Amputee members who identify by "missing" body parts (and and aside about "negroes")

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

Anyone else with a similar experience?

I have one member of my system in particular who I am thinking about . . . her name is Detta, and Detta does not have any legs in her body. She identifies very strongly with her lack of legs (amputated at the knee in a train accident.) She will not walk when she is front, or use her legs at all. In fact she denies that they exist at all, and fronts often in grocery stores, (partly because she *loves* to look at the brightly colored packages, but) mostly because she can borrow the store's wheelchair and she feels comfortable riding in it. Otherwise she has to sit in chairs and not move about, or scoot around on my butt. She will go to great lengths to not use the legs, even though I know she is physically capable. She just identifies as a double-amputee, and is unwilling to accept that the legs are there. She will not ask for help if it is something she is capable of accomodating around, even if it involves slithering in the floor and up a flight of stairs, but she will allow others to front and "walk" her somewhere if we are out somewhere and she doesn't want to cause a scene.

Aside about Detta and "Negro":
As a side note, Detta is what we now refer to as "black" or "african-american," but she refers to herself as "negro" and often does so quite vocally. When people question her as to why she is using the wheelchair, or when she wants a store clerk to do something for her, and they will not, she will often radically change accents and demand that she be treated fairly, say things along the lines of, "You're just saying that because I'm a negro," "You won't let me return this item because I'm negro." "Ya know ya can't deees-criminate against me just because I'm a poor ol' negro," and other things that make me get some seriously weird looks, as I could NEVER be mistaken for anything other than very, very white. She sometimes even refers to herself as a "nigger" and doesn't seem to have any problem with it. She sees words such as "african-american" and "black" as very, very insulting and demands that her skin tone be refered to as negro, much to everyone else's dismay, and to the dismay of others around me. Fortunately, every other "negro" I encounter seems to get along fabulously with Detta. (I was afraid that a transparently white girl referring to herself as negro (and even worse, nigger) would cause at very least racial tension, but of the dozens of black people Detta's talked to, not a one was offended. Some were very, very confused at first, but all of them seemed to like her.)

I also have another girl who suffers from the same kind of polio that plagued President Roosevelt, and she is unable to move her legs, but unlike Detta, this girl will move the legs manually with our arms and hands. (She will sit down and then place the legs in a comfortable position using the hands.) What is interesting to note is that she is much, much better at comfortably placing the legs than anyone else in the system. The legs never fall asleep in the positions she puts them in, even if she leaves front and I stay in that position for hours. I suspect her legs are particularly sensitive, and she has learned over the years exactly which positions cause pain and which do not.

Comments

[sky-communicate.livejournal.com]

Hello. Im not sure if this is exactly what you mean, but there are people in our 'system' who lack limbs also, and it transfers to the outside. There are people who literally cannot walk, so they usually just sit, and there are some who are missing limbs, and when they are out those limbs are really weak/dont work for very long. There are some with limps, and things like that which also carry over. uhm..some people who are missing limbs react the way that Detta does, and dont even want to see the limb, so if its an arm for example, they'll put it in our sleeve or something.

The girl you're talking about reminds me of Dominici. shes very sick/weak in the body, and has trouble with her bones, but the times that she is out, were most comfortable, because of the way she places the body. as long as shes not moving around too much, were good.

hope this helps some.

-Gene

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

I suspect Detta's mind deletes the legs from what she sees, and others co-front with her to make her delusion run smoothly. She will sit normally in the wheelchair, not with her legs tucked under her, as she would if she wanted to "pretend they weren't there." I also think that Detta's mind darkens my skin color. She is very, very uncomfortable with the concept of being a white girl with legs, and I think her mind compensates for it.

[shadowechoes.livejournal.com]

Well, we don't have any who are missing limbs, but we do have a member who is mute (and one who just doesn't talk, but that's another story). Even though the body is perfectly capable of speech, when she fronts she still isn't able to talk verbally. Maybe if she tried she could learn to use the body's vocal chords, but she doesn't have any desire to.

