Hello!

[velyrhorde.livejournal.com]

Hi all! *waves*

I'm a writer who has discovered that one of my characters is a multiple -- what can I say, characters can be every bit as surprising as alters themselves, and sometimes I wonder if writers aren't actually some kind of bizarre multiple-personality themselves!

Anyhow, I don't want him to be a cardboard-cutout or some sort of stupid stereotype, so I thought the best way to work on this would be to find some actual multiples who were willing to answer questions. I'm not talking about embarrassing personal questions like "ooo tell me all about your abusive relationships" coz I'm sure there are weirdos who get off on that sort of thing -- I'm interested in how a multiple survives in the "real" world, how the groups handle different situations, integration vs. non-integration as the way to go, how to handle internal arguments, that sort of thing.

If anybody would be interested, feel free to "friend" me or read my journal. If it's OK with people, I may occasionally post a question here and see if anybody wants to answer it. Or if enough people object to that, I could post the question on my journal and have people comment there.

Question 1 (I like to start with the easy ones) - is therapy absolutely necessary to heal, or do some multiples begin to merge/communicate/heal themselves spontaneously? AKA - will Jack (character name) realize that he is a multiple, or will he almost always think he's crazy or weird because of missing time, etc?

Comments

[plaidwater.livejournal.com]

It depends on what you mean by heal - for example, I don't think Ellen, Akyas or I are likely to be healed. We're a bit broken, but that's got nothing to do with our multiplicity.
But, yes, many systems begin communicating on their own - once it clicked for us (about a year ago), we just ... worked. We also didn't have much missing time - well, I can't remember what happened before my birth other than facts and what Anna's been kind enough to reveal over the years.

Ah, found that thread that almost drove us bonkers. Just don't do what Titivillus, Aux-Arcs and a few others talk about here (http://www.nanowrimo.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1083&forum=151). I commented in there a good deal as ObviouslyAngie.

I'd tell you to check out a few books, but at this point (I'm making the assumption that this is NaNo), that would be kind of hard to do.
Here's the thing you have to remember:
We're not all Sibyl. We're not all Eve. We're not all not them. Everyone single system is different. You cannot say "All multiples are split by X-years, but starting no later than Y" because then you run into people like E, V, and A - who were the three who were in here from birth/infancy and people like Hope and Lenore who have only recently become distinctly seperate from Ellen and I, irrespectively.

I am now getting back to my own novel, but feel free to PM me on the NaNo forums, comment back here, or e-mail us at thecoalition at gmail dot com. We don't bite.

-Angie

[velyrhorde.livejournal.com]

"healed" -- I guess I meant "able to function without totally freaking out at every little trigger" - heck, I see so many "normal" people who I honestly think are a helluva lot more non-functional than some "mentally ill" people I know that it's not funny. I pretty much tell everybody I meet that they need therapy, it's a running joke with my coworkers and friends, but I really do think most people should see a therapist at least for six months or so.

Actually, my NaNo novel is science fiction and NOT the multiple character at all -- this is why I think writing is some variation of multiple personality, coz while I'm typing away trying to get my 2000 words for the day, my evil li'l brain is going .... hullo? this is Jack and I just wanted to remind you I'm still here, and what do you think about one of my triggers being the smell of oranges, coz that really makes me bonkers you know ... Meanwhile the rest of my brain is trying to decide how an offworld race of beings are going to plot a rebellion against a computerized government that can basically read their minds.

I need therapy! oh wait, I already have therapy ... I need something else then ... *chuckling maniacally*

[ex-kiota.livejournal.com]

...Nano?

*whimper*

*scurries off to try and write another ten thousands words in the next hour*

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how much we can help here. We are multiple, this is true. More than one person in a body.

I am not a split of my host. My host has had no majorly abusive relationships, or traumatic incidents in her life. We do not lose time, rather, we are aware that time has passed and roughly what happened, but do not invade each other's privacy.

If a system has a problem, it is a problem within the system. the system is not the problem.

If you and your best friend are having a hard time staying friends, because your best friend is depressed and angry at the world, what is the problem? Is the problem that you are best friends? Of course not. The problem is their issues, and that is what should be worked upon. Integration is often stupid and pointless. It is our view that a system should learn to function.


