Sexual Abuse as a Child

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

No worries, since this may upset people, I have it under a cut. If sexual abuse is something that will upset you, please don't click it. This is kind of a combo introduction and reach-out post. There, the disclaimer/warning has been duly noted, on to the post.

I've seen several people on this community now who went through abuse as children. Sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse. In our system, we all have at least one memory of sexual or physical abuse, from when the body was a child. Except for diana, who seems to have escaped the whole ordeal.

Personally, I dealt with physical and sexual abuse from the father. From about age 9 until age 11 or 12, he sexually abused this body while I was out. (To prevent confusion, I'm going to continue talking as if the body and family are *mine*; it's too wordy otherwise.) He would often ask me for a kiss on the mouth, touch me inappropriately, etc. Nothing too horrendous. However, he did throw me into a sliding glass door once. I don't know what set him off or how I didn't hurt myself in any major way, but there it is.

Rose, our resident 7-year-old creative genius, was hurt far more than that. She has been through more than I have, and somehow she isn't afraid of sex or men or anything like that. The only thing that frightens her to tears is the thought of being put into a closet. My father used to take her into the closet and put things ... where they did not belong. She has nightmares occasionally about this, and talks about a green box. Apparently, that's where he kept his *torture toys* as I call them. He has also thrown her into walls and various pieces of furniture.

My 8-year-old counterpoint, who currently shares my name, I think has taken the worst. From what Josh (diana's boyfriend) has told me, she will submit to anything without a fuss. She sits quietly, hands folded, totally patient. She talks about "Daddy," my father, and thinks the world of him. She can't go to sleep at night without being *used* sexually. She calls it "saying goodnight" and claims that my father did this to her every night. I don't doubt that he's capable of this, but it mystifies me as to why she adores him like he hung the moon, sun and stars.

She also claims that "Daddy" sent her home with his friends sometimes. As in loaned her out, for them to use at their leisure. And she let them, submitted to it, and thought nothing of it.

All of this makes me very angry; generally, that's how I respond to sexuality, with anger. I can't believe any human being is capable of doing this to children, yet I don't doubt his ability to hurt us all. We've all been hurt badly. I think my anger comes from my hurting. I don't know how Rose expresses her hurt, and I'm amazed that my counterpoint doesn't seem to be hurt at all but rather seems to view it as an expression of love from my father.

I do have a few questions, which you don't necessarily need to read the cut to understand or answer:

1. Is it logical that my anger stems from extreme hurt? Some of it could come from knowing what my father did to the others, right?

2. Is it normal for me to be able to *see* the others' thoughts, at times, without their knowing? This happens to me sometimes, and I was just curious about it.

3. Does anyone else who's been sexually abused have problems with your sexuality, ie, expressing it, being okay with it, or problems with the opposite sex? I have a very hard time with the concept of "dating" a guy.

Okay, I think that's about it, it's a kind of long post, sorry! But I really have no clue, and like I've said before, I don't like things that I don't understand.

Thanks!

Comments

[vinik.livejournal.com]

1. Your anger could stem from either or both as far as I'm concerned.

2. Yes. It would probably be a good idea to tell those people what you're capable of, though. Personal boundaries are an important thing when it comes to thought/memory sharing.

3. Sexual abuse can cause anybody's sexuality to become dysfunctional in some way (plural or not). We highly recommend The Sexual Healing Journey (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060959649/002-9838382-8427205?v=glance&n=283155) for people who are interested in learning the impact that sexual abuse has had on their sexuality and how to regain their healthy sexual selves. There's a blurb on Multiple in there if I remember right, but you can take it with a grain of salt like we did or however you choose to.

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

Thank you. My basic problem is my paradoxical view of sexuality in general. *sigh*

Also, they do know what I'm capable, and a lot of the time they don't really like it. I know diana doesn't like it. But I have the feeling that I NEED to know what they are thinking, because it's my job to know and keep them safe and happy.

Thanks again.

