Hi to all

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hi all,

To tired to do a all out introduction I apologize but there are many but my sisters have been posting here for about a month. Basiclly they all co front . Tiea Maria would be considered the "original birthling"

I'm from The Mosaic Gang , You all may know Shelby or Tiea or Jade I'm Markey ( female ) was with the therapist today and he is very e therapist, but he through us. Have any of you ever heard of a "tracer " or that term in a system or household map ?

He informed Tiea that she had a "tracer" she really needed to meet , he felt she could handle what the tracer knew about childhood.

We've been discussing it tonight cause I know most of the history of everyone more than some others know and tonight, we thought I should announce to all what I know. So nobody is clueless but now I'm wondering who the heck the "tracer " is I kinda thought that was always me being a Historian .... has anybody 's T ever talked about a "tracer" ? Is this a new term ? or like the ISH... were looking into Frank Putman cause we know the T reads him . Thank You all Peace to all , Markey ;-)

Comments

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

We're a little hesitant about anyone who tries and tell us "how things should be".

A TRACER what?

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Exactley I was like "wait if Tiea needs to know anything we'll all tell her" like some of the kids just dont know stuff the adults know but like there is one main fact sombody spoke about bio parents but heres the thing we all kinda thought Tiea already knew.
Unless we all had a glitch at the same time !

We checked and nobody has had lost time with T including Tiea. Now Tiea is super curious . It was said to me like I was the, Tracer and she knows me but Tiea was co fronting and he knew she would hear. This is so new for the T to say its time for Tiea to do anything... at all . he is usually such a femenist type therapist but he has been reading "positively plural " and astraea faq and mentioned "he is concerned that we are involved with a community that it will interfere with our work ." That bothered us too. More music we need more music/ Peace Markey

Re: A TRACER what?

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Positively Plural I could agree with -- they were fairly trauma-survivorship and helplessness / disorder outlook when we were there.

If he could explain how our pages would interfere with your therapy we would be curious to hear.

Re: A TRACER what?

[idianshire.livejournal.com]

Because of course you are anti therapy, and pro FMS... didn't you know??

God forbid any multiple goes to a site, yours, here, or anywhere, that encourages them to think for themselves and challenge professional and societal assumptions.. oops that's TRUTHS not assumptions

Re: A TRACER what?

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

yep thats what we think is basiclly it , but hard to say since we have known him 17 years and he has been very empowering till now , he 's acting like a jelous lover , Thats it but some of the Mosaic s would never say this of him we thinks there in love , Toni

"First cut is the deepest, but I'll try to love again" Ms. SherylCrow

Re: A TRACER what?

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hi its Shelby , I'm with Markey now were a little like a what see, ok we got your link off Positively plural and the Essence we thought you all were the same thing whoops duh who knows what he's reading all we've been reading lately is astraea stuff and pavillion and collective phenomenon but we got those links I think from Positively Pural but we dont read that. We read tour handle astraea .

Dident know there was anything to be read on Positively Plural we thought it was a search like engine for multiplicity like a resource.. Gosh who knows what he is reading if there trama / survivor based Cause he worries about triggers and helpless he does NOT GO FOR and WE DONT maybe he read something real off the wall.

When he first read astraea he was impressed and said it was a thourough Huge full of facts and you all have done your homework he was impressed . But obviously he is still working from a older model with this tracer thing .. were going to ask him what is up he seems defensive lately Icant really explain it but we all have noticed it .Thanks still listening to lots of MUSIC , neighbors getting upset whoops Peace ShelBy
"I shall be me , I shall be free" Sheryl Crow

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

If he has read our website carefully, he knows we are not at all against therapy if an individual or group find it genuinely useful.

If your therapist is concerned that pages like ours will impede your therapy progress, he is welcome to write to us at ksol1460 at livejournal dot com and ask us any questions at all.