Like any normal person, some people 'grow out of' their issues. Some people with depression, or bipolar, or GAD, recover by themselves. Sometimes they realise their issues, othertimes not.

Others find that difficult, and so need therapy. It is not a requirement for all, just a requirement for some.

Jack would probably think he was crazy. We did not lose time or anything of the sort, and my host still worried that she was crazy. Eventually he may come to terms with what he is, and learn to accept it.

not a split...

[velyrhorde.livejournal.com]

curious ... if you're not split, how did you become separated? I have always been told that there must be a trauma to cause splitting. I've had experience with dissociative disorder and that, even though it's not true splitting, requires some sort of trauma to make it become a habitual defense mechanism. I think self-mutilation is similar, some family members show that in addition to dissociation.

What makes a non-traumatized person split?

Re: not a split...

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

*laughs* I think you missed my point. I am not a split. I am not her, I never was her. I have my own history, my own life, my own memories and feelings, opinions. I serve no purpose in this body except that which I give myself.

There are different types, origins, or multiplicity. Clearly you have only read about one of them.

I am a walk-in. A spirit of sorts. I had a life before I was here, but now I am here and I share my host's body. Multiple, but not a split. It is no defense mechanism. Lu has her own defense mechanisms, I am not one of them. It's nothing like self harm (Lu self harms in a few ways, I cut, and it's nothing like that.)


If a person were a split in the sense you mean, it's possible they could come about through a sort of... extended dissociative state, or long term mild abuse.

Re: not a split...

[parisstar.livejournal.com]

Barring that, some people are just... multiple. It just, happens.

The definition of healing for every multiple is different. I, as far as I know, have quite a few alters and I don't think that we will all ever be intergrated. To tell the truth, I don't care for us all being intergrated, things would be kind of lonely. I almost always remember being multiple, with hindsight, though I just found out within the last year that I am multiple. Some other (outside) people (i.e. dividedminds) knew that I was multiple before I did. Before I realized I was multiple I fealt weird, crazy I guess you could describe. Now that I know it's kind of like "oh, that's what it was" and now, it just is.

For me, healing will be to get rid of time slips, I still have them. I don't have as much communication as I would like, but I have so me. Maybe sometimes we'll intergrate, it'll just happen, I won't try to force it to happen though. Maybe I need therapy, maybe someone else in my system needs therapy but we don't see the need for therapy as a system.

Re: not a split...

[ex-senza6.livejournal.com]

I think there's a lot of ways to get new people in a system other than the classic "trauma split" idea. We've got people who split for... no real reason at all, as far as we can tell. And people who were sort of created here, but aren't a direct split from anyone else in the system. Our Cerys just more or less seemed to pop into existence from nowhere, for example.

Some systems deliberately create people, to do a certain job or because they need or want someone new around. (There was a discussion in this community a few weeks back about the ethics of this.) Some experience "finding" new members who've been hiding for a long time or couldn't/didn't want to make contact. Some have inner/other worlds in which existing system members may form relationships and have children of their own, thus adding the children to the system's population. Some like selenesb above have "walk-ins", whose experience is that they've just suddenly arrived in the body, but have their own, separate memories of a previous life, often in another world/universe.

Good luck with NaNo, by the way. :) We're doing it too (we're "starfish" on the forums) though we're about 10,000 words behind at the moment.

characters can be every bit as surprising as alters themselves, and sometimes I wonder if writers aren't actually some kind of bizarre multiple-personality themselves!

*grins* Ever heard of soulbonding (http://livejournal.com/community/soulbonding/info)? I think a lot of writers experience something like that with their characters, and it's not always wildly different from multiplicity, in my opinion...

[riagoose.livejournal.com]

I am still on the verge of knowing all of the beings within. They have been here since I was small...an undeniable part of me...existing when I couldn't bear to...growing into flowers of creativity and strength. I have stuffed them down for a long time now until they have become oppressed and silent because a therapist was convinced that it was some sort of 'psychosis'. Now I have welcomed them back...stopped ignoring their ideas, lending this body to their artistic whims while remaining myself in a semi clear haze. I think if healing means agreeing and getting along, I'm not sure that can happen all the time for me, but I do know that the therapist I saw was not a big asset or help to me...