[vinik.livejournal.com]

If you feel that is your job, what about telling them about it? That way you can work out together what would be an acceptable way for you to help others in the system. Maybe a little mind-reading is acceptable to some, but not without certain pre-existing circumstances. Maybe for some, they don't find that sort of thing helpful at all. Anyway, this might allow you to continue to do your job while being aware and respecting the boundaries of others in there. And it would encourage them to start learning to care for themselves as well, I think.

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

I don't think they can take care of themselves at all. I've told them that the reaon I do this is because I have to, that it's my job and my place, and they argue with me. I know that is is invasive, but there's the nagging sense that I need to do it anyway. I feel like as long as I do it so that it's not overly forceful or overly felt to them, it should be okay.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Do they give specific reasons why they don't want to be supervised as closely as you describe?

Sexuality

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

I haven't undergone any sort of abuse, but my wife has, and I've known quite a few before her who did also, so I don't have any firsthand experience, but I do know a bit about what's normal and such. Based on that, this has been my experience:

1. I personally get very angry at just about anyone's abuser. This can't be linked to personal experience, because I don't have any of that. OFten, (especially among empathic people, but I'll get to that later,) people want otehrs to be treated fairly, and when such a great injustice as abuse happens, they get mad. I know that's what it is in my case. Also, the more I care about the person who was abused, the more I hate the person who abused them. Seeing how you're attached to the others, it's very reasonable that you would be mad and hurt because of what he did.

2. I'm an empath. This happens to me all the time, even among people who aren't living in my head. It's much, much easier to understand and relate to someone you're sharing headspace with. We all have a lot less privacy in headspace than most people are comfortable with, but *we* are comfortable with it, and that's what matters.

3. My wife and I are both lesbians. I suspect that one (but distinctly not all) of the reasons why she is so pulled to girls is because of the abuse perpetrated against her by her brother-in-law. I think denying/avoiding sexuality with an entire gender is much more common when the perpetrator is someone close to you, or related to you. These are serious breaches of trust either way, but when it is someone legally obligated to care for you (as it was in my wife's case,) the breach is one that may take decades to repair.

I'm not one of those lesbians that tries to "convert" everyone, and I'm probably gonna start a huge flame war over this, but I gotta say it . . . if you are not comfortable dating guys, would you perhaps be more comfortable dating girls? Even if you do not see your long-term goal as being with a girl, learning intimacy with someone who your mind doesn't automatically assume is the enemy may help you to transition into any sexual activity.

Of course, I'm of the oppinion that 90% of the world is to at least some degree bisexual. It has also been my experience, as a lesbian, that lesbian sex is by nature more giving than recieving. It's not like boyXgirl, where the man can completely ignore his partner's sexual needs and still get his jollies off. Lesbian sex revolves around your partner's experience. The body's boyfriend may be ok with this, or you may have to try this not IRL.

Or maybe I'm completely assuming and you're a highly offended homophobe or something. My head's not working too well today, so please don't get offended.

Re: Sexuality

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

I agree that straight people can be concerned about their partners, I didn't mean to imply that it was impossible, I was just saying that it seems to be a necessity in a lesbian relationship.

I'm not rightly sure if outright conversion attempts ever actually happen, but there sure is a lot of parady of them in the gay community. I think this is more of a myth that the fundamentalists try to use to condemn gays--"OMG!!! look at them! They are converting our youth with their EVIL, SINFUL WAYS!!!"

Re: Sexuality

[pthalo]

we're a lot more comfortable with girls. abuse issues and flashbacks and all that still come up with girls, but the sex is so much better. and it's easier (for us) to have relationships with girls.

Re: Sexuality

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

I'm angry when I think about what happened to the others, but I tend to not think about what happened to me.

Actually, I am not a highly offended homophobe. I'm bisexual and tend to do better sexually and emotionally with girls. diana's boyfriend Josh is okay with it. And I tend to ignore gender, since I can't seem to figure out what I am myself. Thinking about it, it's easier to just *love* someone if I'm not consciously aware or thinking about the fact that the other person is male or female, and just stay with the knowledge that the other person is a person. (I'm sure that made little sense.) I.e., instead of thinking "This is Josh and he's a boy and I don't know if I really want to do this with a boy...", I'd just have the awareness of "This is Josh and this is a form of love for both of us."