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

Our system has "programs" that allow (almost) any member to walk, talk, eat, drive the car, and perform basic functions. This is helpful for those who cannot normally do those things. One of my system members is very adept at writing these programs, and he sees it as very similar to coding a computer. I think he was involved either in military coding or in making video games before he showed up here.

Many people who are involved in the Deaf culture, be they merely mute or actually Deaf, will identify very strongly with being Deaf, and do not wish to becomin hearing (or speaking), even if the process was easy and non-complicated. Like Detta, they identify themselves by their disability. Detta could use the program to walk, but she choses not to, as it does not fit in with her self-image of who she is.

[padawanagain.livejournal.com]

Detta as in The Dark Tower?

[chaostiny.livejournal.com]

That was my question as I am just starting the sixth book in that series "Song of Susannah".
We have a few who are incapable of speech or hearing and one who is unable to walk due to all the back injuries we received as a child. She tends to not come out unless we are at home and seated somewhere with someone we trust.

Detta and <i>The Dark Tower</i>

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

Yes . . . Detta specifically asked me to not mention that, as she is afraid it will make people take her less seriously. She is afraid of someone saying, "oh, she is just an imaginary character out of that book."

Detta does have some interesting differances from the Detta from Dark Tower, but for those of you who have read the book, it is understandable that she would feel a bit of deja-voo and uncomfortable in the body of a white girl with legs. I think if I get pregnant, she would flip out!

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

Quincy experiences something of the opposite - phantom appendages (wings, tail & occasionally a snout) which she can cause the rest of us to feel.

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

Oh, and:

I was afraid that a transparently white girl referring to herself as negro (and even worse, nigger) would cause at very least racial tension, but of the dozens of black people Detta's talked to, not a one was offended. Some were very, very confused at first, but all of them seemed to like her.

Perhaps they think she has negro blood relatives, and just happened to end up with a white phenotype? Or something like that?

phantom limbs

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

Jenninova (anthro octopus) experiences phantom tentacles, but she has never tried to share that experience with others. Undoubtedly she will now share with gusto.

[familiasystem.livejournal.com]

In my case, I came into existence (however you define that term) without limbs at all, except for small leg stumpies. For the longest time, I rarely fronted because of this, because I had no clue how to use these big weights that were attached to my shoulders and hips. I have in time learned to co-front with Rana so that I can front and she controls the limbs for me (under my commands). That said, there are still times (particularly when using the computer) that I will front solo, and times like that I will use a mouth stick to type.

[familiasystem.livejournal.com]

You might also want to check out inneramp. It's not terribly active, but there's a few of us who still are members, and new discussion is always welcome. :)

no limbs

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

You feel more comfortable not using your limbs? That seems to be the consensus of those here who have never had a particular limb. I'm sure it feels somewhat similar to an experience I had of trying to font in the body of a 'taur. (like a centaur, but in this instance replace the "horse part" with "leopard parts.") I got the impression that I was trying to coordinate *way* too much, and that was me going from four appendages to six. I can only imagine going from none to four! Detta on the other hand had her legs until she was in her late teens and merely decides not to use them.

Out of curiosity, why do you have no limbs? Were you a Thalidamide baby?

[kasiawhisper.livejournal.com]

we try really hard not to draw any outside attention to ourselves..

Amirah

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's just me . . . but I treasure the "strange" members of my system. They make me who I am, and add a lot of interesting stuff.

Dark Tower

[haunted-blue.livejournal.com]

In the different books I've read it says that many multiples are very impressionable. So it is possible that she read the Dark Tower and her and developed an alter that has those characteristics. We did the same thing long ago with a song. Ode To billy Joe. It stuck in us then suddenly, there he was. Not identicle to the song, but a boy named Billy Joe with his own family, his own ideas and his own life. So an alter that takes after a character in a book or a song or even in RT, wouldn't seem too unusual.
Nobody

Re: Dark Tower

[kasiawhisper.livejournal.com]

"very impressionable".. what in the world does that mean? o.O

Kasia

Re: Dark Tower

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

I am particularly prone to having people wake up from books I have read, or movies I have watched. Sometimes, quite eeriliy, someone will wake up and tell me their story *before* I encounter the book/movie about them. I don't have a problem with this, and I usually take it at face value that they are indeed from an alternate universe where they *are* that particular person. Most of them are very concerned that their stories and lives will not be believed simply because someone else wrote a similar (fictional) story.

