Just another nutjob..

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

That isn't a jab at a previous poster, by the way. ;)

This is one of those times when I look back at my (and our) previous states, and feel crazy by comparison.

I - the Analyst - allegedly the rational-minded one in the system (isn't it nice to have a job description as the only name you're comfortable with - so limiting at times, but also so true and relatively safe) have been mucking about with totemic 'magic' in the past couple months. On the one hand, I'm pretty firmly convinced that the entire business is inside my head. On the other, someone or something seems to have taken advantage of the opportunity to move into my system, or possibly just make themself known.

He (definately a masculine presence) happens to be a shoggoth, and apparently my totem 'animal'. This is Weird.
He also has a personal name, which is unusual in a system where job-descriptions are more solid to just about everyone.
He hasn't fronted (yet?).

I'm rather at a loss at this point, since I wasn't expecting a response at all. I was most especially not expecting another system-member to show up. (Whether he's a soulbond or a native to the system, I have no idea. If he's native, does that change the validity of the totem-stuff?) I mean... bugger. My paradigms aren't built for this. Which is probably why I'm looking into the the subject at all, now that I think about it. ;)

I suppose the best thing to do at this point is to just go on. If he is what he says he is, stuff will continue to work. If he isn't, then it will eventually show in a way that requires me to adjust my understanding.

Wish us luck,
- An, with Ar, R, & S

Comments

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

We've been a 'stable' system almost since we knew we were one - just the three of us (An, Ar & R), and we know eachother pretty well. We seem to have started existing in a gradual fashion, roughly simultaneously. I really have no idea what to do when someone else shows up, who we haven't been aware of before.
I suppose it could be compared to sharing a house with two of your friends for years, then having someone unexpectedly move into your guest room and look like they're going to stay.

The whole magic business just adds another level of freakiness. ;)

What portion are you concerned about?

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

The fact that the totem is a shoggoth, or that it's a presence taking up residence?

--Me

Re: What portion are you concerned about?

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

That he seems to have moved in; I rather wasn't expecting it. (See the thread above)

[sharpsight.livejournal.com]

Computer systems, magic... I'm adopting (or have adopted) a theory about the methods used.

Personal suspicion: wheter one uses computer systems, magic, or any other infrastructure whatsoever to manipulate or influence yourself or your system (within your cranium) has no bearing on how such things work--or don't, as the case may be--in the outside world.

If it works, then good. However... be careful about assuming certain reasons or causes for effects.

[sharpsight.livejournal.com]

Heh. That applies to everything. *nods*

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

True.

I consider the stuff I was working on immediately before the weird bit started up to be the mental (and possibly spiritual, for all I know) equivalent to shouting 'Ay! Anybody out there?'. From here, it looks like I got a response. I just don't know what it means yet, or certain specifics of the nature of the being responding.

[colligocarus.livejournal.com]

I would venture to say that the "entire [Shoggoth] business is inside your head" as you so eloquently put, primarily because "Shoggoths" are a construct directly out of HP Lovecraft's head, with no basis in concrete, physical reality.

For those systems which come as a result of splitting due to trauma, the forms that people take don't really have limits, save those of the imagination. If a dragon is what you think it takes to protect you, then a dragon is who will split from you to do so. Or a Shoggoth. Or so that theory goes. This doesn't seem to pertain to your situation.

What you seem to be describing is commonly referred to in occult circles as "the trap of sophistry." I would give you the same advice the Zen master gave to his disciple when the disciple had a glorious vision of the Buddha. "Learn to breath right, and it will go away."

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

That may or may not turn out to be relevant, but thanks. I'll keep it in mind.

[ex-khailitha846.livejournal.com]

"For those systems which come as a result of splitting due to trauma, the forms that people take don't really have limits, save those of the imagination."

I'm really curious about where you got this piece of information. Are you saying that there are limits to the forms of people in natural or non-trauma associated multiple systems?

I mean, I'm not sure I see the connection between trauma and the existence of rather fantastical creatures showing up in one's system.

????

Thanks!

Drew

[colligocarus.livejournal.com]

>Are you saying that there are limits to the forms of people in >natural or non-trauma associated multiple systems?