Self-discovery number 23!

Thanks!

Re: Sexuality

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

I don't think I have any straight-only women in my system who'd be bothered by my wife, Freya, but I do have a couple of gay-only men who are kinda alarmed by it. I'm posting a buletin in melaspace about what you just said, maybe that'll help some of the more reluctant gay boys. . . .

[shadowechoes.livejournal.com]

You're 8 year old counterpart sounds a lot like a couple of the kids in our system.. it's disturbing to us how they act and react to things. :/

1. Is it logical that my anger stems from extreme hurt? Some of it could come from knowing what my father did to the others, right?
Sounds like it could be from either one, or a combination of both.

2. Is it normal for me to be able to *see* the others' thoughts, at times, without their knowing? This happens to me sometimes, and I was just curious about it.
I think so - I mean, it sounds like how we can access eachother's thoughts and memories as part of our collective memory/consciousness and/or co-fronting.

3. Does anyone else who's been sexually abused have problems with your sexuality, ie, expressing it, being okay with it, or problems with the opposite sex? I have a very hard time with the concept of "dating" a guy.
Some of the members of our system do. Some have sworn off men forever and refuse to have anything to do with our boyfriend even though they know he's a good guy, they just can't be with him as a girlfriend. Some of us have acquired interesting sexual appetites I guess you could say. Some are very turned off by the whole idea of sex, some are overly-sexual. A number of us are also just more edgey around men in general. We've all reacted to things differently, but we all experienced it differently too.

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

Our system doesn't have a collective memory, exactly. It's there, accessible to everyone, but you have to know where to go and what you're looking for. We do have collective consciousness when co-fronting, but only then, and only the ones who are fronting together are in on it. Me, I can sort of reach out from behind my stone wall (yes, it is actually a stone wall lol) and see what the others are thinking, no matter what's going on.

The problem I have with *dating* is that it's very limited. I don't like limits. I highly prefer something like *friends with benefits*.

Thanks.

[ques-nova.livejournal.com]

Normal, yes. Logical, not neccessarily. My suggestion is to seek therapy for the abuse. It's certainly sounds like there's a few with unhealthy outlooks on sexuality, which can be helped if you find the right therapist.

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

We've tried therapy in the past, and it doesn't seem to help us. I just get mean and nasty, diana gets overly emotional, Rose gets scared, and Plastic about has a fit. If we could find a therapist who understands us as multiples, it might be different.

[ques-nova.livejournal.com]

Well that's got to be the first question you ask, before seeing one of them is whether or not they're multiple friendly. I've not had too much luck finding those who were either, but from what I hear, they are out there.

Sexuality?

[haunted-blue.livejournal.com]

We have one, who oddly enough is our creative genius who is devoted/worships one of the abusers. Strange how that is. We think he holds most of our little ones in his own system. As for the sexuality question, some of us see it as cash, some of us see it as exciting, some of us see it as pain, some of us are numb to it and some of us have no idea what gender they are let alone want. And some know they are neither. Then one that we know of can't even say the words and calls it you know what. Sometimes we're a freaking mess. And sometimes we're doing all right. But we have dark hearted ones in our midst. Ones who have harm in them. We try to keep those ones away from the house/Terra and let the others front.

I know what some in the system are thinking and at times it is necessary to ask them to please not project to strongly for it isn't just thoughts, but sometimes memories and at times waves of feelings so powerful they side swipe us out of the haunted blue.

Love is letting one cry if one has to.
nobody

[pthalo]

1. sure. i think most anger comes from hurt.

2. that happens to us sometimes, a little, when two people are particularly close, but not always.

3. dating is difficult. sex is difficult. i avoid relationships, but they keep finding me somehow. argh.

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

3. dating is difficult. sex is difficult. i avoid relationships, but they keep finding me somehow. argh. I know what you mean.

