(no subject)

[pengke.livejournal.com]

I’m sure everyone has read someone’s post on this community or read a comment that made you stop and think, “I don’t believe you.” If you haven’t, either you don’t read the threads very closely or you work very hard not to think critically about anything you read here, because there have been some very outrageous claims made here over the years. (But that’s an entirely different discussion.) I want to know what people think when they come across one of these statements that they just can’t believe.

Do you:

A) Think the person is lying.
B) Think the person is knowingly role playing
C) Think the person believes that they are multiple but is probably unintentionally role playing or some other form of imagination
D) Think the system is lying about the experiences
E) Think the system is knowingly or unintentionally role playing the experiences
F) Think the system is adhering to the community’s cultural norms/trying to fit in
G) Think the system probably honestly believes their claims even though another explanation seems more logical to you
H) Think the system probably started out making things up but has since convinced themselves that their claims are true
I) Worry that you might be making things up too or that someone else might think you are
J) Think something else entirely – please share

Also, do your thoughts change depending on why you can’t believe the statement? For example, is there a difference between someone claiming to do/be something that you think is impossible and someone contradicting themselves or claiming that something happened in real life that could not have happened?

Comments

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

There are plenty of qualified medical practicioners who don't agree with your doctors, and they seem to be winning an awful lot of lawsuits (http://www.breggin.com) against the drug companies these days.

How you can compare somebody on mild/low doses of say, anti-depressants, so somebody who'se snorted cocaine.... I just don't get it. I really don't."

Well, here's an explanation (http://www.breggin.com/brain-disablingch1.html) if you want one. By the way, exactly the same claims now made for antidepressants were originally made for cocaine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud), so the comparison is not an unreasonable one.

"But being on asst drugs or being in long term mental health care does not mean that people should regard critically *everything* we say."

I never said that "people should". How other people regard things is really not my business, and I have no interest in telling them how they 'should' do it. I'm speaking only for myself when I say that I regard people on mind-altering drugs or in need of long-term psychiatric treatment as generally less reliable than those who aren't. I've never made any secret of what I think of 'psychiatric medications', and I've posted enough links to qualified medical practicioners who hold the same opinion that anyone here who wanted to know why I think that already does know.

Your being on drugs doesn't matter to me if you're expressing your opinion about movies, politics, your faith, or why you liked a certain book. However, if you tell me that something weird happened - something I regard as very improbable - the fact that you're dependent on mind-altering drugs is definitely going to be a factor in my consideration of how much credence to give you.

You don't have to like it, but it's the truth. A question was posed and I answered it honestly - the thing you might wonder is, how many other people think the same thing but wouldn't dare say so because, OMG, someone might be offended? That's the big problem with taking offense at peoples' politically-incorrect opinions, y'know - they don't stop holding those opinions; they just stop telling you that they hold them.

It doesn't really matter to me whether or not somebody I don't know personally and will probably never meet thinks I'm "one of the more rational people" on this community. Neither rationality nor honesty are highly-valued qualities here anyway - people are free to make whatever claims they please, however improbable, and even gently questioning them is considered unacceptable, let alone openly doubting them. So, being considered one of the more rational people of this lot doesn't seem like much of a distinction to me. It's probably offensive and un-PC to say that too, but again, it's the truth.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

Ah. See now people like Luwana and to an extent myself do actually *value* not only other people and their respect of us, but the other people we respect. People who, to put it bluntly, Don't Suck, are not exactly the most common commodity and so no we *don't* like it when they dip in our eyes.

With your rather... distinctive way of acting at this point, no it doesn't suprise us that you 'don't care'. It does however hugely disappoint us. Do feel free to 'not care' about that either. Apologies for ever actually giving a shit that you were sane and that we *liked you*. Because that is what has happened, we have seen you here for a while, laughed and smiled at your comments, and grown to respect and like you. Unfortunately we seem to have the fault of thinking/hoping that other people have that same capacity.


People winning lawsuits on other cases is, frankly, not our concern. We live in the UK so to start with, rules are stricter here than places like the US, and apparently most of the doctors are more paranoid when it comes to dishing out pills. Also, meds are CLEARLY known to affect people differently. If somebody wins a lawsuit for gabapentin causing a fit in some bloke in Japan, should we care? I think not. The most obvious reason being *It's Not Us*, and if these drugs (referring to mild drugs such as prozac) were as omgmindaltering as snorting coke I'm pretty sure they'd be off the shelves. Like I said, we live in the UK, where they are somewhat anally retentive about this sort of thing. Even if I didn't trust my doctor (in fact I think he EXAGERATES the risks), I do have somewhat of an amount of faith in our hugely pressured, twitchy, and paranoid governing bodies.