Natural : I don't know. I don't know enough about "natural multiplicity" to confirm or deny its existence, much less its character. I've read the available websites. That is the extent of my knowledge on the subject. In other words, it's primarily anecdotal. Perhaps someone will explain how natural groups of people inhabiting one body work. Logically, I would not expect these systems to contain "fantastic" creatures, because singletons normally do not have "fantastic" creatures residing within them.

Gateway : It logically follows that those groups of people using a body to access this world from a different one (be it another planet, galaxy, or dimension x) are limited in form by those people native to that world. Darth Vader should not logically be coming through a gate from Narnia, to use a fictitious example. Again, at this point my skeptical mind can neither confirm nor deny the existence of this sort of group in the majority of cases.

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

Natural multiples are those who don't appear to have a 'cause' or 'reason' for being multiple. They can be just as dysfunctional as any trauma-split system, just as a trauma-split group is capable of being 'functional' (defined as being able to care for themselves, hold down a job, and lead a life that's agreeable to everyone in the system (where possible)). It's all in how you deal with eachother, and the rest of the world.

Here's a counter-anecdote for you: The system I'm part of appears to have emerged without prompting, over a period of years. We're comfortable with eachother, for the most part, and are 'functional' in the sense used above. I don't have a particular form - I suspect I take the shape of the container, which happens to be a human body for the moment - but R is very clearly dragon-shaped, and has difficulty changing that even when she wants to.


Logically, I would not expect these systems to contain "fantastic" creatures, because singletons normally do not have "fantastic" creatures residing within them.
There's a large and vital otherkin community which would tend to indicate that this is false. The subcultures' defining feature is its members' belief that their mind/soul/whatever is that of a nonhuman (often 'fantastic') creature, and that they just happen to be in a human body. Most of them also happen to be singletons, like most of the general population.

Otherkin resources:
Wikipedia/Otherkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin)
One of many versions of the Otherkin FAQ (http://kinhost.org/res/Otherfaq.php)

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

"Logically, I would not expect these systems to contain "fantastic" creatures, because singletons normally do not have "fantastic" creatures residing within them."

Why compare natural multiples to singlets in this regard?

And: Try some Chinese or Native American folklore.

"Gateway : It logically follows that those groups of people using a body to access this world from a different one (be it another planet, galaxy, or dimension x) are limited in form by those people native to that world. Darth Vader should not logically be coming through a gate from Narnia, to use a fictitious example."

Right! But bear in mind that gateway systems don't all gate from just one place. We have only the one portal and everyone here is Laurad (with the exception of the human walk-ins like Andy) -- but sethrenn and atoa, among others, have gates to several dimensions or planets (atoa's website, http://www.bentspoons.com/Shaytar/gatefield.shtml, describes this more fully). While, to use your example, one wouldn't expect Darth Vader to gate through from a Narnia portal, someone could have a gateway that links to Narnia and another that links to the Star Wars galaxy.

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

There is at least one god, in one culture, which is based on fiction. The monkey king was originally a fictional character, but is treated as a legitimate mythological figure now. There are also those who would say that any mythological being doesn't have a basis in concrete physical reality. That all myth is fiction, or fable.

Within occult frameworks, the source of the inspiration is important to some, but not all. Lovecraft's works struck a chord in the psyches of many. It is an occult principle that the amount of energy focused onto an idea can be cumulative, depending on which system you are practicing. Among the ones to use the Cthulu mythos, especially among chaos magick circles, the idea of putting energy into a god, to make it real, or real enough to get the desired effect, is a mainstay. Part of the point of these practices, is to get these godforms, as they are sometimes called, to effect the world around you. In other words, you don't just make your own reality, you make your reality effect that of others. People have been working towards end with that particular mythos for a long time. Perhaps the shoggoth appearing is a construct of his own mind, or perhaps he's the payoff of someone else's work.

A good essay on the topic is Calling Cthulu:H.P. Lovecraft's Magick Realism, by Erik Davis (http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/callcth.html). It was my favorite essay when I was a practicing Chaote.

Whether or not he's a thoughtform, if he pulls his weight, both as a system member, and as a totem, why would he need to "go away"?

--Me

Correction:

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

A good essay on the topic is Calling Cthulu:H.P. Lovecraft's Magick Realism, by Erik Davis. It was my favorite essay when I was a practicing Chaote.