[squnq.livejournal.com]

1. I'd echo that it could be from either, or both. We have quite a fair bit of anger ourselves.

2. It's not uncommon at all, depending on what type of system you've got. Ours works that way as well sometimes, but we have little trouble hiding our thoughts from one another.

3. We do. None of us can express it properly, though we don't have any particular problems with any specific gender so much as problems with specific types of people - people with certain fetishes or who exhibit certain behaviours drive us away very easily.

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

They can't hide their thoughts from me, they've tried and I can always get through.

I just have a strange view on sexuality, I'm beginning to think....

[chaostiny.livejournal.com]

1. I Also believe that anger comes from either hurt or fear, and in your case there is probably a fair amount of both.
2. We in our system cannot read each others thoughts unless it is allowed, sort of like a vulcan mind meld. But, there are some in here who project their thoughts without even realizing it so on that level there is some thought reading going on, but it's more like reading a billboard than a small print bible.
3. We have major problems with sex but we are working on it. I have a partner who is very loving and understanding but has a much higher sex drive than I and we end up fighting over how often. I still have to prepare myself mentally every time which makes spontenaety (sp?) impossible. It has only been in the last few months that I have really been able to have sex and enjoy it, but enjoy it I do... at last!

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

Yes, Rose projects without knowing it, so that her thoughts are like a movie on screen. I guess she thinks in pictures still.

I almost have a higher sex drive than the only person I am currently sleeping with (Josh), but I think we're pretty evenly matched. I've always enjoyed it, physically, but usually later or right before, I have this feeling of self-loathing and fury at myself.

[effeteifrit.livejournal.com]

I don't have answers for your last two questions, but as for the first one, it's very reasonable to feel anger because you felt hurt in the past. In my experience, anger has come up as a protective mechanism.

It seems to function on one level to keep one from thinking that the hurt was okay. On another level, it prepares one to fight to defend themselves after their space has been invaded--I think it's a survival mechanism.

I don't mean that anger or rage is the only way to avoid the feeling that what happened was okay or deserved, but it is a very potent way to assert oneself against these (two of many) alternatives.

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

I think it's a survival mechanism My anger is tied up in survival. I see it as one of two major ways to make it through life. (The other being my distorted sexuality.) I wonder often why people aren't more angry -- I think it would help them hold their own in the world. But that's just me.

[browncoatrebel.livejournal.com]

1. Is it logical that my anger stems from extreme hurt? Some of it could come from knowing what my father did to the others, right?

It has been our experience that anger comes from both sources. I didn't take the worst of the abuse from our "father," and I'm still angry. Also, the one in our system who holds the most anger is not angry because she herself was hurt. It's a complicated thing, and I'm not sure I'm making much sense here.

2. Is it normal for me to be able to *see* the others' thoughts, at times, without their knowing? This happens to me sometimes, and I was just curious about it.

I have never been able to do this, but others in the system can. We have a very strctured system, and certain ones of us were created to be able to get into the minds of others. It's somewhat of a boundary issue for us.

3. Does anyone else who's been sexually abused have problems with your sexuality, ie, expressing it, being okay with it, or problems with the opposite sex? I have a very hard time with the concept of "dating" a guy.

Yes, most definitely. I don't date. I don't even like to be looked at. My friends have learned that most of the time it is not okay to touch me, though there are others in my system who do like it.

Sara

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

I know the others see it as my invading their space when I watch their thoughts, but I see it differently. I think I have to be able to know what's going on so I can be ready when something happens and I need to be out to keep everyone safe.

I like to flaunt *my* body, show it off, be generally very sexual -- without anyone touching me. It's okay for me to touch them, but not vice versa. Big no-no. Unless I say it's okay. Once I say it's okay, that usually means more than just touching anyway. It's all or nothing.

Thanks.

[browncoatrebel.livejournal.com]

Have you tried discussing as a group thought-sharing? In our main system, we have a council that makes all the important decisions, anything that would affect more than one or two of us. We are almost always able to come to some sort of compromise, as Lily is very good at ironing those things out.

