and then ride out the inevitable feeling-WAY-worse that follows, when all the shit you never dealt with because you were staving it off with quick fixes, comes roaring up out of the cellar. Not a fun process, no, not at all. But worth the pain.

It's seven years now, since I went through that distinctly-not-fun process. I was 40 then, and I'd been depressed since I was 13, frequently severely enough to endanger my life. I'd tried every self-destructive "quick fix" you can think of, and a wide variety of medical and self-help options too, with no significant or lasting result. This worked.

Other peoples' mileage may vary, of course. But this is no hypothetical, idealistic advice I'm offering, based on some bogus Newage pop-psych book. I'm saying that this is what finally saved my life, and if it worked for me, I see no reason why it wouldn't work for others.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

There's a very good reason why it might not work for others. They aren't you.

We, physically, suffer from depression. But Lu is getting through it. At first she used the methods we have described, and then we she began to feel better she progressed, and she is beating it.

But that is because she has a life. She has a purpose. Meaning. Some of us don't have that luxury. And for us no amount of walking is going to change it, no amount of 'come on Selene pull yourself out of it' is going to change it.

Yes, I could tell myself "No, I refuse to cut." And I wouldn't. I'd clutch at my arms until they bruised to stop myself, I'd sob hysterically and cry myself to sleep, if I could sleep. then wake up and do it all again.

But why? For what purpose? Because somebody thinks it's 'wrong' and 'stupid' to cut? Tell me, if I get a piercing is that any better? If so why so? It's the exact same thing. Hell I got my eyebrow pierced and it stop me cutting for several days. Same thing, just more socially acceptable. More 'artistic' or some bullshit.


Not everyone can cure themselves with a bit of willpower. Some of us actually have problems which go deeper than that. And some of us have problems which can't be fixed with some crap about 'saying no'.


No, not with addiction. But with coping methods you can easily make a bargain.

Once a person begins to feel better they will stop needing their coping method. then you can wean them off it.

But while that coping method is their crutch? Take it away and they *will* fall.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

"There's a very good reason why it might not work for others. They aren't you."

*shrugs* You asked. I told you. You don't know if it would work for you or not, because you're not willing to try. As I said, that's okay; that's your choice.

I'd be interested in hearing an explanation of exactly what you think the difference is, between an "addiction" and a "self-destructive coping mechanism".

As for the difference between getting body modifications for decorative or symbolic reasons (or even just because one finds the pain enjoyable, as some people do) and cutting to stave off suicidal impulses - it's the same as the difference between drinking as a social custom or because one enjoys the taste, and drinking because one can't face life without alcohol.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

I am willing to try and I have tried. I have been in these positions and know what does and does not work for me depending on my mood at the time. If I am having a bit of a cutting craving, I can work it off. go somewhere, do something, ignore it. Like we've said though, when you're curled up in the bottom of the shower wailing, these 'pretty' solutions you offer often won't help.


Caffeine is addictive. Heroin is addictive. Things like cutting and alcohol and weed can be somewhat emotionally addictive. The difference lies in that, ones there is no longer the reason you originaly had for these behaviours, you can wean yourself off things like cutting with little ill effect. They're just coping mechnisms. It's a little harder to wean yourself off heroin, or nicotine. Those are physically addictive.


And no, me getting a piercing like that is more like an alcoholic going out social drinking. The social part, or with tattoos and piercings, the aesthetic part, is just a bonus. It's an excuse. Yes, I wanted my eyebrow done and it's kinda nice. But the main benefit, and the reason I want more piercings, is because it gives the same rush cutting does, if not better. I wasn't refering to 'normal people' doing these things. It was more a 'if an alcoholic only drinks with his friends, is that any better?' question.

Just one is more socially acceptable than the other. That's all.

Cutting

[waterbaby319.livejournal.com]

I had been battling depression since early childhood. Am now 60. Was a cutter during my early 50s. It kept me from killing myself. It also signalled others that I needed help - that I was a danger to myself. I used the diamond in my wedding ring to cut myself. I would never, ever call a person stupid for using that as a coping mechanism to avoid suicide. It is a coping mechanism when all those other things you suggested and have tried DO NOT WORK.

[luwana.livejournal.com]

Do not sit alone in your house playing computer games, listening to sad or angry music, and writing about how terrible you feel. And definitely do not start cutting yourself. Get the heck out of your house; go for long walks in the fresh air, go rent some cheerful movies and watch them with cheerful friends - exercise, dance, invite someone over to bake a zillion holiday cookies, go volunteer somewhere - this is a great time for volunteer work, and there's no better cure for sorrow than helping others.

Eh? This has to be the daftest paragraph ever o.O (For the record, I don't cut or drink or whatever.)

My best friend is a girl called Emma. I love her, her door is always open to me. When I'm so depressed I feel like I want to die, I can go over to hers. She gives me a drink and cookie and sits down with me.

Does she ask me if I want to watch American Pie? Ummm, no. I'd slap her if she did. Does she try to cheer me up? No, again I'd fucking slap her. Is she a cheerful person? Hell no, thank fuck, that'd make me MORE suicidal.

What she is good at is listening. It's like having a living breathing LJ. You get to let it all out, all the anger, all the pain, all the angst, it all comes out and afterwards it's like a load off your shoulders. She's my rock my shoulder to cry on. And I am the same fo rher.

Cheerful friends should fuck off and die :) They are good for parties and giggles, and little else. Which is great if you like parties and giggles, but shit if you're upset. People who try to 'cheer me up' when I'm down have been ripped to shreds over it. The only people it works for is people who obvious weren't that distraught to start with.