Do not get me wrong, if we were taking anti-psychotics every single day, oh fuck yes we'd understand your view. right now though, we don't. Weird things happen to everyone, and they are ALL on drugs. I'm not twitchy enough to demand a blood test from all of them to see what levels of naturally created mind altering drugs are in their system. To be quite frank, some of those bodily created drugs have stronger effects than for example, the stuff we're on. Feeling anger, for a very relavent example, skews how one acts and even thinks more so than our goddamn buspirone does. Every person is different, every person *reacts* differently, which is a sign that oh, people are on different doses of drugs at different times for different reasons. We don't dismiss *their* reactions (I mean, how often have you been *understanding* to a reaction, and *not* because it was 'just their brain'), so why should we be critical of somebody who's on mild medication? Personally I'd be more critical of those NOT on medication if I were you, because they're the ones not dealing with whatever is so wrong in their brain/body/life.

I am sure certain drugs *are* related. Much in the same way (to use another relavent example) mild Aspergers is related to full blown needs constant care autism. And even *that* I am reluctant to use as an example, because some of these drugs don't affect many individuals as much as Aspergers.

*clearly* we're *still* not going to undertsand somebody trying to use a kid with full blown autism as an example of why they have certain opinions of *us*.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

Well, I like you too, what little I know of you from what I read here, and even though we disagree about a number of issues. But since all you know of me is what little you read here, I don't see that you're in any position to know whether or to what degree I'm "sane" or "rational", and that's why your opinion on that particular topic doesn't matter to me.

By the same token, I'm not in any position to judge how sane or rational you are. However, I have taken Prozac, for two years in the early 90's - I used cocaine back in the 80's, though never as a regular thing - I have watched a dear friend deal with full-blown cocaine addiction, and I have watched several others go through Prozac addiction. Based on my personal experience and observation, I don't think there is much difference between the two drugs, except that the effects of Prozac are slower and more subtle.

If you care to read the links (by qualified medical practicioners) that I've posted, you will see that Prozac is not a "mild drug" by any definition. Type "prozac survivors" into your search engine and you can read about the experiences of hundreds of others who originally held the same opinions of that drug as you hold, but have since altered their opinions rather drastically.

You can cease to respect me for my opinions about "psychiatric medications" if you like, but that's not going to change them. And you can resent the fact that I think the use of mind-altering drugs of any sort lessens a person's credibility about certain things, but that's not going to change it either. My opinions are based on a great deal of personal experience with drugs, a great deal of personal experience with drug-users, and a great deal of research into the topic - I stand by them, and if someone doesn't respect me for holding them, that's okay with me.

I have never known a drug-user (of any drug) who didn't resent having their drug-use criticized, and deny that it was doing them any harm, so your reaction doesn't surprise me. And no, I don't think drugs are a healthy way of "dealing with whatever is so wrong in their brain/body/life". Psychiatric medications may relieve symptoms for some people, but they don't actually fix anything, any more than morphine fixes a broken leg.

This is not to say I think a person whose symptoms are causing them unbearable distress should not have any relief. If I broke my leg, I'd sure as hell appreciate some painkillers; if a person's mind/emotions are so broken that they can't function, psycho-active drugs may be the only thing that helps. However, if you do nothing for a broken leg besides take morphine, it's not going to heal; what you'll end up with is chronic pain and morphine addiction. The same is true for the use of drugs to numb out mental/emotional distress.

A lot of drug-users (both self-medicating and doctor-medicated) who vehemently deny that there's anything wrong with their drug use and resent anyone saying there is eventually get off the drugs and admit that the people who urged them to do so were right after all. In a few years, you may be one of them, even though you don't believe it at this time.

If not, then not. What you do to your body is your own business, and I don't expect you to heed the words of some person on the other side of the planet from you, of whom you know nothing but what you've read on a Livejournal community.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

It is only natural for someone, like us, to yeah be outright offended. Both of us were in the opinions of ourselves, our doctors, and people who know us, *more* skewed in our views, opinions, and how we reacted to 'weird' experiences, BEFORE we started receiving treatment. Our close friends who know us, and the medications we are on at certain times, know and will point out to us if a reaction we give is likely to be caused by the medication we're on, or any of our problems. We ourselves look closely at the symptom lists and keep an eye out for *any* sign that there's an effect, whether good or bad. If somebody is being a responsible adult about their problems and treatments, then we assume until signified otherwise, that they take the same level of responsibility.


We are cynical about drugs, do not take these comments as blind faith. A friend suggested seroquel to help with when my anxiety is at its worst, and we already are on edge, will be looking up symptom lists, etc. But... Prozac? Seriously? Long term medical 'care' for say, mild depression? We will never get how you can compare such thing to people who are stoned, and no amount of articles can change that. Unless somebody has a severe and bad reaction to the drug, that comparison is just, off the wall, it really is.


I'm not sure whether we're more put out by your opinion or by the fact that it's you that holds it. We will however try to be more brief in future replies when/if they happen.