However, from your comments below, it would seem that you as a group do not feel that you are in great need of further therapy at this time. It's almost as if you're continuing to attend out of habit and, as you say, guilt. Is it like that? You do know that you have the right to discontinue anytime that you wish, or to seek counseling with a different therapist?

*passing you a headset for late night Neil*

Neil Young is wonderful. He has gotten us through some very rough times.

Thanks for info

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hi Andy,
Got your note Shelby here Markey is singing ... , I think what Menassah is saying is the T thinks self - diagnosed mutiples are dangerous . Because it could be delusions or schizophrenia whatever He is concernnd about Tiea getting to know cause many may have other disorders and just refuse to seek help . He also is concerned about anti- Psch pages . He feels it is a little there in between the lines ,but he still thinks yours is the most supportive and informative page and he likes it too ,cause it is not all about Multiplicity ONLY . He mentioned the Politics page he reads and he is a Niel fan. He's 52 about the perfect age for Niel fans

He is not the e therapist we thought of after all though , and is working from a older model where he believes were holding out memories Tiea needs to be rid of us and whole another words Merged or integrated ( that hurts )... were all feeling a bit betrayed by him and Tiea too , she seems to be in her own world not wanting to hang out with us .

I think she found a group of people like her and is realizing she does not need all the therapizing she has gotten from him . hes losing control of her too.

The glitche is we need Psch supervision in our job but NOT twice a week . Every time she stops therapy for a while he write's her notes and signs it Love Always and asks her to please come back and finish what she began or he will have to write her up at work.

And we are all chillin to Niel right now" Prairie " Thanks for the headset

So the T is being a slite bit controlling Tiea always breaks down and keeps the appointments so she can keep our job but all he wants to talk about is THE PAST and TRAMA MEMORIES so of course we are feeling fine till we go see him " You are like a Hurricane " Niel
We know what your sayin though Thanks Peace Shelby from The Mosaic s Gang

Re: A TRACER what?

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hello my name is Marty,
Joe and I are the two adult men here . We were raiding the fridge and thought we would , chill out and look at what the ladies have been writing . Basiclly finding a multiplicity community has been the greatest thing for our gals .

The Therapist he is really kinda a dom and he knows that Tiea can be kinda sub ish at times , and he also holds her job which supports US , over her head .

Tiea needs Professional Supervision in order to stay in the Department she is in doing case work. The other counslers get Supervision once a month . We get it twice a week because of the multiplicity . The guy is definatly cool and has been in the past helpful . But its all circles now and they were students together before the therapist married .

Tiea and this guy use to just hang together . He knew a little of Tiea's past and offered to be her T, now that was 18 years ago . We think it started out wrong . He gets real threatened if one of us cancels . Its very blurred for Tiea with him . In subtle ways he controls Tieas thinking and he gets threatened by anything that helps her as much or more than him ,so dont take it personal.

He thinks she is chatting with allot of kids younger than her that believe it is chic to be plural, so there self diagnosing , people who engage in too much magical thinking and fantasy or they would get diagnosed professional. We heard him say he likes the political page and you all are good with your facts .

Trust us he just needs Tiea to need him and interestingly she hasen't lately. She did not even call him on the anniversery of her Mothers death which is always like a messed up time , so we think he is scratching his chin in wonder . He is a decent sincerely helpful guy though, something is off. Alright then Joe and I say are formal Hello's and Thanks and catch all ,ya later

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

I was looking around on Google and the only references I could find in relation to "tracer" was some kind of drug being injected into people with DID.. in a PET scan.. *shrugs*

kasia

No drugs

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

You mean a drug they give people diagnosed with MPD/DID cause Tiea was diagnosed with us in 1986 . We have all met him since then Wow thats allot of years with one therapist , maybe he feels he is losing control of us and now he wants to drug us we hope not .

