Help me understand this a little better

[johannafaust.livejournal.com]

I've been watching this community for a while now. I'm very interested in alternative psychology and 'healthy' multiplicity is a fascinating concept.

I don't have anything against anyone's personal lifestyle choices, but I do have a question or two.

Do any of you ever feel deprived because of your multiplicity? After all, sharing a body means that none of you will be able to live your full lifespans; the more people who front, the less time each individual has to be alive. That would really scare me.

Also, are any of you worried at all that your alters might be demons possessing you? I know some people think that its all a mental identity thing, but other people say they have actual multiple spirits in them.

Comments

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

Regarding your first question:

You're assuming that one is only living when one is fronting. But many of us have complex lives within ourselves - we can interact and love and fight and live regardless of being the one "driving," so to speak. And we can share our simultaneous experiences, and there can even be a different understanding/experience of time - so the limitations of interacting with the "real world" through fronting do not necessarily limit the inner life in the same way.

Regarding your second question: I believe that we can have multiple spirits within us, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we are being possessed by demons. Residing does not automatically equal the force and agression denotated by the assumption of possession. I am not certain if that is what you meant, by the way you phrased your question.

~ Luke et al

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

Excuse me. I meant to say, "Having residing spirits does not automatically equal the force.... etc, etc."

[linnai.livejournal.com]

I guess one could look at it from any angle that they preferred. They are being cheated out of their lengthy and prosperous lives by the others with which they share a body and it's a tragic thing.

On the other hand, I feel that my physical, biological parents cheated me out of my formative years and why shouldn't I enjoy the ability to sit back, relax and not have to fret about my life falling to pieces because I am not participating in it at this moment?

Admittedly, partial control isn't enough even for some in our group and they would much prefer, either bitterly or wistfully, to have a life that they had made the choices in. We can't change that, so we manage the best we're able.

Also, we've been told on multiple occasions that we are possessed by demons and should be seen by a priest. It's preposterous, not only because the body has been baptized and according to the religion it was baptized under, demons cannot exist where Christ has entered, but also because we don't believe in that. We have multi-cultural awareness, of course, and we support the beliefs of quite a few religions internally...

But whatever the case, we are not demons. We're people.

Colour, of Storm Systems

[liedownlovely.livejournal.com]

Do any of you ever feel deprived because of your multiplicity?

The only way we feel deprived is that society makes us hide who we are sometimes. Otherwise, I personally think that singletons (non-multiples) are the ones deprived......I'm never alone, I have advice givers on hand all the time and best of all I have a constant stream of amusing dialogue running by me!

the more people who front, the less time each individual has to be alive. That would really scare me.

Our system doesn't work like that. We have inner worlds, sometimes called soulscapes, where we stay. We interact there, and we can bring things from this world, Earth, into the soulscape by studying them.

Say I wanted to bring an apple to the soulscape. I take front, take an apple, and study it. Taste it, smell it, feel it, and look at it. Now that I know what an apple is like, when I'm not using the body, I can eat one inside if I want to. I get the same pleasure from doing things in our inner world as I do from using the body. To me its no different. :)

Each system works differently. Maybe some of them lose time when they're not at front.

Also, are any of you worried at all that your alters might be demons possessing you?

Nope. I'm not human, I'm an alien, but I'm not harmful at all! Some 'alters' (which isn't a term most people like, by the way - try 'people' or 'others' or 'headmates'. Alter is kind of offensive!) identify as demons but that doesn't mean they're evil.

I know some people think that its all a mental identity thing, but other people say they have actual multiple spirits in them.

We think we all have souls. Just because we're 6 people stuck in one body doesn't mean we have no hearts or minds or dreams. Each system is different but we all believe ourselves to be individuals, even if we split from the main fronter long ago.

Its like children! They're half their mom and half their dad but they're still unique and different from their parents too.

Hope that helps you.

-Kevin

[liedownlovely.livejournal.com]

P.S. I see you're a member of roch_ny. We're from Rochester.....if your around this area that's cool!

-Kevin

[tahaton.livejournal.com]

Deprived, nope. Don't you feel deprived? After all, being alone in your head means you'll never be able to experience the same kind of mental intimacy many multiple systems can, Or be able to give up this world altogether in favour of one inside or even elsewhere! These ideas scare me :)

I don't feel deprived at all. I get to switch off or go inside if life is difficult for me, come out when I'm wanted or needed. I also get a wonderful feeling of company. I wouldn't trade it for the world. Think of how much time you spend bored or in traffic jams or even just sleeping! Being multiple isn't so bad by comparison.


