question for grownups and caregivers

[rainbowthespian.livejournal.com]

Do you think littles should be allowed to smoke?

My partner's system smokes all the time and I don't think it's appropriate.

Comments

[kyouketsusha.livejournal.com]

I don't think anyone should smoke, but I'm biased, so. :P

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I was going to say the exact same thing. lol

-Butterfly

[lion-azure.livejournal.com]

Nicotine's a drug. Smoking is an addiction. Like it or not, the body of a smoker is hooked on that stuff, and that doesn't change just because the mental age of the fronter changes.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's all right for children to smoke, but I also don't think it's beneficial to them to have to suffer from withdrawal symptoms. So I would say that if the body needs its fix, and the kid isn't supposed to smoke, well, get it away from the front. Have someone else take over. But every system has to decide that for themselves.

- Draco

[linnai.livejournal.com]

I have to disagree with you on that. We, as a system, have proven for weeks/months at a time that we truly aren't addicted to smoking and that we do not require the vice that we allow certain individuals to endulge in.

[lion-azure.livejournal.com]

It is a drug, and it's addictive, there's just nothing to debate about that. What sets your system apart from others is that, apparently, you/some of you have the willpower it takes to overcome the addiction.

- Draco

[rabbitsystem.livejournal.com]

Not necessarily - it's addictive but there's still a level below which you aren't hooked. If you don't smoke very much, you may not be addicted.

[pthalo]

it's addictive, but some people are less addicted to it than others, just like some people are able to drink casually without becoming alcoholics, while others can't drink at all without falling into a pattern of relying on alcohol. we quit smoking several times, always without withdrawl or any negative affects, just because we decided to. This doesn't mean our willpower was better than anyone else's, just that we weren't physically addicted to a substance that is often addictive. When we started again, it was a conscious choice, and there's no telling whether we're physically addicted currently or are just doing it because we want to, and we won't be able to find out until we want to quit again.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

Smoking isn't really good for anyone, if they're a child or not. if you asked about sex within a group, then I'd say that depends on the group-child's maturity. :)

-Butterfly

[medius-tandem.livejournal.com]

Hannah here. Never having been a fan of smoking I wouldn't allow the children to smoke and urge the host to quit as well.

[ricktboy.livejournal.com]

cubbie smokes, but it was also one of his only coping methods when he was born...so we've never tried to stop him on that front. We all smoke, so the body's addicted to it.

[linnai.livejournal.com]

To answer your question, I and a lot of the other adult or semi adult individuals in my system smoke, but it's a personal decision. If the smokers are hanging around, we smoke, if there are nonsmokers hanging around, we ask permission and if kids are around we do not smoke.

Our kids are young, they aren't ready to DECIDE whether they would want to smoke yet, so while they know WE smoke, they aren't exposed to it anymore than we can possibly help.

[qilora.livejournal.com]

i would recommend to the adults of the body, that they are ethically/morally obligated to care for the children in their charge, and that includes with regards to the kids' physical health...

singlet parents might still be able to smoke around their kids (making them sick) outside legal censure, but plural folks can't even do the desperate "can't quit yet" sorts of safeties like: smoking with windows open, smoking out on the porch, etc... none of that matters when you share a set of lungs...

i agree with you that your friends' littles are being hurt by the smoke, but i would suggest that the group as a whole be encouraged to quit..

[freakshownia.livejournal.com]

I agree with the other people who have said that none of them should be smoking =/

But I also understand that it is an addiction, and while even some singlets can stop and start whenever they like, it's certainly possible for someone to find quiting very difficult. (Though if anyone is interested in quitting I highly recommend acupuncture - it was the only thing that worked for my dad.)

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

If anyone in your house is smoking in their physical bodies, the kids are getting it whether or not they light up themselves.

[our-menagerie.livejournal.com]

We use to smoke, the body smoked from the time she was 17 until she was 32(last year), with the last 5 years being the heaviest of it. Im not going to say its right or wrong, I think everyone knows including people who smoke. What we did was tried to set an age limit at 15 and up, it didnt work. Sarah who is 7 and Erin who is 8 both smoked anyway. Most of the other littles thought it was "grossly disgusting" and wanted nothing to do with it.

I can tell you though, that our partner at that time telling them they couldnt smoke because they were littles just made them resent her(but she smoked!). Im not saying you are wrong. I guess Im just saying be careful? Also, we tried several ways to get certain people to quit smoking, mainly because *I* still wanted to smoke, it didnt work. In the end, the only reason we were able to quit was because we all did it together.

[rainbowthespian.livejournal.com]

Thank you for all the thoughtful comments. I'm a huge anti smoker who vowed to never even DATE a smoker and then went and fell in love and married one. The plan was for her to quit before we had babies and now I don't know that we ever will cause I've got enough to take care of with the system. That is another story.