Sheryl Crow " Cause Babe I'd Change"
Markey

Re: No drugs

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

No, that was a dye for a PET scan to trace brain activity. There is no evidence that you can diagnose people as multiple based on a brain scan. Despite what others may like to imply.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

How does he know you have a tracer? Some therapists get the idea that all multiples have such a person. Did one of the others tell him of such a one and you not knowing? Can he prove this? Why does he not wait for you to tell him how things are for you, rather than imposing such ideas?

"Tracer" is one of those words for "the one who knows everyone else and knows the entire history of your past" and some multiples do have such a person although there is no evidence all multiples have. This is based on 3 faces of Eve and Sybil who did have. Having heard that it was so, Robert Phillips spent years looking for Truddi Chase's one, only to find there wasn't. We have no such person.

then thats a old word

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Ok he the t always said he thought Christina was the ISH and that I would be helpful later but it turned out Christina was not the ISH we all were kinda with mostly Toni but we all are protective.

Where do they get this function nonsense from . ? No. Nobody identified themselves as one "thing " or "funtion " or "job " and that frustrates him. There is NO LOST TIME just allot of getting "stuck " what he calls "revoving door" and I told him I like History and keeping track of things and collecting stuff years ago and he then said "I think Markey you will be very helpful to Tiea later on in the therapy"

We just had a group meeting , Only two kids up and Tiea knows all her bio history except minor details which do not change the end result , we figure when she remembers fine thats all we know .Its kinda her business thats all I told him .I dont think we have this such called "tracer" that would mean we dont know each other.
"I'm a all American rebel making my big get away " Shyrel Crow
Thanks, Markey

Re: then thats a old word

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Where do they get this function nonsense from . ? No. Nobody identified themselves as one "thing " or "funtion " or "job " and that frustrates him.

That's what they read in books and what they're told in school-- that "every alter has a job." With some people, when it turns out that in real life things don't always work exactly the way they were taught they would, instead of adjusting their worldview to fit the facts, they try to twist the facts to fit what they were taught. It's like if you've been taught that all pegs are round, and someone hands you a square one, and you keep trying to push it into a round hole and get frustrated that it doesn't fit.

Shiu and Aude

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

Isn't that sort of like those therapists who say there has to be "someone who remembers the abuse" and suggest things that must have happened to cause MPD?

Sorta

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Well some of them think we just hold a memory of abuse .

You see were not people , were just a forgotton memory the missing piece, and when we give up our info to the birth person, they'll be integrated, And they think there is one person eveidently according to Frank Putman Md who holds all memory called a "Tracer" ... sorry everyone Manessah just woke up and explained this is what she thinks we dident do a head count , just a house call for group so Thanks duh

We do not have one of those tracers . Tiea is missing a part of a year but the end result is the same, but we all dont remeber from birth each year totally nobody singlet or plural does either have complete memory from birth ya know Peace Shelby

Re: Sorta

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

We're missing like 13 years and only a few really remember any of the 6 years after that. We just don' really care.

Re: Sorta

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Exactley , we are all collectively missing lots of years but Tiea's memory starts at 17. So she is missing birth to 17 .

Some of us know her history but we figure when she remebers its her business not ours to tell.

The T thinks we'll be cured when we all have full memory . Peace Shelby

Re: Sorta

[jaga-system-.livejournal.com]

But what do YOU (you all) think?

We aren't against therapy; We've had years of therapy.

However, we believe it should be your decision or better yet, your system's decision and proclamation that "you're cured."

Just some thoughts and questions to ask and answer amongst yourselves (fully don't expect it to be posted here).

What are you seeking from therapy? What specifically do you want different in your life/ves and system? How will you and your system know when you are done with therapy? That should get your creative thoughts and inspiration going to explore further if you so desire to do so.

Just our thoughts. Take them or leave them. No biggie.

JAGA

Re: Sorta Sad

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Now were so awake cause the truth is for the last two years we havent wanted to collectively be in therapy but there is one small factor the T knows that Tiea does not and we were told NOT to tell her ever , that she has to remeber this on her own .