We think of ourselves as spirits. I don't worry that they're demons because they've never done anything to cause me to doubt they're anything but normal people. Occasional dumb mistakes do not a demon make :) I've had so many come and go now that I feel comfortable straight away, I trust them until proven wrong.

[crystalseraph.livejournal.com]

On the contrary, I feel enriched and quite privilaged to be multiple. All my life, before we got in contact, I have been driven to create things inspired by my muses, and to find that they are actually whole inviduals has been remarkable. I am a bit of an odd case, as me and the other guy interested in being in the body-world can share simultaneously, so we don't 'lose time' and our productivity is quite high. I can draw and paint while he browses car forums with the body's left hand. Its great, and amazing to participate in.

Tahl is a firey devil, in the best sort of way ;D. I love him, and the affection is returned. We are both 'spiritual atheists' in that we find profound experience in what we see around us and in the new things we learn about our existance and the Earth every day. So no. Multiple spirits is a tricky topic, and highly subjective as an experience. Personally, I feel that there are abilities and capacities of the mind that we do not understand that allow for plurality without the need for spirits. How multiplicity works - and how single minds work - is not very well understood by anyone.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Seconding everything about not feeling deprived at all. And in my particular system, being multiple is how we cope. If I had to deal with all the stresses and problems that I have utterly alone, I'm not sure what I'd do. Having the others there to lean on is how I make it through.

(And no, I believe there is such a thing as a demon, but I don't think a relationship with a real demon could ever possibly be benign in any way, so I'm quite sure my others are not demons.)

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

That kind of depends on what culture or religion's definition of 'demon' you're using, but. I'm not saying that any of your people are, don't worry. ;) Just that while the concept of 'demon' translates across a lot of cultures, it's not identical in every one. For instance, there are some religions in which demons are considered to be, not necessarily absolutely evil, but something that just has to be kept within a proper context, like natural forms of destruction.

~Y.

[angel530.livejournal.com]

Do any of you ever feel deprived because of your multiplicity?

Deprived probably isn't the word but I have been frustrated a few times because we've let her make the choices regarding uni etc and that has bothered me.

Saying that though I don't really know any other way and I get my time now. Although were going back to uni in September it's to do a course we'll both enjoy.

Also there are others here who don't want to front at all, if/when they do it's only for a couple of hours at a time and even thats rare.

Having said that I enjoy the company, I enjoy being able to retreat from the world If I need a break and I enjoy knowing that there are, and always will be others there (we have no intention of integrating) and that (most of the time!) they're people I can rely on. I dont get that with people outside.

Overall I'd say the positives far outweigh the negatives.


Also, are any of you worried at all that your alters might be demons possessing you? I know some people think that its all a mental identity thing, but other people say they have actual multiple spirits in them.

I have to be honest and say that this question really annoyed me. We are separate individuals, its not just a mental identity thing, at least not for us. But to ask if 'your alters might be demons possessing you' is to assume that there is one of us to be possessed! We're a natural multiple and therefore weve always been here (although trauma may have caused more splits, were not 100% sure).

So which one of us would be being possessed if it was possession? Anyway, the simple answer is no.

[silence-rising.livejournal.com]

oops sorry, that was from me

[shandra.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I have felt frustrated or annoyed at having to share, yes - but that's a bit different from feeling deprived. As others have noted there are really cool aspects to being & living multiple. I'm also glad not to have died at 21 or whatever. There are lots of ways for a life to be truncated in some way. :)

And no, I don't really worry about demon possession, even theoretically (I'm not sure I believe in demons).

[shandra.livejournal.com]

Whoops sorry, my son (who can't read, beng 18 mos) hit return. :) I have read accounts of demon oppression and possession and neither remotely sounded anything like my experience of multiplicity. Everyone in our system (we don't have walk-ins) feels - organically right; nothing alien. Even when people have had hard times or fought within the system it has felt more like family arguing than anything outside of ourself. Also we do have a number of similarities as well as differences. So that's why. :)

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

For our group, each individual continues to life whether or not they are using the body. We have another realm where everyone lives when they are not using the body. It is similar to how it is here in the earth realm. For instance, while you sleep you are not using your body (consciously) but that doesn't mean you stop living while you sleep. (Not exactly the same thing, but the only example I could think of.)

Or how about this one: You and your family are all sitting in the living room watching a movie. A sibling decides to go to the store and leave the living room. Does that person stop living just because they are no longer in the room?