Along those lines, writing about how terrible you feel is a tool often used by shrinks. It can and does work. Let it all out on paper, take a big red marker and scribble around it, draw the wounds you want to make instead of cutting them. It all helps release tensions.

Hell, if you already have your 'impliment', use it on a block of paper instead of yourself.

Oh yes, go out and voulenteer. Not very helpfull at midnight when you're crying your eyes out, or when you can't even bear to leave your room.


I don't know about anybody else here but I love angry music when I'm very upset. I let it all out, I sing along at full volume and vent all my emotions into the music. Afterwards, the calm is amazing. It's beautiful. Classical would make me want to gouge my eyes out, it would make me very, very pissed off. Different strokes for different folks. Don't diss the healing power of angry music when a person is upset.


Like Selene said, in the long term, dancing around trees and helping really annoying old people might help you combat whatever is wrong. Perfectly valid ways to combat depression. With upset over things like this though, go on, vent, let it out. Penting it up and telling yourself your emotions are 'wrong' is only going to make you feel terrible about yourself.


(Yeah, I know the majority of this post was directed at Justin, but part of it was a reply to you :P sorry for rambling.)

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

The point is that none of these temporary methods of distracting yourself or numbing yourself out have actually fixed anything. You push the pain away, but then it comes right back; there's no resolution. If the methods you describe worked, you wouldn't still be having these bouts of being so depressed you want to die. Ergo, they do not work.

It took me a long time to get that through my head, and no one could have convinced me of it, so I'm not expecting to convince you. Obviously, you'll keep on doing what you do as long as you see any value in it, and that's okay; that's your choice.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

They do work. They're not meant to stop me being depressed :p They're meant to stop me ruining my life or killing myself while I find other ways to stop myself being depressed. They have fixed, temporarily, the suicidal urge. That buys more time to fix the ROOT of the suicidal urge. That is the whole point behind coping methods. To buy more time to actually solve the issue at hand.

I have managed to fight off a lot of my issues. I am getting there and it feels *great*. But if I hadn't had angry music and computer games and angsty huggy friends? I'd be dead. I can tell you that with absolute certainty.


~Luwana

[kasiawhisper.livejournal.com]

Don't read the rest of this you're not safe..

I don't understand what you mean by that... *blinks*

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

He meant, don't read the rest of this [if] you're not safe. He left out one crucial little word, methinks. :)

[kasiawhisper.livejournal.com]

if I'm not safe from "what"? o.O

[princesstoots.livejournal.com]

If you're not in a safe place? Maybe? Safe from triggers?

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

Sometimes self harm talk can trigger people to self harm.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

selenesb had the best answer, I think...granted, this is all conclusions based on information he may change, but I think he's applying a broad definition to triggering conversation. In other words, if you're not in a 'safe place'--if talk of cutting, self-harm, mental suicide, depression, and the like could send you over the edge of your own internal cliff, he's giving you the advice to walk on by.

Some of us, on the flip side, rarely feel safe anywhere, due to a combination of factors, so nothing's really triggering, just more or less upsetting. *shrugs* Obviously, YMMV.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

Listen to elenbarathi, definitely. I'd also say, I understand the cutting urge, BOY, do I understand the cutting urge. The last time I majorly cut though, it was September before last, so more than a year, and I managed to make a design rather than just random lines to scar. I think it's a step forward--not only one year free of the blade, but I made a thing of beauty that will help me deal with the pain.

Note, I'm not saying, hey, pick a kicky design and go for it. I understand why people cut; I don't think it's a good way to get the pain out.

I also think sharing a body should make you consider the larger issue. You cut somewhere below where short sleeves will fall, will the next person occupying the body freak out? It's not just your body; which also makes tattooing and branding interesting things...even haircuts, as was brought up earlier...

I'm worried about why Claudia 'destroyed herself', though, and I don't even know her. That seems radically extreme, even for the standard teen, let alone the teen trapped in someone else's older body. And I'd also echo that you're not losing yourself, you're not broken, you're not going crazy--but grief is so powerful, so overwhelming, it makes you feel like you're broken.

Add to that her depression--and the fact that you were cheerleading for her--and yeah, you've got a BIG cliff edge to avoid.

Biggest advice I can give you: FIND HOBBIES. It sounds stupid, but believe me, as a clinically depressed, partially disabled woman in a mostly unconscious system with blackouts...just so you know my situation...hobbies become very important when the depression drags me down. What interests you? Reading, writing, drawing? I sew, I make icons, I make graphics, I write in my journal and offline. All of these occupy a lot of time when I need time occupied. It does help, really.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

On the issue of cutting: I'm not going to engage anyone in debate about this, but can tell you about our experience. We've cut a few times when we were very depressed and desperate, and ended up feeling foolish and idiotic about it both times afterwards, and in neither case did it really help the problem. I'm not about to say you shouldn't do it, but I can at least testify to our experience, which was that it was not worth it. The problem with any kind of self-injury is that it can become somewhat addictive-- you start going back to it reflexively every time you're in a stressful situation, and it becomes something you're tied to.

Apart from that, I would agree with elenbarathi that you're going through a natural human reaction at losing her, and shouldn't worry about being crazy; there's no reason why you should feel differently about losing her than if she'd been a singlet who killed herself. She was a person. Crying can help a lot, even if it doesn't solve everything.

I can't think of a subtler way to put this, so let me just say it straight out: We've known a few systems in which people repeatedly died or destroyed themselves, and we found we couldn't deal with any of them on a long-term basis-- they all had too many issues. You may want to consider whether it's a wise idea to stay with this system on a long-term basis, if this kind of thing happens regularly to people whom your group is close to.

(By the way, it isn't necessary to use spoilers or trigger warnings in this community-- most people see it as an unneccessary form of censorship.)