Thank you

[battyvamp.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who responded and are willing to help. I was wrong about the due date, It is June 23rd...not the 10th. I was thinking it was because it is actually the 10th week of class. That's where the 10 came from. Sorry...

My teacher said I could do this anyway I wanted to. I was thinking of doing a factual, meaning what the professionals say it is, and then speak about people who are actually Plural. I do not know. This is the first time I have had to do something like this since I was in high school, over 10 years ago.

If anyone has any ideas, that would great.

I just don't know how to ask my questions...I don't want to be offensive or anything....There is so much to know and learn that it is almost daunting. Like my Husband, he doesn't have a higherarchy(sp?) like most other's that I have spoken to. Is that normal? Should he have one?

I have to figure out what I want to focus on...and that's hard. So please bear with me as I fumble through this.

This is not just for class though...it is for me and my husband as well. To help bring understanding to us, to help prepare us if something else may happen in the system.

Feel free to friend me or msg me, info is in my bio....I am at school right now, otherwise I would be adding and talking to everyone who is willing to help.

EDIT:
Thank you again everyone.
I did not expect to get so many comments.
I just hope noone is offended.
Also everything that has been said and debated here has been real helpful. I am working on some questions to post, or send via whatever.....It will take me a small amount of time to do it....

Brain doesn't always want to focus on what I want it to, and it tends to wander... But I really appreciate everything everyone has said and done so far....

BV

Comments

[shandra.livejournal.com]

To make a blanket statement: there is no normal.

However his system works is fine, as long as it works for him and you can live with it.

To be direct with you I don't think what you'll learn for a 10-15 minute presentation is likely to help your marriage too much, or help you understand his system any better than you will just by listening to him and being present with him. His system is the expert on his system.

But it may make you feel more connected with his reality and that's a cool thing... I'd just warn that you should look out for getting
that "medical student" complex where you think he has to have all the problems/issues/concerns everyone else does - he doesn't!

For your presentation that's a lot of what you have to figure out, what kind of approach you want to take. One approach would be to split up the time and spend maybe 3-4 minutes on traditional definitions, and then the rest of your time on what you learn from interviews, or alternate viewpoints. You could do that narratively like "When I asked this question, I was surprised to learn this" if it's an informal presentation.

10-15 minutes is not a whole lot of time, so keep that in mind. Also decide if you want questions to be a part of your time or not.

General presentation tips are everywhere. I find for myself if I'm nervous about one it's key to run through it with a stopwatch pretty early (not just the night before) so I can see where holes are in my information, and also so I feel really comfortable with it before presenting. Good luck!

[battyvamp.livejournal.com]

Well the presentation is for school....but I won't speak about everything I learn in class...this is to help both Mike and I..with understanding what is happening to him....

As for the medical student complex....I am a medical student....but I don't think he has to have all the problems and concerns that everyone else has. Each person is unique and different...so what happens to one person doesn't mean it is going to happen to everyone else. But at least learning about how other people work, and are handling this, will help us to know what to expect...or be able to explain what's going on if someone had gone through a similar thing....it is just a basicness for us to understand.

The presentation can go longer then the 15 minutes...it is pretty much just a minimum time limit....

and thank you.

[shandra.livejournal.com]

I think that it's important to recognize that each person is unique and different - but here's a thought for you about the next part of your sentence - "so what happens to one person doesn't mean it is going to happen to everyone else."

Living multiple isn't so much about what happens to one person. In terms of dealing with abuse stuff, sure, "what happened to J, and C. and F" is important.

But living as a multiple system is more about "who is everyone and how are they going to get along." In that context it makes some sense to read about other people's experience - same way that when people get married they might read relationship books to see what works for them - but many things won't actually apply. Ultimately it's just about those people living that life.

That perspective is really different from a medical model, where you have to put together symptoms, diagnose a condition, and then treat things. But in my experience, multiples who seek a "cure" for their condition ultimately end up in a very bad place. So I would encourage you as much as possible to step out of your professional role when you are being a partner to your husband - whoever in his system that is - and a roomate or friend to the others. :)

Hope the presentation goes well.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

Everyone has to learm terms and such things somewhere. I doubt you'll offend anyone, it's not like you're out to piss people off.

Every system works in its own way. If it works, there's no real reason to question it.


The factual vs reality thing seems a good idea to me.