I know it's a big leap of faith to assume that what our group relates about our existance is true. It doesn't have to be true to anyone else, but ourselves if need be. If it's a delusion, then it's a complex and comforting delusion for us. :) This is our lifestyle. We know we are real. Most of us know who we are and have varied histories that are different than the body's history. We all feel and breathe and relate and love.

The only times we feel uncomfortable being a group is when we are challenged for how we live. The automatic assumptions made are usually very wrong. We're not all split from one person. We do not have one single original person this body belongs to. We are not each of us a single job or emotion. We have no desire to become a single person and it would be impossible for us to do so. We love who we are. We love how we live. We are a family. It isn't without it's work and frustrations, but every family has these growing pains and life lessons.

There is no "possession" in our case because there is no one person this body belongs to. A possession brings images of unwanted visitors who are harmful to an individual. We share this body. The body belongs to each of us.

Jenilee, Amalah & Kasia (mostly)

[mylittlebox.livejournal.com]

Auroch often feels deprived of the life he wants. He's so strong, so attractive, so powerful, and he's stuck in the body of a weak, sickly female. He wants his body back, but being inside mine is all he has.

We've both worried about possession before. There was one called The Beast who seemed to be a demon looking for salvation. It was wild, and terrible, and often harmed us.

[netdancer.livejournal.com]

No one in Netdancer Collective feels deprived. (Of the people I could immediately contact to ask.) We’ve got a very large Inner World. People who aren’t Fronting have lives of their own out there. Some of us never Front at all, preferring to just stay inside and live.

Teamwork is a very high priority here. There are about twenty of us who rotate off on Fronting, and we tag-team each other as needed…I get tired, and I hand off to Ken. The Protectors do that too, rotating who’s on duty.

There are demons here, and angelic beings, and a unicorn who says he’s ‘an expression of the One Song for people who would be unwilling to listen to any others’. (Which I read as; Angel, for pagans.)

We have a large number of walk-ins from other places, most notable of which is the Empire. That’s in a parallel time/dimension.

If anyone misbehaved, the Protectors would put a stop to it. Or Valentine or Aisling would. We’re a loose democracy, but there are established laws that can’t be violated. (For example: No harming the body deliberately.) The Protectors will step on someone who breaks the rules.

[rozanya.livejournal.com]

I know Roz sometimes gets frustrated because we front so much and she feels she's not really part of her own life.
We continue to live our own lives inside - we have a little community thing because we're such a big system. We've even got a team of medics that can help out if someone gets ill inside.

I wouldn't say Roz saw us as demons, but there are a couple of things we're not sure about. One we think is a representation of Roz's subconscious, called the Deja Vu because if you're affected by it, it drags up old (usually painful) memories. The other seems to be all of her bottled up anger, and anyone affected usually becomes quite violent. They're probably more like inner demons.

[cirape.livejournal.com]

Do any of you ever feel deprived because of your multiplicity?

In a way. But its more or less the same way a transsexual would feel before any sex change operations they underwent. Since I'm the main fronter I don't feel deprived of anything else.
Dizzy does not mind watching and copiloting, and the others are not up all that often. Troy seems to prefer to watch, though I'm certain Micha would insist upon being deprived due to his lack of fronting were he around much.

Also, are any of you worried at all that your alters might be demons possessing you?

Heh. I am indeed possessing my host (if you wish buy into my belief that I am doing so), but I am not really a 'demon.' I would not be surprised if others though of me as such, however.
None of the rest of us seem to fit as demons, even those who came from elsewhere.

[teh-kerry.livejournal.com]

We're a pretty organised group - no-one looses time at all, there aren't any really destructive people and we make decisions together. If anyone accused us of being 'demons' (especially our resident angel or vampire... or little kids, come to that), we wouldn't see any basis in fact for it.

- Steve

[chorus-of-chaos.livejournal.com]

Wow, I have to say I am majorly impressed by how everyone in this group has responded so politely and calmly on this post. (not saying that there was anything wrong with the question, don't take it that way.)

I've been in other forums and such where people have made the "demon" inquiry and all hell broke loose...understandably for many systes, I knew a few who had been raised in ultra christian households and had been put through "exorcism treatments" before, dear gods, the abuse involved in that is horrifying...it's really more a matter of using brainwashing and torture tactics to make the system reject itself and claim singularity.....just thought I'd bring it up because a) as I said, I'm really impressed with the politeness of this comms reactions and b) might be useful for the OP to know that that particular question can get some heated angry responses and occasionally trigger others into self harming behavior (which is not not the posters responsibility, it's that systems choice...just a warning that the question can be upsetting for some folks.)