But personally we 95% feel we got all we could from therapy the 5%would be Tiea wanting Ts approval and being told she is cured by remebering . Talk about a ephiphomy I ( murdered that word ) , ya know revelation. the T wants to keep her dependent on him for memory and deciding when she can remember, theres something fundematally wrong with that .

When she cancels ,not one of us, but her, he puts her on a guilt trip .He would never try on us so there is some manipulation going on . Also I think countertransference to a large degree where it is no good anymore

He also plays favorites to the teens and Jade and even Jade does not like that . Like he'll ask to speak to them specifically . Gosh ok I'm tired again, Peace and Blessings Shelby Just had to answer ya

Re: Sorta Sad

[jaga-system-.livejournal.com]

I really do not understand why your T would not want Tiea to know something. I do not understand the purpose of waiting till she "remembers on her own." She very well may never remember it. If ya'll are staying in therapy solely for that, then it sounds to me like it is counter-productive. Especially since you all know this certain piece of information but Tiea doesn't. If you take your T's opinion out of the picture, what do you all think about Tiea knowing this information? I would think that the resources you all have could help Tiea with this new information. I also imagine that Tiea has gained a lot of coping skills after so many years of therapy. I want to say that I do recognize that actually sharing certain information and memories and going through the process of it is more complex than that. It was just some thoughts I had.

Our therapist promotes sharing information amongst ourselves, co-consciousness, cooperation, etc. I do not mean to insinuate that your T doesn't, but our therapist does not keep secrets with the others and from me. She won't automatically tell me everything at the next session. Usually there are other things to be discussed, but if I ask her questions, she will tell me a little bit. Primarily though she refers me back to the others inside to ask, listen, etc., because we have to learn how to communicate and/or have better communication within our own system somehow. Sometimes she feels it is necessary that I know certain things and will inform me and address the therapeutic issue and hold me responsible for the issue that came up, especially if it concerns me and in effect, The Julies System. She mostly promotes inner communication and she is there to help work through the walls and reasons why certain communication and information is not shared, etc.

I guess I'm probably harping on an issue. It seems apparent to me that your system has done some processing with this post and various threads and your system seems to have come to some conclusions of your own. Good luck with things.

Julie

Re: Sorta Sad

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hi ,

No he has the stuff documented and he wont tell either cause she has No memory with FEELING. Like she rattles it off as a fact with no emotion and really doesnt ever get the depth of what she is actualy saying . She never picks up . We kinda cross are fingers she doesent either .

We all have shared plenty , but this might end us, in a merge with other people who would be considered not needed as much or able to front as much . We like being on the outside and inside too of course .

But Tiea doesnet ever hear herself, she says it like a robot and the T just stares at her waiting for her to put it together and breakdown and Balooby ....we'll be whole I guess... and I guess we'll be history like the merged others. Some dissappeared once merged and we cannot find them . So we hold our breath when The T brings it up twice a week . See it changes nothing of the result in the end what is ...IS so why bicker over small details ?Why keep looking for a tracer and a ISH ? We all contribute . Thanks for all you shared .

We dont think your harping on the issue just being helpful and we appriciate it allot" Long may you run "Niel Young

Peace Shelby & Jade from Mosaic Gang

Re: Sorta

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

By "cured" does he mean integrated? The whole concept that everyone having access to a group memory equals integration is based on the idea that multiplicity is intrinsically a disorder of memory, and that the only reason others exist is to 'hold intolerable memories.' Of course, there are plenty of groups who either had a group memory to begin with, or set one up later on, and people don't automatically lose their identities because they remember what others have done... I think plenty of potentially stable groups have been messed up because when everyone was made aware of everyone else's memories and they didn't automatically integrate, their doctors assumed that meant there had to be 'more memories' somewhere in there, and integration would occur after those had been dealt with; repeat over and over.