[aliasalixx.livejournal.com]

We're still finding people here, so we haven't set up a hierarchy yet. I guess Alixx is technically in charge tho.

-Rana

[battyvamp.livejournal.com]

We are still finding people in Mike....his 4th just showed up last week during a crisis....so we don't know how many more he may have. It used to be Mike, the primary in charge....but now it looks to be like the 3rd is now in most control...Allen....

It's very weird....heh

[aliasalixx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we're still finding people here too. I don't know where everyone's been hiding, our house isn't that big!

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

What do you mean exactly when you say "hierarchy"? Do you mean who uses the body the most out here in the physical? Or do you mean who does what while not using the body?

[battyvamp.livejournal.com]

I think it is the wrong word...but the only one I could think of. I mean like how...please don't get mad, like how crystalhellion is, how she has an ISH, protectors, and so on.....that make any sense?

[battyvamp.livejournal.com]

sorry for got to add....

or if your body even uses a heirarchy.....how does the body cope? that sort of thing

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

not sure if we use a hierarchy in the way that you mean.. and how does the body cope for what? are you thinking that we're broken and falling apart and can't function unless we have a dr telling us what to do?

how does your body cope?

-kas

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

and I'm not mad or anything.. I'm just wondering.. because it can feel a little weird for someone who knows that we're a multiple group to ask how we cope.. you have a single mind, correct? how do you cope with only having yourself and nobody else there all the time to talk with? or be your friend or family? and I'm not meaning just others out here in the physical.. because we have that too.. if it was just me, then it would be okay to ask me how I would cope.. because I think if it were only me, then I'd probably freak out and have a breakdown or something.. but that's just me..

-kas

[battyvamp.livejournal.com]

In fact I do not know if I have a single mind or not.

I was talking to someone online the other day and the said that it is possible for me to be multiple without even knowing it. That it is entirely possible to exist as a plural, and each inner, seamlessly switching without anyone knowing....not even me....or primary..or whatever....I do not know....

Fact is, I do not cope. The "mood swings" and paranoia is getting worse...

and by coping...I meant as in how your dealing with other's living inside your mind and body...how do handle it....


(I knew I would fuck this up :~( )

[crystalhellion.livejournal.com]

The simple fact is.... we put up with it, it's all we can do. They have a reason for being there, after all.

As for you, it's entirely possible that you could be multiple, although I haven't seen any distinct evidence of switching in you. The moodswings aren't a dead sign that you could be multiple, though... the stereotype of "an angry one", "a smart one", etc.... just that: stereotypes. If we're angry, don't assume it's me. If we're happy, don't assume it's Rini. If we're depressed, don't assume it's Melissa. We have the full range of emotions available to us, at least, the ones who can express emotion at all do.

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

We wouldn't force or try to convince someone that they are Multiple. We've read that therapists sometimes do that to their patients; nudge them along so their "symptoms" fit a criteria that they might want them to. Most people in a Multiple group are more than just moodswings and strong emotions.

[crystalhellion.livejournal.com]

^ that was me, but due to some shuffling of userpics, the pic for that comment changed.

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

nothing's been fucked up.. and if you were Multiple, I honestly think you would know.. of course some people would say that it's possible to be Multiple and not know because you would have memory loss or whatever.. but if that's the case too, I wouldn't worry about if you're Multiple unless you had some real reason to believe that you were..

it's like when someone tells their dr that there are other people sharing their body and the dr comes back and tells them that this means they had to be abused in childhood, for that's the only way one gets broken up into such pieces.. just because someone is Multiple, does not mean they were abused.. just for instance..

okay, I get what you mean.. well, I see this body as a tool to function in this world.. not sure how the others view it.. technically, it's not just my body, but it belongs to whichever of us is using it or it belongs to all of us.. kinda like the family car, you know?

the main thing that we have trouble with is not enough hours in the day for everyone to do the things out here that they may want to.. that can be frustrating.. I'd have to say that is one of our biggest problems..

-kas & some

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

That it is entirely possible to exist as a plural, and each inner, seamlessly switching without anyone knowing....not even me....or primary..or whatever....I do not know....