The smoking is something that they do to BE BAD. They are testing the boundaries of the grownups outside the system. They want to know that if they break a rule someone cares enough to say something or do something.

I am slowly learning and adjusting to my role parenting the alters of my life partner. I'm learning how to take care of them one at a time and sometimes I treat a new one wrong because I think it's another. It's like Fred and George Weasley.

I do NOT smoke. My partner knows how I feel about the smoking and we try not to make it a "button". It's a self harm thing for her so I can't use the typical arguments for her to quit.

I don't really have a point, I think I'm just trying to become more of a part of the dialogues here in this community. Thanks for being here and letting me be here even though I'm a singlet.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

My initial response was hell no. Then I read the rest of the people here, remembered that a lot of 'Littles' aren't technically even children. And the ones that are, a lot of them seem to be pretty old (like 15 or something) or mature. So I guess you'd need to narrow it down a little, 'cause 'Littles' seems to mean a lot of things that are pretty damn different sometimes.

Then I read this, and now I'm back to hell no. Selene's son is heading into the sort of first boundary testing age, and the idea isn't that we just let him do whatever he wants, 'cause he needs to know there are limits. Then I guess as they get older, they get to what you said right there. They need to know you care enough to stop them. If you didn't, I figure that'd cause some really problems in their head. If you don't care about it, why should they?

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I have seen the word littles to mean any children within a group but our group has been personally defining the word littles to mean younger children within a group by their maturity level. Kes

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

(I guess maybe what I mean to say is, yeah they've "physically" got the right, but if you treat them like a voice in an adult body, you don't know *what* mental stuff you could be screwing with. Maybe look up books on kids around that age, how to deal with when kids test parents' boundaries, or arguements about legal smoking ages. That kinda stuff.)

[shandra.livejournal.com]

This thread's been on my mind. I guess I just want to caution you about the whole reparenting thing, bearing in mind that I don't really know anything about you or your partner.

But the thing is... (again in my opinion) yes, in-system kids deserve a lot of things, like love and the space to be themselves and play and joy and stuff.

I just don't think it's a good idea to mix those particular roles (lover/parent-disciplinarian). There are a lot of ways to show love other than "caring enough if they break a rule." They need to learn that.

It puts you in an impossible situation - you CANNOT be an equal partner with someone if you are "reparenting" them. You just can't. Yes, sure, there are different people in the system but if it's wet towels on the bathroom floor how do you figure out if you're dealing with it with your lover or as a parent? By demanding to know who in the system left them there? What about the "bystanders" who LET them leave them there? Etc. etc.

You need to be able to negotiate living stuff with them as an equal, adult-to-adult, and the adults in their system then need to work out stuff with the kids. Otherwise you become a caretaker and that may be selling your romantic/partnership relationship short.

Going from personal experience, the more powerful message to give is to their whole system: "I know you can handle this. I'm here to love you, not to police you." My husband of 12 years did that with us; we've done it with our SOs.

I think I'm expressing this badly but I just hate to see people make this mistake out of caring about kids. Of course you do. But I suggest getting out of the disciplinary role asap.

[drleanne.livejournal.com]

I think that if the kids were grown up enough to take the abuse they are grown up enough to decide if they want to smoke. I also think that since I am not in that systems shoes I have no right to pass judgement over what that system does.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

if they are old enought to take abuse means they are old enough to decide to smoke? that doesn't make sense to me. if a 6 years old child was harmed by abuse and they want to smoke when they are 7 it should be allowed because why? I don't understand that way of thinking. Kes

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

I'm no big expert, but if we're going with assuming someone's textbook, wouldn't the kid have taken the abuse because they were, you know, *there*? And then the one who had to deal with it ends up all messed up and not aging right with the body. In that kind of situation, doesn't sound to me like they got any choice.

I don't think anybody's old enough to 'take' abuse, personally. Gonna mess with anybody no matter what age they are. Got to do with how their brain deals with it, not how 'grown up' they are.

I dunno, just doesn't make sense to me to think that way.

[jsystem.livejournal.com]

None of our children smoke, but Thomas, Naomi, Heather and I (Pandora) smoke. No one else does, though Marrilyn has been known to take a drag here or there.

I've never seen either of the littles show interest in it... and I don't imagine they would, especially since Jenny seems to think it's kinda 'yucky'. The body is addicted as well as us, mentally as well.

[ex-memepr0g.livejournal.com]

I would try to keep the children away from the smoke so that they do not personally form a habit, although the harmful effects of the nicotine affect the entire body, not just the individual who is smoking and fronting at the same time. I dislike smoking generally, so I would recommend that you avoid it. -sigh- But if you must consume nicotine, I recommend that you simply have the youngest leave the front when the cigarettes are being smoked.