Re: Dark Tower

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

Possibley.

Doesn't make us alters though.

~Selene

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

subjective experience (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=subjective+experience&filter=all)

subjective body (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=subjective+body&filter=all)

self-perception (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=multiplicity&keyword=self-perception&filter=all)

Being Impressional

[haunted-blue.livejournal.com]

So I gather people think that the close relationship between Deta and the Dark Tower is just coincidence? No one thinks she might have read the book and then the alter in her closely related to the character in it? Or a crippled black chick with an atitude (And a train accident) was in her from the start?
Impressional wasn't my word, but the shrinks words. As people who have read a bunch of books on MPD, would have read. As a matter of fact, I pointed out that it came from the books. Imagine that. I... would have put the word, intelectual on it. Anyway, I never said anything about people existing or not existing. I have over 100 alters in my system and each one is as real as the keyboard I'm typing on. Interesting though, peoples reaction. Have a good day.
Nobody

Re: Being Impressional

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

We have read a bunch of books on MPD (unfortunately). You're right that that's how a lot of the shrinks would look at it. It's also some people's actual experience, by their own report. No one is denying that.

However, you read what fireincarnation herself said. It is not her experience that Detta in her system was a pre-existing alter (in the sense of a subself split from a main or central self) who adopted the identity of Detta from the book. Rather, if I'm understanding her correctly, Detta in her group is Detta from the book. It's called (at least by a few people on line) soulbonding.

(I still don't like to use the word "soulbonding" for that experience. To me, it has the older meaning of a spiritual tie or communion, such that what affects one affects the other.)

I feel that it's up to fireincarnation (and especially Detta) to say whether or not that is what happened.

What we were disputing was the idea that "multiples are more impressionable than singlets". There's no real evidence for it; it's part of a theory some (not all) doctors have, based on their work with relatively few clients. The theory is that multiplicity is a sort of mental hypochondria characterized by self-induced hypnosis. Doctors who favor this theory, if their writings are any indication, tend not to think very highly of their clients. You've probably read the same books we have; remember where Eugene Bliss and Robert Mayer called their clients "hypnotic virtuosos" like it was some kind of an art form? That's why we get a bit annoyed when people bring up the idea that "multiples are more suggestible", or impressionable, than singlets.

Re: Being Impressional

[ques-nova.livejournal.com]

I've met a number of people who have had "alters" which too closely resemble characters from fiction which they didn't see/read until long after they were aware of said "alters", thus I wouldn't have even questions that she was in there from the start.

Re: Being Impressional

[weirdiguess.livejournal.com]

Books don't know it all kiddo. Fact of life. That DID even exists is disagreed on, let alone that multiples are 'more impressionable'.

And I stick by my statement that none of it makes us alters. I don't know about Detta, but I'm not an alter. None of us here are alters. It's mildly frustrating that you continue to use that term regardless of whether or not it is applicable to this individual.

~Selene

[ohnosir.livejournal.com]

Not exactly the same, but...
The only other one of my system who fronts at all is Jack. While he's certainly not missing any limbs, he has a few extra ones--draconic ears, horns, wings, tail, etc. Whenever he fronts I have a feeling he's a bit perturbed by the lack of these extra features. Things are smoothed out a bit by the fact that I also possess the same basic "phantom" limbs as he does, but a slight transition (my bird wings to his bat wings) can make a difference.
Also when he fronts, he comes with his own set of expertly honed senses, which he is able to use, even if my senses don't match up.

~DL