I believe that for some people, the stereotypical Sybil-like model of the frontrunner losing time and not knowing what's going on until someone outside the body helps them put the clues together is a valid description, but most people have at least some idea, even if their memory isn't perfect-- feelings or thoughts that aren't quite their own, internal 'voices' keeping up conversations with them or each other (not the same as an auditory hallucination, although doctors frequently don't bother to make the distinction).

Mood swings can have a lot of causes. What is your paranoia about? Sometimes paranoia is excessive, but sometimes it can be just an extreme extension of valid everyday concerns, like financial matters.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Coping: To us, this is natural. It's like having a family around, or living in a neighborhood, a city, a country, a world.

Even some trauma-splitting plural groups will tell you it is natural to them now and they are very comfortable. (Here's what House of the Moon said about it: http://astraeasweb.net/plural/moon.html)

"In fact I do not know if I have a single mind or not": It is possible for a singlet to have mood swings and paranoia and still be a singlet. Living with a plural spouse, it's no wonder you're checking yourself out -- we've had friends do the same.

The description you give of being multiple and totally unaware is not unheard of, but usually there's an indication that something is going on -- I don't mean "clothes in the closet that you didn't buy" or even "hearing voices". I'm talking about the feeling of presences. Some groups really do keep a single frontrunner isolated and unaware of the rest of the gang -- firewheelvortex charmingly calls it being a "mushroom" -- but this can only go on for so long before the mushroom person starts getting suspicious. The so-called memory gaps (actually loss of continuity) between people in a system are not necessarily as seamless as they might appear.

In any event, it is for you to decide what your experience is, as you know.

[shatterstorm.livejournal.com]

We're trauma-born and we find being plural preferable. No integration plans here.

Our old front was in denial about us for years, but we wanted her to be. She did have this theory that she was plural under stress but went back to being one when things calmed down. It was kinda cute.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Sure-- some people in here have played with a theory that we were born single, but other people soon moved in to occupy the body for whatever reason. Even if we didn't start that way, it's natural to us now.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Well, all you could really say would be that crystalhellion's operating system has some features that appear to correspond to some of those cited in the literature. Most of the literature was written by singlet therapists, not by multiples. Most of it was their interpretation of multiplicity based only on their clients and their colleagues' clients. That is, a handful of multiples compared to the overall multiple population. Very little in the way of scientific studies or statistical analyses has ever been done on multiples.

The clients might not have described their people and operations in those terms. They might not even have had an ISH or protectors, but doctors such as Frank Putnam, Colin Ross, etc., may have used those terms to describe people in their clients' groups whom they perceived as fulfilling those roles.

[sexylittleone.livejournal.com]

I don't entirely agree w/you about saying that b/c its interpretations made by singlets that their interpretations may not be entirely valid (at least thats how I read what you said above).

How often do doctors discuss cancers or diseases they have no first hand knowledge of? Why do so many multiples consider a singlets perspective on a system or their interpretation to be less valid or less informed than say a doctor of medicine whos never had malaria yet treats it & empathizes with the patients suffering and says they can understand to a degree what the patient is experiencing? Just because this is all in our heads doesn't mean there arent' a great many who can't wrap their worldview around our realitys.

Adriana

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Possibly because most of the singlet doctors who came up with these theories operated with a definite agenda-- for some of them, it was a well-intentioned agenda, like trying to prove that children were sexually abused, but the fact was that they tended to interpret everything in light of their agenda, making connections which might not be valid.

Besides that, though, a lot of plurals feel that to a certain degree, singlet doctors telling multiples what multiplicity is is like white people telling black people what being black is about, or men telling women what being a woman is about. It's not that it's an evil or malicious thing to do. It's just that you're talking about not just a set of symptoms, characteristics or traits, but something that deeply affects how you experience the world. There's a difference between recognising those traits and understanding what it feels like from the inside out.

(I have also heard this complaint from medical patients, who felt that doctors didn't take their symptoms seriously enough, and expressed the opinion that they were clueless about what it was really like because they had never experienced the disease in question. Not that I'm comparing multiplicity to a disease; just that medical patients also complain that doctors who haven't experienced their conditions can't really sympathize with them.)

You can understand a great deal if you take the time to listen; however, unless you've actually lived it, you won't understand it 100%; the real experts will always be those who live it from day to day. The problem with guys like Putnam and Ross was that they didn't listen to the patients enough; they were too interested in their own agendas.