[doltaghey.livejournal.com]

Hi :) First as a multiple *and* a writer, I certainly understand what you mean about the sometimes blurred line between the two. (For more investigation into that topic you might want to look into the subject of "Soulbonding").

As to your question regarding healing... I'll echo what others have already said about healing not necessarily being directly connected with integrating or otherwise 'getting rid of' one's alters. As a collective, our aim is and always has been to function co-operatively as a team. We are, to put it simply, a bunch of people living together in the same house, and we function in a similar way to a tenant's co-operative or something of that nature.

Sometimes there are side-issues; eg depression or the fallout from an abusive background that may need therapy to deal with, but not every multiple needs therapy and it's not always caused by an abusive past, so it's not inevitable that there will be issues like that. Sometimes the only healing needed isn;t so much healing as just learning to communicate and co-operate effectively as a team.

Anyway if you want to contact us check out our website (http://www.positivelyplural.org) or email us on nosselinfea"at"yahoo.co.uk

[khlara.livejournal.com]

I was "healed" and by that I mean integrated without knowing and without being told. It. Was. Hell. I basically had to deal with 15 tics all at once and could never really control myself. So I basically forced myself to re establish communication. If I hadn't, Avalon knows what would have happened.
As far as "splitting" or whatever. We know we were multiple since birth because we remember having communication at the age of 3 and we grew up in a healthy, nuculear family household. We don't have time lapses though all that much. Everything goes into a memory box, and when we do have time lapses it's because something extremely boring is happening that we don't feel we need to remember. But the memory box is accessible by all within the Gang.
And as far as triggers, make sure you don't confuse your readers with your character having post-traumatic stress disorder. We suffer huge flashbacks that literally paralyze us for minutes if not hours at a time and nothing triggers them at all. One happened while we were driving along the freeway minding our own business. We have memory flooding I guess, but with proper dams.
Sorry, if I've rambled. I tend to do that. ^_^

[echthros.livejournal.com]

Never seen a therapist, not interested in integrating, but part of a fuctional and communicative non-trauma-based system. A couple of people have triggers, ie, things that'll pull them front, but not all of them are necessarily bad or traumatic (actually, the majority of them are kinky.)

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

Not a "split" here either. A LOT of multiple people aren't "splits". The notion that multiplicity is always caused by parental abuse is right up there with the notion that homosexuality is always caused by parental neurosis, or autism is always caused by parental rejection. It's possible that multiplicity isn't really caused by 'trauma' at all - that those who are multiple and were abused would have turned out just as multiple if they hadn't been.

Yeah, we suffered some very major trauma and abuse because of being multiple - not that those inflicting the abuse had any clue that that was the case, of course. For over 40 years, the fact that there are three of us has been THE major secret of our lives; until this year, only a handful of people have ever known, and none of them have been therapists.

Ha, is therapy necessary to healing? Telling a "mental-health professional" that one shares one's body with others is just about like telling a 14th-century priest the same thing. There's good reason why multiplicity is considered so "rare" by psychiatrists: no one in their right mind would ADMIT being multiple to those guys.

I love my two 'brothers' dearly, and they love me. We are a family; we share with and help one another however we can. What would be NICE would be if there was a way for each of us to have our own bodies, but that's not going to happen. We certainly wouldn't ever wish to be parted from each other, though.

I'm a writer too, and have a long fantasy-saga based on the three of us, in which it does happen (because in fantasy stories, one can use magick.) That's where my user-name comes from, in fact, and also my 'brother' duathir's. He doesn't actually care much for the saga - for one thing, he's not into fantasy, and he doesn't really like the character Duathir who's based on him, but mostly he just finds it sad and frustrating that these fictional characters have what we want (especially him) and can never have.

Sure, I'll friend you, but, fair warning, I'm not "out" about multiplicity on my Lj, because a bunch of people on my Friends List are casual acquaintances in realtime who don't need to know. My 'brother' says he'll think about it. Again, fair warning, to many people "integration" is just a euphemism for murder, as in "I was having a lot of problems with the other members of my household, but then I 'integrated' them, with some fava beans and a nice Chianti". Suggesting it as a universal cure for the "disorder" of multiplicity is like suggesting abortion as a cure for the "disorder" of pregnancy: a lot of people like being pregnant, and of those who don't, not all believe it's right to kill another person living in the same body.

