(no subject)

[hexpiritus.livejournal.com]

Some questions, if I may:

1) I am confused as to the level of strong responses to my previous post containing the Hofstadter quote. Though I was expecting a lively discussion, there seemed to be a level of hostility or annoyance that I was not prepared for-- I may be mistaken, of course. In any case, was it the quote itself that aggravated people? Is quotes discouraged on this forum, or is only quotes directly pertaining to multiplicity alone allowed, and not quotes that may be indirectly related? Should I have stated my intentions concerning posting the quote in this community so as to have cleared up confusion before it began? Cata keeps claiming that we were being attacked somehow, but I find no firm, logical evidence of her assumption, and so would really like to get to the heart of the matter.

2) Though I have posted previously, albeit a while go, on the innerworkings of our system, it seems recent events and abilities within may have changed the appropriate identification of our processes-- at least for the purposes of such communities that require correct identification. We have always thought of ourselves as multiple/plural for two years, but the ability that's arisen where we integrate at will, and usually safely, to combine consciousness and skills, and then separate, may put us in the "median" category. I'd really like some feedback on the particular division with multiple and median.

3) My significant other, also a multiple, is stressed and alarmed that two of the entities within their system has walked out on them (let's call them the Elf-Star). A shaman-type woman claims that one of the entities that was once in the Elf-Star, which they just referred to as Phoenix, is now in her. Is that possible, that entities can walk out of one body and right into another?

Thanks for your patience.
-Stel of Hexpiritus

Comments

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Though I was expecting a lively discussion, there seemed to be a level of hostility or annoyance that I was not prepared for-- I may be mistaken, of course. In any case, was it the quote itself that aggravated people?

Want me to be totally honest? I think it was the quote. A lot of people here have been told things by well-meaning friends and family, along the lines of "but everyone has multiple personalities," "I'm a different person at home and at work," "everyone is a different person in different situations." That's true in a way, and William James wrote about it a hundred years ago and concluded that it's hard to say anyone really has a 'true' personality. I know that you didn't mean, when you posted it, to imply that this was all multiplicity really was, but there were some people who took it that way; probably a lot of them were remembering things they'd been told in the past.

We have always thought of ourselves as multiple/plural for two years, but the ability that's arisen where we integrate at will, and usually safely, to combine consciousness and skills, and then separate, may put us in the "median" category. I'd really like some feedback on the particular division with multiple and median.

IMO, fuzzy at best. Billy Milligan's group was able to integrate for a short time, but when they got into a situation where a certain person's skills were needed, they all spontaneously differentiated back out again. Shirley Mason's (Sybil) integration only lasted a few years, according to those who knew her well. There have been times in our life when we had to mush several people together for the sake of presenting a consistent front to everyone around us. I think one of the problems with the median category is that a lot of people experience being "not quite multiple" or "sometimes multiple and sometimes not," and that can manifest in a lot of different ways. There seems to be a fairly broad area where calling oneself multiple or median just comes down to personal choice.

A shaman-type woman claims that one of the entities that was once in the Elf-Star, which they just referred to as Phoenix, is now in her. Is that possible, that entities can walk out of one body and right into another?

Well, in the days of Spiritualism it was certainly thought they could. Back then, a lot of people believed that multiples were people hosting outside spirits in their body, and a lot of mediums (or people who said they were mediums, anyway-- this is all hearsay, I certainly can't vouch that this was actually what was going on) had spirits who moved in and lived full-time with them. A lot of mediumship traditions hold that channeled entities can migrate from body to body.

Although... I'm not sure whether I'd trust this person, necessarily. I've seen at least one instance of someone claiming that a person from another's system had moved into theirs, for blatantly manipulative purposes. You describe her as 'a shaman-type woman'-- the problem is that a lot of people who claim to be shamans or to be practicing shamanic traditions really aren't; they may be sincerely misguided and think they're practicing real shamanism when they're not, or they may be outright frauds in it for the money.

[pthalo]

Once, I asked someone from my religious community (who doesn't know I'm part of a multiple system) what he thought of people who have more than one soul. And he said "you mean multiple personalities, don't you? This is a disorder. You see, everyone has multiple personalities from time to time. They see an issue and they can't decide what to do, part of them says "do it!" and the other part says "do something else!" and so they split for a time. But then they make the decision and are back to being one person again. It becomes a disorder when the person is split all the time and this is unhealthy."

So I didn't say anything to that and he still doesn't know we're plural. WE are out on a "need to know" basis and lots of people simply don't need to know.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

That's better than some of the religious writings I've seen where multiple personality is thought to be caused by "an excess of personality", by which they mean an excess of ego, (caused by Satan, natch) which attracts demons who become part of the.. blah blah blah.

[pthalo]

I was once told by a Christian nurse while in a residentail treatment center that I cut myself because I'm possessed by demons (Mark 5). I said no, I cut myself because I was abused. She said abuse weakens the spirit and that's how the demons got in.

That kind of turned me off to Christianity at the time.

I don't think there is any writings in my religion on multiples. I haven't found any. So I think this was just this person's opinion and not something official.

[inshadowhiding.livejournal.com]

* pictures a senaero *

*nurse driod * "... you cut yourself due to the presence of demons!"
* "victem" * "Yeap, and your one of them"

such a pity this would have you locked up more * sigh*

[echoesnspectres.livejournal.com]

I'm morbidly curious about who said that, and when. (Also is this the only nonsense they wrote or were they confused about other subjects as well? Some people spout so much [uh, blah-dee-blah, not-nice word] that it would be ridiculous to take their opinion on anything seriously. But I may be too optimistic there.)

- Teh Excessive Ego Demon aargghh I will eat your soul!

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

This was in an article that was up on line for a long time, about how the mental health system's belief in and perpetuation of the concept of multiple personality was a heresy. The idea was that by focusing on the abuse histories of people with multiple personalities, by sympathizing with them, helping them deal with abuse-related issues and integrating their personalities, doctors were encouraging these people to cultivate their already excessive egos. I can't find the article anymore, it was some Amen-Hallelujah thing.

Oh, and how about this:
MPD Is A Sin (http://www.nccg.org/deliverance/mpd/MPD03.html)

There's tons of... fertilizer out there.

[pengke.livejournal.com]

Ok, wait, if the 'sinful' multiple system was integrated, how could they make a group decision to unintegrate?

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Dealing with abuse issues cultivates the ego? I always thought that people who'd been abused generally had problems with self-image; or is it one of those 'suffering/pain is good for you' deals?

[echoesnspectres.livejournal.com]

Amen on the fertilizer. Looks like that website spouts a lot of reli-sh*t on other subjects as well. (Which I suppose is comforting in a way.)

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

the hell did I just read? o.O

ugh I feel ill... :/

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

This isn't it, but it's very close:

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq82.html

[effrenata.livejournal.com]

This guy seems to link almost everything to narcissism, including autism.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

And then there's always this:
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/mpd.html

Kai tried to find that earlier, but couldn't remember what it was called.

[echoesnspectres.livejournal.com]

This is their lack of knowledge on multiplicity coming together with their moral judgment on having a chronically divided will, which is totally different from having a divided mind or several minds. Also, notice the "parts" talk again. And being ambivalent about something is splitting? I must be in so many parts right now, as I still haven't figured out how to deal with our Bookcase Categorization Disaster. :P

[pthalo]

Yeah, my reaction to that was a silent "you have no idea what you're talking about."