Sara

[iamreal.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry for all of you who were hurt. First, I'd like to respond to what you said about your 8-year old counterpoint. She strongly reminds me of a 3 year old in this body's partner's system. What it is with her, and might be the case (or similar) with your 8 year old, is that for her, that was the only way she knew love. It was presented as love. And when you're little, or have grown up in a vastly unhealthy way, everything can be twisted. With the abuse our partner experienced, sex was the reward. It was love and it meant they weren't going to be hurt anymore. Children need to feel love and safety coming from their parents, so they will interpret whatever behavior they get as love and safety. Just a thought.

1. It's perfectly reasonable for your anger to be coming from one or both sources, or from many others and combinations thereof. Anger is a very powerful emotion. It allows you to protect yourself and others. It allows you to grieve and mourn what was taken from you. Anger is not a bad feeling, and it doesn't have to be a substitute for anything else.

2. I would say it's not abnormal. Everyone's system works differently. I think I'd agree with people above who have said that (if it's possible) you let the others know you can do this, so they don't feel invaded. Also, is it a choice? Can you do it when you want to and not do it if you don't? or is it something you have no control over?

3. Yes Yes Yes. I don't know anyone who has been abused who does not have (many) issues around sex. Try and be patient with yourself and your system. It will get better eventually.

be safe,
Jaqueline

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

It was love and it meant they weren't going to be hurt anymore. Children need to feel love and safety coming from their parents, so they will interpret whatever behavior they get as love and safety.

I figured as much. That makes me even more angry. Grrr...

I've always thought of anger as a good thing, something that keeps people safe. Hurt, on the other hand, is something that I would never be able to admit to feeling. Unless I was feeling it deeply at the time someone asked, in which case I suppose I wouldn't be able to lie.

When reading the others' thoughts, yes I can control it. I often watch diana and Rose, with or without their permission. Like I said earlier, Rose projects it all anyway without her realizing it. diana doesn't realize it unless I am forceful about it or I speak to her when she can't *see* me.

It better get better eventually lol!!

Thanks.

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

Thank you for all your comments and advice and answers. They are greatly appreciated.

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

---

1. At this point, it's 'logical' for your anger to come from absolutely anything. Where it's rooted, that's more likely something for a shrink to ask.

2. Co-conciousness, memory sharing, these things are normal. As has been said though, privacy issues are important, you may wish to address this.

3. Oh yes. I'm scared of men in general, and I vary between terrified of sex and using it innapropriately (much like your 8-year old counterpart.) The only men I've allowed that close to me are very priviliged individuals. I find it difficult to allow men on that emotional level with me.


Also... My abuser, no, but my father figure certainly, no amount of verbal or physical abuse, no amount of mistreatment, nothing, is ever likely to stop me viewing him as my idol, my hero, the person I would do anything for. That's... normal. Healthy? Maybe not so, but normal.


~Selene (who is too lazy to log in her own account)

[scream-aloud.livejournal.com]

The only men I've allowed that close to me are very priviliged individuals. I find it difficult to allow men on that emotional level with me. There is only one man I've allowed to actually have sex with me, but I have a long, long, long history of leading other men on and giving away everything but intercourse. It's almost a power trip sometimes, as if it proves that I have control over them. Usually though, it's far more complicated than that.

Blah, I guess. Thanks.

[base-oiboi.livejournal.com]

1:This is actually the most logical route one takes when sexually abused. I'm going to use myself as an example here. I have an enormous amount of rage in me; due to my life and my hometown, it has been mostly repressed (People usually don't know whats best for you, I'll put it that way) for a lot of my life. I've tried to control it my whole life, which is amazing, considering. It got so bad, it manifested as another person inside me, acting as a lock for my rage, to ensure I don't lose control.

2:I haven't had too much experience with that, though I often am able to watch.

3:Very much so. I've never had any good 'serious' relationships, including when I was coerced into sex by my girlfriend at the time that my brother was molesting me. I'll put it this way: I have 3 personalities handling anything sexual. I have no want for sex in the least due to this.

Hope this helped. I'm always there to talk, as I'm sure the rest of the group is as well.