I suggest you read A Layman's Guide To Multiplicity (http://www.karitas.net/blackbirds/layman/whatis.html), which de-bunks a lot of myths and stereotypes, and will probably answer a number of your questions.

Good luck with the story!

[velyrhorde.livejournal.com]

Thanks ... will go check that out!

[shadowechoes.livejournal.com]

"It's possible that multiplicity isn't really caused by 'trauma' at all - that those who are multiple and were abused would have turned out just as multiple if they hadn't been."

We feel the same way - that We were probably already multiple before the abuse happened, or at least that We already had the predisposition or something like that. There are some in Our system who We know were split during trauma, but there are many others who We know didn't come from trauma at all.

"Yeah, we suffered some very major trauma and abuse because of being multiple"

Ditto to this as well. I think in some ways, before We were fully functional that is, it made Us vulnerable.

Relating back to the question about healing in the original post though, none of Us are interested in "healing" Our multiplicity - integration is NOT an option, it would be like death. We are in therapy, or at least Ash (one of the main frontrunners) is, but it isn't directly related to being multiple. She's in therapy for depression/PTSD/etc and wants healing for those issues, not that there are many of Us in one body since there's nothing wrong with that. And the therapist knows We are multiple and that We won't integrate.

[whisperedones.livejournal.com]

I'm a writer, and a multiple. Hmm.

The only reason that Ruby (the main fronter) goes to therapy is to deal with her depression and self-injury problems. Multiplicity has never been a reason for her to go to therapy. I don't participate in therapy, because I'm not depressed, nor do I feel the need to go.

Umm... therapy is not necessary all the time. It depends on the nature of the multiplicity, I suppose. We are a trauma-origin multiple (or so We think, We can never clearly say that We weren't just naturally Us since We dealt with sexual abuse so early in life.) Therapy can be helpful for those, but again, as I say, most of Us don't go to therapy for Multiplicity reasons.

If by healing you mean integration, I personally believe integration can only be achieved by the system themselves, not by therapy. We've had a few members integrate, Storm and Rose, Tanston and Tabby. (They were originally twins, and merged into single individuals, Storm Rose, aka Rosie and Tanston, and none of Us have a clue as to why they did it.)

I don't think We're crazy. We don't miss time, because We are co-conscious, so it's not like that. Do indeed check out the links that others have provided.

This seems very disconnected. I blame the phonecall that interrupted me in the middle of typing this :)

-Fihel

Glad I found this community!

[velyrhorde.livejournal.com]

I thought I'd done a good bit of research before I wandered in here! You guys are great - thanks so much, and this is only the first day here! I'm going to have to completely re-do some of my ideas about Jack in order to make him believable, but the things you have all told me make SOOO much more sense than all that stuff I got off the psychology webpages.

*heads off to write more*

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

We are a Multiple system with 90 people (at current count) within. Though we know there is another village and a castle which we have recently discovered and have not counted those living in them as of yet.

We realize what you mean by "healing" in the sense that a non-Multiple may believe that having many others living in one body may be unnatural. We are a family, like any other family. We live and love and we grow and we have children, just like anyone.

We do not experience missing time, for we are able to access information and/or memories of each other quite easily. Such as the children maybe be young, but have an adult's knowledge if they so wish.

In our case, we never knew until we got older that others were not like us. We thought this was the "norm". But unfortunately, it can be dangerous to reveal that we are Multiple; being diagnosed with wrong illnesses by those who do not believe or what-not.

We go to therapy, but only for the body's seasonal depression and anxiety. It seems like sometimes to us, that the body has "traits" or a "mind" of it's own that is separate from the rest of us. But that's another story. :)

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Have a look at
http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/faq.shtml
http://www.dreamshore.net/amorpha/
http://www.bentspoons.com/Shaytar/

"Is therapy absolutely necessary to heal, or do some multiples begin to merge/communicate/heal themselves spontaneously? ... 'healed' -- I guess I meant 'able to function without totally freaking out at every little trigger'...