Our system has smoked things, but only two members have done it, and I make sure that neither of them do it too much. ;)

- Richard of the Fen System

[shandra.livejournal.com]

Well this is a bit late in terms of commenting but... personally I think it's a bad idea for partners to police their partners' system kids.

All this is my opinion:

Let them work it out; it's the only way their whole system will become responsible for /whatever/ limits they chose, or don't chose, to set. I think cuddles and things are great when it comes to loving kids in one's partner's system. But I think discipline is not appropriate in that case. Personal boundaries are ("I need things to be tidy" or whatever.) But not "you shouldn't eat junk food so I'm taking it away." It's the adults INSIDE the system's responsibility.

If you aren't bothered by the adults in your partner's system smoking, then it is really up to that system who smokes. If smoking bothers you, the rule should be the same for everyone. (Smoke outside, or whatever.)

[drleanne.livejournal.com]

Right on Shan!!!!!!!

[ques-nova.livejournal.com]

The way I see it, if the body smokes, then whoever fronts should be allowed as no one should have to deal with an addiction like that. That having been said, smoking should be done away with entirely.

[eruditeboredom.livejournal.com]

I don't have any preaching to do on either side of the issue. Yes, smoking is bad for you. Even us smokers know it's bad for us. But, it's our right to do so. How bad it is for you in particular depends on your own health and how much you smoke. We don't smoke much, 1-3 a day, and since the body's female, we're quitting as soon as we get on birth control in a month or so. We've quit plenty of times, gone for months at a time without it, and picked it up again on a whim for a few weeks, only to quit again when money got low.

We don't really see it as a mental age issue, but a body age issue. One of the main reasons you have to be 18 to buy it and use it is because while smoking does damage to whoever's doing it, it does a hell of a lot more permanent damage to a body that's still developing.

We only have 1 or 2 littles in here, and one of them is an age-slider, she's always either 6 or 16. She started sliding when we moved out of our parents' home.

We don't allow littles to front on their own outside of the home, so someone smoking but talking like a 6 year old in public isn't really an issue. Everyone's so preoccupied in here with keeping the host functional (started as mpd/did stemming from severe abuse, now a functional multiple with walk-ins as well), and there's so much to do and so many to interact with inside, that the host usually co-fronts with up to 3 others at once.

So, as far as we're concerned, if the body's fully developed, and a little wants to smoke for some reason, if the main fronters smoke and don't have a problem with it, go for it.

[tahaton.livejournal.com]

For me, I wouldn't let littles smoke. If the body needs to smoke, then it's up to the adults to take over as much as they need to and deal with it. It's their addiction. Age restrictions on these things exist for a reason, and that's that people below that age as a general rule don't really have the maturity to make an informed decision. I know those rules can be debated for weeks, but it's one of the reasons they're there.

Things are hazy in a multiple system (especially if the system already smokes), so if a system has someone who is visually 11, or age slides, but has the actual mental ability to make an informed and rational decision, it might be ok for them. I know I wouldn't let a young child in our system smoke, even if we already did. That's a decision for when they're older.

[ex-pinkmonk.livejournal.com]

Just flesh. Not important.

[pthalo]

our three year old likes to announce that she's the littlest smoker in the world.

i suppose given other systems it's not entirely true.

the bbody "needs" (well, not needs, but wants) nicotine, so whoever's out gives it to the body. some of us smoke more than others. i think some of the kids just do it because it makes them feel all grown up. *shrugs*

[shadowedkitsune.livejournal.com]

We have one little one in here, he's about 6, and he does smoke, but only becuase the rest of us do. My personal theory is that if the body is already addicted, the mental age of the one doing the smoking doesn't really matter. I think the decision on weather to allow smoking at all should be the choice of the main or core personality, if there is one, and provided that body is of legal age, the mental age probably doesn't make much of a difference. Unless as someone else was mentioning, a little might come out in public, then the combination of childish behavior/speach, and smokeing would probably be a bad thing. If I quit smoking, which I have a few times, then started up again for various reasons, then Mau (the 6 year old) would stop too. he does it mostly cause the body wants the nicotine, and the cigs happen to be there usualy, so he lights one up and enjoys feeling good. *shrugs* Really it's up to the system, but that's my two cents ^_^

-Lynn

[yellowsub723.livejournal.com]

Some of us hate smoking, others are neutral, others love it. Right now we've compromised. No more than 2 per day. And I switched to Djarum Lights because the younger ones prefer the aftertaste of cloves to the triggering scent of regular ones. We're all in the body and have lots of co-consciousness, so as long as one of the adults has a talk with the littles about the situation it works out fine.