Re: Sorta

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

why do the doctors do that to people? why don't the doctors let people be who they are and stop making them all be something else? it makes me mad!! xoxox Kalli

Re: Sorta

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Because the ones who do that want to have all the power and authority for themselves. They want to be able to tell everybody everywhere what's good and bad. It makes me mad, too.

Re: Sorta

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hi ,

Its Shelby , Exactly ... and when does it end? Cause theres plenty we will never open up about for that very reason . He'll( The T) just keep making Tiea dig till he messes up our communication again and were back on the Merry Go Round called Therapy .

He's a cool therapist but he does have some info not all of us have about Tiea's bio parents and family . I guess we just dont have full memory of every year in chronilogical order so this would be the "intolerable memory " or "missing link" but some of us have some that we know will mess us up and end us merging.

Tieas subconcious must Know IT she says it, she just doesnt feel it or comprehend it , so he The T thinks we are holding out not sharing but we've shared through dreams and journals.TONI wrote part of it in lipstick on the bathroom mirror. NOT COOL. Now we all work together most times . Believe me it would just open up more trash Peace Shelby & Jade

Re: Sorta

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

disappearing after giving up your secret memory sounds scary. if that was me I wouldn't want to tell anything because I might go away and not come back. xoxo Kalli

Re: Sorta

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

lol too true! I like being!

Re: Sorta

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

They always tell you stuff like "Don't worry, you won't die-- you'll be merged into a new and better person with everyone else! You'll still remember everything!" Yeah, but how does "remembering everything" compensate for a loss of that sense of "I"? Depending on your views on what happens after death, it's arguably worse than dying, because instead of an afterlife or next incarnation you're basically getting cannibalised for a piece of this "new integrated self."

Re: Sorta

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

I cant sleep tonight and was thinkin about your comment.

Hello name is Marty and Joe is here, were the only adult men we ( we were up raiden the fridge ) figure the therapist will get rid of us first . We know it . We've been telling the ladies they are too, way too attached to him . Hes like a fr***kin lover at this point. With the hugs and the "I love you's" We know they've been through hell and back with him , and we respect that .

But the ladies all except maybe Shelby are not thinking clearly .
Like she finally said last night he has all the power .

over our job
over who merges , that would be us . No offense to Joe but I'm not lookin forward to spendin a eternity unfunctioning mushed together with him.
Nice to meet ya all, you've all been a great help to the Mosaic Gang . were happy when the ladies are cause it can get bitchen here hah

Re: Sorta

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Hes like a fr***kin lover at this point. With the hugs and the "I love you's" We know they've been through hell and back with him , and we respect that .

Helpful or not... it sounds like he's getting a little inappropriate with them. More than a little. The comment someone made about him acting like a jealous lover makes more sense now.

There's a lot of talk about patients getting inappropriately attached to therapists, but I don't hear much discussion about the other side of the coin, about therapists who get unhealthily attached to their clients. It's not always even necessarily about being romantically or sexually obsessed with them; sometimes it can be that they get stuck on the idea that they're going to be the one to "fix" the client, especially if other doctors have failed to help them, and some even start to see the client as their ticket to fame and public attention. (I think Cornelia Wilbur treated Shirley "Sybil" Mason in this way.)

And sometimes when sexual abuse is involved, there are some guys who will ask to hear the memories in detail because they actually get turned on by it.

Anyway, it sounds like whatever he's doing, his clinging to a certain model of multiplicity isn't doing your group any good.

Re: Sorta

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Hi Shiu,

I'm in shock that Marty and Joe took it upon themselves to air there differences openly . But this is Shelby and I have been concerned for a while .

The females in the gang we tend to think its more of a money thing and power and not so much sexual but at times he does get so defensive and hurt if we cancel . I thought I'd check our mail before heading off to work .