I am extremely sorry that you have garnered this impression of multiplicity from a relatively few unfortunates. I know some other online communities seem totally dedicated to the proposition that one is not multiple unless one is constantly triggered by everything, and in constant need of attention, stuffies, lollies et al. Memory triggers, good or bad, happen to everyone, and were formerly associated with multiplicity partly through a mistaken connection with PTSD. (Some people in multiple systems do have PTSD -- our Jay has it -- but PTSD is not a constant in all cases of multiplicity.)

Many multiples live healthy lives in the everyday world by cooperating and communicating with one another. And they may accomplish this all without therapy. This can be true whether the multiple in question believe that they were simply born that way (as we were), invited outside guests in to share the body (as Shaytar), or split off parts of an original person into many (the experience of some people on this community).

The purpose of therapy for multiples is to force current standards of behavioral norms on a group of people living in a situation that medical "science" refuses to understand.

The premise established by doctors from Morton Prince to Frank Putnam (singlets all, with no experience of what it is like to be plural) was that multiplicity was intrinsically pathological. The assumption that a single personality is the norm was, as elenbarathi has suggested, probably based in religious ideas about the soul and possession.

Today, with the mental health industry busily retrenching itself after the excesses, scandals and lawsuits of the 1980s and 90s, the official word from on high is that multiplicity does not exist -- only deluded, unhappy people who believe themselves to be multiple. More recent and disturbing are the reports from people -- particularly young adults -- who present for therapy declaring that they are multiple or suspect themselves to be so, and are diagnosed as schizophrenic or psychotic.

Living in a society that does not accept multiples can be very distressing and cause more problems for a group in terms of having to hide what they are. No cultural permission for non-pathological multiplicity exists in this society -- that is, it's not talked about, or depicted in books, films or television (with the exception of revolting stereotypes). Children who are multiple are given no positive images on which to model themselves. The situation is roughly analogous to that of gays pre-Stonewall. We are an invisible minority.

"AKA - will Jack (character name) realize that he is a multiple, or will he almost always think he's crazy or weird because of missing time, etc?"

Why not have Jack live in a cooperative situation and think of the people in his group as family or friends?

Feel free to email us (ksol1460 at listen . to) -- and you are also welcome to friend us, but our online journal is largely unconcerned with multiplicity itself because this is how we live. Several of us post in it, so you can see the variety of our interests and experiences. We rant about politics and that.

[chezames.livejournal.com]

We are a system of 10. One person in our system is a split of one of the "original hosts," that is they were in the body at birth. The rest of us have become part of the system of the years.

We have never lost track of time. We are a functional multiple system, meaning we all function co-consciously. Your character sounds like someone with DID, not a functional multiple. so we might not be much help :)

[emploding.livejournal.com]

Are you doing NaNo?
I found out about 15k in that a passer-by was multiple and shes ended up being a semi-MC lol
she thought she was crazy because she was missing huge chunks of time, but then a lot of the time she didnt actually know that she lost time.

although it is a lot easier for me to write with a multiple character, because i am multiple, but i am semi-functional/co-conscious whereas she is not.

anyways, that was pointless. good luck lol

[kiya]

I see a bunch of other people have pointed out that the clinical model of multiplicity isn't the only one that's out there, so I don't need to. ;)


My system has always been co-conscious. In fact, I had names for all of my aspects but one for ten years before I realised that some form of multiplicity would be a good model for my internal structure. (I am renowned for my capacities of observation.)

I also know a few people who can go either way on multiplicity; they considered themselves multiple or strongly aspected at points in their lives when that was an effective mechanism for dealing with their current situations, and re-integrated spontaneously as soon as that was no longer true. I suspect something of this sort of being pretty common, overall.

[saturniakitty.livejournal.com]

I'm a natural multiple, we've been plural since birth, though we didn't actually come to realize and accept this until high school. We've never spoken to a therapist about anything remotely related to multiplicity, and we get on just fine ^_^ Although I can't communicate with everyone, it doesn't cause problems.

[saturniakitty.livejournal.com]

When I saw we've been plural since birth, I mean that there's always been at least two of us. Some people have showed up more recently.