You guys rock.

as for my .02 cents worth, when we are doing well we time share quite a bit, everyone gets thier own bit of time and personal interests (sara gets to play with her frog toys and watch anime....hell, we've all gotten hooked on anime....Rhiannon crochets, willow does her ritual/religious stuff, etc..J'Endra is about the only one who looses out because we just don't have the mmoney for her to collect blades like she'd like to, but she understands and recognizes that...so we all bail and giver her extra scary movie time instead :)

When the system is stressed we tend to switch rapidly and there is little co conciousness, but we do make an effort through a group notebook to keep everyone in touch with what's beein going on whenever soeone was fronting.

I echo the comments made of not feeling like anyone's life is shortened or whatever, because they are really always there inside, there are many who have no desire to front or be out...they ight occasionally "ghost" (watch fro within while someone else is fronting, kind of like watching television) but all in all are pretty content.

As for the demon issue. There are many people who have members in thier systes that are not human. I've met those who have werewolves, vampires, fae, demons, angels, aliens, birds, fish, merpeople....the list is varied and fascinating. J'Endra has laid claim to being a demon but she is so much a part of us that we know she is a fracture from the original source, because her role is as a protector she opted to not be human as she formulated, so she claimed something fierce and became a demon. We also have a watersprite, and no one is real sure about the one that all we know is called Crone.

I have been told after hearing about my dreams that I astral travel, and I've had the experience of something NOT US trying to climb on and ride through from the astral plane to this one, trying to possess, it was our multiplicity and that drove it away. I think multiples are actually not able to be possessed.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

1) No, none of us feel deprived. Many of us believe that our world is going to endure into infinity. Hence, we do not necessarily subscribe to the view that our body's death means our death.

2) No, no, and Hell No (no pun intended). We have two supposed "demons", Non-Acceptance and Kchalinthe. Our system is unconcerned about possession. Non-Acceptance has been counseling the Christians of the system about spiritual matters. Kchalinthe is in direct opposition to the goals of Fundamentalism. He says that in the end there are no answers to the questions that plague the singletons. He believes in living life to the fullest. No, we are not possessed, not in the Biblical sense.

[chorus-of-chaos.livejournal.com]

Just a little something further regarding the multiplicity and "losing out" thing....maybe this will give you soe concept of how it kind of goes. **I**, the prime personaliy, suffer badly from insomnia. Weeks will go by that the body does not sleep until I hit a point where I will sleep off and on for a whole day trying to catch up. This happened the other day, and something interesting that I had never applied to the multiplicity but has happened many times occured, and I finally put it together.

I had a very vvivd strange dream while sleeping. I woke up at some point of it and was dissapointed because it was an interesting dream. I went to the bathroom and took meds and laid down again and fell back to sleep only to find myself in the SAME DREAM, just further one. It was like I had walked out of the room and missed part of a movie and had walked back in and was picking it up further in the story line. I phased in and out of this ongoing dream three times in the process of three naps.

What was actually happening was someone else in the system was DEEPLY asleep and Heavily running the subconcious, so when I went under I got pulled into thier dream "ghosting" thier dream uch as we often do to one another while awake. ("Ghosting" is my term for when someone is fronting, but others in the system are sort of looking over thier shouolder and watching the outside world, just not participating.)

Maybe that wil give you a little insight as to how it's a shared life experience, as opposed to being on/off like a light switch.

I hope maybe we've (as in the comunity we've) been able to give you the insight you were seeking...and I just like to say for one that I appreciate people who rather than just automatically believing the tripe they hear instead looking into it themselves and finding out how things really are. Knowledge is power, fear is weakness. By asking and learning you make yourself stronger, and it makes the world better for everybody. Thank you.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I have found what you say about dreams to be true for me. While I've been anchored to the body front for the past 3 months, I have remembered many dreams very vividly the next morning. There are times when I'll write a dream entry with up to 5 dreams per night. In some dreams I remember them as though I'm only a viewer of the dream and can't take part in it. In other dreams I am either on the dreamer's shoulder or witnessing it behind their own eyes. Several times a few others in the group have told me that it was their dream that I saw and will help me fill in any missing blanks. The dreams are always very vivid and play out like a story. There are a few dreams that I think are dreams but later I find out it was an event or activity someone was doing in our realm. Others in our group have also been able to have this good dream recall over the past few years. Usually it's with one who has been fronting consistently for at least a month (or co-fronting). Since I haven't been able to leave the front for three months the dreams I've been used to the dreams and actually enjoy them when I remember them the next morning.

Here is our dream journal (http://www.dreamjournal.net/index.cfm?do=getjournal&username=kasiya). It's not on LiveJournal.