It was one of my favorites.

--Me

[ex-khailitha846.livejournal.com]

I'm curious what you mean by 'mucking about with totem magic'. Sounds like you're doing some shamanist work, maybe without guidance?

Without really knowing what happened, what you were working on, it's hard to guess at what's going on... but I'd like to present an alternate theory:

Perhaps the Shoggoth isn't another member of your system. You said you were doing totemic work, what if it is actually a totem animal, an animal spirit guide? According to some paths of shamanist teaching, one must first meet one's animal guides before being able to move through dreamtime, or non-ordinary reality, in safety. In addition, animal guides can be of assistance here in dealing with energetic type situations... issues of safety, helping with manifesting, etc.

And it seems important to note that the way we perceive a guide (or entity, or archetype depending on your views of alternate realities vs. inner worlds) is just the way we perceive them... not necessarily what they are at all. But in order to interact, we require them to have a shape that we can understand.

Have you talked to your Shoggoth yet? A common strategy is to ask anything you encounter point blank if it is a guide. It could be that it doesn't need to front and isn't a part of your system at all, but part of your support system. Sounds to me like you were asking for a totem animal and one showed up. That's not really so unusual.

(If it doesn't appear to be either a guide or a legitimate member of your system, you can always just send it away.)

Sending light... keep us posted... we're very curious as to how this turns out.

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you're doing some shamanist work, maybe without guidance?
Yes, and yes.
I picked up a book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580911161/qid=1125082846/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/102-8518783-5180159?v=glance&s=books) mentioned in one of the otherkin communities I frequent, mostly because it 'felt right', if that makes any sense. Read the first third, and tried some of the stuff it recommended to find ones' totem critter - minus the bits that looked hokey. I was really not expecting a response of any kind. (Have you heard the saying that 'the only true faith is faith in doubt'? I have a great deal of doubt, but not much faith.)


In order to interact, we require them to have a shape that we can understand.
That's interesing.. Now that I think about it, his form fits with my existing symbol-set in interesting ways.

Have you talked to your Shoggoth yet? A common strategy is to ask anything you encounter point blank if it is a guide.
I asked whether he had anything to teach me, when he first showed up. We had a nice conversation, since we were in 'his' environment.
I tried the point-blank question thing a moment ago, and the answer is 'yes'.
I've been referring to S as a system member since he seems to be always there, and generally doesn't act like he's planning to leave soon. He and Ar. can pass ideas back and forth as though they've been doing it for years - which may be the case, for all I know.

I appreciate the thought, and will probably write more about it.

[stealthdragon.livejournal.com]

Now that I think about it, follow-up posts would probably be off-topic in this community. I've friended you instead. No expectation of reciprocal friending. :)

DID

[(Anonymous)]

I was told I was M.P.D a few years ago, having seen the movie Sybill, I could not accept what MPS ment. Later a few years later i was told they had revised MPS and changed it to DID. When i was told what D.I.D ment, It felt right. Why i could not agree to mpd was because of Sybill. I could not understand how sybel spoke french after having been locked up in a closet, It's not possable, (my view). I do believe healing is possable, why do i believe, because what the mind can do, the mind can undo, with help obviosly and with time. Hello my name is Bill

Re: DID

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Bill, I don't know if you'll ever come back and see this, but if you keep watching this community, you will see that there are a lot of people who can't agree with the popular concept of Sybil, either (as opposed to the reality). I'm posting this for your benefit and also any other lurkers that happen by because I don't think it can be reiterated enough.

MPD was not "changed to" DID. MPD was removed and DID was added. DID is a completely different condition. If it works for you, that's fine. A lot of people on this community have DID.

Sybil was never locked up in a closet. If you read the book, you remember that she had a psychotic mother who abused her in bizarre ways, but she attended school and later university. She probably taught herself French out of books (we've got a singlet friend who's taught himself six languages out of books - it's not impossible), or learned it in high school like lots of people do.

Many impossible claims have been made for multiples, including that a self who is new to the front can have skills that were never learned by the body. It's a myth. We've discussed that on this community many times and you'll probably find references to it as you continue to read through.

You are welcome here and please ask any questions you have.

http://www.karitas.net/blackbirds/layman
http://www.dreamshore.net/amorpha/myths.html