[idianshire.livejournal.com]

I am one of those trauma based multiples (oh for shame), as in we wouldn'tbe here if it wasn't for the trauma. Most of us however aren't split off a host or another person. How it all happened, well I don't know, and don't really care anymore, we have our theories but basically, it is what it is.

As for can we heal without therapy? Well my opinion yeah, but that is healing from the trauma, from the triggers, from the mind fucking of years of crap. Heal from multiplicity, well first that implies multiplicity is something that needs to be healed from. To become functional, whatever that means, well for us that happened without a therapists help, and for us our therapist kept us from becoming functional for a long time, until we dumped her arse. Basically the problem was she wanted us to fit into the tight little medical model of multiplicity and it took us a damn long time to realise that wasn't going to work nor should it. In sayign that though for us therapy (with a good therapist) has been an extremely helpful tool.

I don't believe healing (however you define it) happens automatically, I personally think it takes a lot of time and effort. Supposedly there are multiples out there in the world that didn't have screwed up functioning to fix, and there's probably a lot on this site. But for me and for those multiples i know, it was screwed up stuff that they had to fix/heal. It isn't about integration, for us it wasn't even about co consciousness, we don't want that, we couldn't handle it. I think for us and for a lot of other multiples its about self acceptance, acceptance of their community, and the ability to work together. For me that takes consciuos effort to acheive.

Shire

[iamshadow.livejournal.com]

I am one of those trauma based multiples (oh for shame)

I don't think anyone was saying that trauma based multiples had anything to be ashamed of. There's a difference in initial origin, sure, but it doesn't make you any less *valid* in your existence.

[whispersong.livejournal.com]

i do not know what i can add to this. i suppose all i can say is we suspect we are trauma based in some fashion but do not know how.

i can tell you we lost time; had literal internal wars between my people/species & humans inside; have had to fight hard to be who we are today; integrated well over 300+ people around 1998 thinking it was (at the time) the only way to solve some difficulties we had been having...a sad fact that our core/host/whatever regrets deeply.

{J}tatiana

[mysticeden.livejournal.com]

I found out I was a multiple by myself when i was 18. I tried therapy for other things and it never worked. when I finally said I had mutiple personalities the frist therapist wanted me to switch right on command before her eyes so she could see it. I felt like a freak in a circus or soemthing. then she gave me to someone else who seemed to understand but got confused on the integration thing. AKA we don't want to be integrated. besides that when I (core personality) lost my memory she treated me like shit. her words were "Get ouf of here and don't come back untill you can tell me what happened!(as in remember)". This was after I was asking her for help because I had no idea what was going on... lost memory and all...So we delt with ourselves by our selves with help from another system. no therapist for me. hope that helps some.

[iamshadow.livejournal.com]

Jeez...what a bitch.

Short term memory loss happens to lots of people, not just multiples. PTSD, people with dissociative fugues and brain trauma victims, just to name a few. She should have been way more sensitive to your needs.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

And people who are sleep-deprived (which is to say, nearly everyone in this rat race civilization), and people who had a couple of beers too many, and people who smoked some weed, and on and on. It's normal.

Late entry to this subject

[iamshadow.livejournal.com]

I'm a writer, and I identify as median. I haven't really met a system like me, in that I have people turn up for a while, then leave and I'm singlet again for a while. And they don't tend to be the same people. They're different each time.

Some of these people have just appeared unbidden (walk-ins), and some have been 'generated' when I write, and have taken on a life and personality of their own (soulbonds).

These soulbonds, during the course of writing, aren't as in control as me of the body, etc, but they develop to the point that I can discuss and argue out points with them about storyline, I have to cede to them sometimes choices about what we do during the day or they complain, and they start making demands for their own time out front, their own preferences in food, music etc. I think I have always had people 'appear' like this, as I remember childhood imaginary playmates who took on lives of their own for a while.

Though all this sounds a bit like me playing different roles, there is a seperateness with this, beyond roleplaying. The people have their own personalities, their own voice, their own needs/wants. Why I seem to lose them, why they and my walkins seem to 'fade' after some months I don't know. Communication, 'sensing' them near just becomes fainter, more intermittent, until I am alone again.