-Butterfly (Amalah typing)

[pengke.livejournal.com]

If this is demonic possession, we're some damned lame-ass demons.

[rabbitsystem.livejournal.com]

Seconded! Hmm, impressive demon I would make. Singing and cookery, very evil and dangerous.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

Things have gotten a little different recently, but usually I live my own life, so I don't really lose anything out of working this way. Think it would be pretty weird if people thought I was a demon too.

[lion-azure.livejournal.com]

As for feeling deprived: no. We don't actually need to use this body to live our lives - we have a soulscape, which is where we live, laugh and love :). Using the body is just the icing on the cake. As for the host, she doesn't mind sharing her body with us. It's not really as if every minute, every breath were unbelievably precious or interesting. Most of life is just routine, and if there's nothing to do that really catches her interest, why not let others have fun?

Moving on to the possession theory - it might be that we're possessing her (depending on how you view the subject of spirits, souls and such), but we're not demons. Though she has called me a little Mephistopheles on occasion ;).

- Malak

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

Yes. I'm a demon. I frequently make the body speak in tongues, and occasionally when I pass churches the arm on that side bursts into flames, which is really quite inconvenient.

[aimeepatricia.livejournal.com]

Could we sell you some fire extinguishers? :)

[lamialiliane.livejournal.com]

Hey.

Demons are people too, y'know. :P

And how do you figure that when we're not fronting, we're not living? That's not true at all. I'm just as alive when I'm not fronting as I am when I am fronting.

[aimeepatricia.livejournal.com]

Seeing as how I never front... Does this mean I'm dead? :)

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your questions -- honest questions deserve honest answers, as chorus_of_chaos has said; it is how one learns.

As others have said, it need not be assumed that we are only alive when using the body. We have our own world, and live there mostly. This goes for most systems, not merely those who have one or more subjective worlds -- you'll find nearly all of them have some residence away from the front. Thank you for this question -- it'll be going into our FAQ (http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/faq.shtml).

As for demonic possession: There has been entirely too much bilge written about this notion. While we certainly are aware of persons in other systems who are demons, or describe themselves as such, the concept of "possession" in the sense to which you refer (the general concept as presented in Western culture) is needlessly theatrical, bringing to mind horror-film images rather than any concept of reality, and inappropriate in most rational discussions of multiplicity.

Some cultures do believe in benign possession, in which gods and spirits enter the bodies of devotees to give advice and help to all the people. Healing ceremonies in many world cultures involve this sort of relationship with spirits. So even if some groups do experience it as possession of the body by an outside entity, that need not imply pea soup. Again, thank you.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Seriously, re the "what if you accidentally let something in" stuff: The members of this system who believe that kind of possession is possible (I'm pretty agnostic on the issue, though I respect the beliefs of those who do) do consider it, but basically, all of us agree that the worst stuff in our life has always come from other humans. Other people have always been much more of a threat to us, even when we were told that we were leaving ourselves open to occult influences or being followed by entities. I'm much more inclined to worry about influences from other humans than about influences from spiritual beings.

[our-menagerie.livejournal.com]

Do any of you ever feel deprived because of your multiplicity?

In all honesty, yes, but i try not to feel that way or just dont think about it because really what are the options? I dont want to get rid of everyone else in here so its just the way it is. And they all feel deprived from time to time because they dont feel they can have an outside life to the extent they would like. On the other hand, we all really like each other for the most part so it would be hard to have it any other way.

[inner-clique.livejournal.com]

YES! I never get enough time using the body!!!!!! LeAnne said she never gets to play Warcraft long enough!!!!!!!!! rofl!!!!!!! I would do things all the time I don't know what I'd do with all that time but I would find something!!!!!!!!!!!! XD but it can suck not having the body the same age as me so maybe if I was here all the time I'd get sick of using it!! wrong hair color wrong eye color!!!!!! blah!!! they tell me that I'd be too hyper for the body all the time and would make it flip out!!!!!!!!! rofl!!!!!!!! I don't know about that but who knows what would happen. I wouldn't flip out. I get worried about people breaking into the apartment all the time!!!!!!!! I wasn't alway slike that but I am in the new place. o well rofl!!! I'm not like going to run into walls or anything!! rofl!!!

are the others demons posessing me? none of them go inside of me like sex or something!! rofl!!! ew!!! rofl!!!!! if there's such a thing as that then I'd be a demon because I use the body too. Can I say I'm a demon now? I am Lisa Aspyr the demon!! rofl!! not really but whatever. o well. cya!!!

*LiSa*