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

We have militia and military camps. We also have other defenses for protection if we needed it. An ISH is an inner self helper? Is this someone that teaches others? If so, then Jenilee may be one like that. She is a dean at our main school.

[crystalhellion.livejournal.com]

The ISH in our system tends to be more like the person in the basement that no one knows exists, staring at monitors and keeping it all working right, only coming out when necessary.

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

well, at the Mansion, there are a bunch of computers in the lower levels.. so I guess the computers would keep things running.. but that's just at the Mansion.. there are a whole bunch of other places too.. there's no way that just one person could be responsible for keeping all of Kasiya functioning.. it'd be impossible.. it'd be like having just one person to keep this planet Earth functional.. but maybe for smaller groups it might be possible to have a single person do those things.. yeah..

also, if we had someone like that, one person that was responsible for keeping "things" running, we'd sure as hell know who it was.. I wouldn't feel comfortable not knowing who was doing things behind the curtains, you know? -kas

[crystalhellion.livejournal.com]

For a group that large, I imagine it would be impossible for me to keep up, but I can handle this system.... as long as it doesn't get much larger.

And someone has to tell the computers what to do from time to time. :P

Actually, everyone in here knows I'm around, I'm in the system bios... I just don't come out often at all.

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

actually, our computers are run by an AI via a connection to a space station.. but that's another story.. ;)

but our Mansion computers don't run our group functions.. they just control the lighting in the Mansion, or the security systems, or the devices in the infirmary, and other areas in and around the Mansion.. -kas

[kasiya-system.livejournal.com]

and again.. I'm definitely not saying that one way is better than others.. or anything like that.. only that we don't have one person with just one job and not doing anything else.. like for instance, your inner helper, does he/she ever take a break and maybe go for a walk or get ice cream or anything? or are they like a robot who never leaves their spot? I've always wondered about those within a group who had certain titles and if they ever did other things other than what they were "supposed" to do.. just curious..

-kas

[crystalhellion.livejournal.com]

Celeste never required breaks when she was the ISH. Then again... she's a sentient machine. As for me... I don't tend to leave my little spot, either, except for brief excursions into the others' inner worlds. Like I said... fronting's not my thing. I only do it to explain myself when the others can't, or in times of extreme crisis.

[crystalhellion.livejournal.com]

It is true, our system somewhat corresponds to some texts on the subject... however, we have all this because it helps the system to run effectively, especially considering that there are two children and two teenagers in a nine-person system now. Considering this, guardians, as well as an ISH, are necessary.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

*points to what shandra said*

You might be able to come up with some ideas on what to ask by looking at some of the questions presented in FAQs online.

http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/faq.shtml
http://www.dreamshore.net/amorpha/faq.html
http://kasiya.homestead.com/faq.html

You could ask every multiple you interview questions like "Do you know what the others in your group are thinking?" or "How can an outsider recognize a switch?" and get a variety of answers -- including different answers from people in the same group.

No two systems are exactly alike. This is why you shouldn't worry if your husband&'s operating system isn't exactly like someone else's ("hierarchy", etc. We don't run on a hierarchy, for example.)

The questions you should choose depend on how you'll be tailoring your presentation to fit the focus of the class. What is "Strategies for Success" anyway? Who is your audience, and how will hearing about multiplicity benefit them? What is the most important fact they need to hear?

[zenboiuke.livejournal.com]

As long as they are asked from a place of respect & genuine desire to understand, there are no offensive questions ^_^ You can ask us anything.

~Kier

[pthalo]

you can ask us too. pthalogreen at livejournal dot com.

As for heirarchy? I don't really know. We try not pidgeonhole ourselves but I'm the main front if that's what you mean. As for protectors, I'm sure anyone could assume a protecting role if they needed to. The Little One sometimes assumes she needs to when really we don't need protecting and that can cause problems. Since she's my kid (she calls me mommy), I'd rather be the one protecting her. But we're working on that. Everyone contributes in their own ways, etc.

[pengke.livejournal.com]

Why do you think of the body as being a person?

Why do you think of the body as being a person?

[littlebus.livejournal.com]

Because most of the time one body = one person inside.

Not all the time, obviously, but most of the time. It's an easy stereotype to fall into. And one I'm having to break myself of. My boyfriend and girlfriend share a physical body (there are only the two of them in there). The past 6 months have been a learning experience, for all three of us.