Were going to stop off at the Employee Assit today to see what other Counslers are avaiable . Tiea will resist this all day , and we want her to have ultimate control but honestly she has been sleeping allot and just not listening . What the T always says is he has to do close Supervision cause Tiea is in a high stress job with so many "triggers" daily. Makes a little sense , but not to out her . She functions fine .Shes a damm compassionate good worker .

We thought they just felt jealous or left out cause the T doesnt talk to them much, just knows there here .

Feels stressful now we dident know Joe and Marty felt so vulnerable .
Meanwhile Jade and I were thinking he would try to merge us .

If Tiea would only remeber it this full memory with owning it maybe we would not have to go anywhere but we all agree its time to express our concerns about the directon this is going .
She keeps asking now for the "tracer " to identify her or himself
as far as we know there just is not one .
We try to tell her stuff sometimes and she just doesnt always trust are memory and keeps looking to the T who has the documents . We dont think she'll ever believe even the documents Cause her Mom was Mentally ill and made allot of allegations parinoid spcizophrenic but the Mom was right with this . Well we got allot to think about and ackomplish. Stay Cool Thanks Shelby

Re: Sorta

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Ding Ding Ding BINGO Fianlly.. Hi Its Shelby , see thats it if we tell Tiea the whole memory ,I know he'll make us go away cause some others merged back in the late 80's and its like they can't get activeted outside again .

All 39 of us took a vote here and were not tellin .

Personally we don't think Tiea needs to know otherwise she would remember. The end result is still the same and she knows that .

The therapist does encourage her looking inside to us and us looking inside and us all communicating. He thinks Jade and I hold the specific memory and were not leaving. Were not leaven Tiea ,we love her and each other ... we may have to break ties and just do therapy from another Supervisor at work of course this doc would transfer info and out us, we know that. There goes the job . It all gives me a headahce " Transformer Man , Your in command unlock the secrets " Niel Young

Re: Sorta

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

He can't make you go away! He'll expect you to go away. And since you won't, but remain your individual selves, he may very likely insist that you are holding out on him on other, even worse buried memories and insist that you dig up and work on those... even if there aren't any!

A client who remains multiple after remembering all the tragedies, a therapist who won't give up ... This is why it is a mistake to believe that all multiplicity is always caused by buried memories of trauma.

Re: Sorta

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

*thinking about the missing piece thing*

We had one person who did just dissolve or merge or something when she shared something traumatic she held. We aren't certain (we can hardly ask now) but we think it was her choice to go. There was a sense of relief and "whew, I'm done" right before she did whatever it was.

The rest of us (32) have shared plenty with one another and haven't gone anywhere.

Goodnight to all

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Wow time flys ,

We got work in four hours my oh my Coffee , green tea time. One of us is going to ask the therapist what he is afraid of this week by phone ... The more we think about it. he has really has isolated us and kept us very dependent on HIM and for memories and good communication and since reading astraea on our own, communication has improved and, dam he is threatened .

As long as he has the excuse that we cousnil so need professional supervision which all helpers do . But it does not have to be him or so often. I hate to say this but when we were sick with a lupus flare up he called and did 20 minute phone sessions and charged full session insurance and all we could say was we were sick with fever and achey

No therapy .
We got some real thinking to do
We probobly put his kids through College since 1986 twice a week now were all getting angry . Nobody should have that much power .
Thanks to all we wish you all peace and Blessings May you live in The light Hugs Shelby from the Mosaic gang

"All my angry words keep me up at night" Sheryl Crow

Re: Goodnight to all

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

I hope things work out for you guys....!

kasia

Re: Goodnight to all

[jadedmosaic.livejournal.com]

Thank you all , Thanks Kasia ( that a beautiful name we have a katchia) Is yours pernounced like my sisters ? Just wondered .

I think we had a revelation about goals in therapy so now we can sleep . Have a good night and a greater day Peace & Blessings,& Jade Shelby from The Mosaic Gang

Re: Goodnight to all

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

:)

my name Kasia rhymes with Asia..

have good dreams..

kasia