Multiplicity

We can easily imagine working it out that way. Unfortunately, the world is just not ready to accept the idea of a multiple being a competent businessperson, so we can see the validity of one person having total control.

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kangetsuhime.livejournal.com

Both myself and Lu want to do the course we're going to be doing, so I hope we won't have many problems. Chloe wouldn't interfere in that. We all tend to work together thank goodness.

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You're so fortunate to work together!

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shandra.livejournal.com

We aren't currently getting a degree but we handle a professional job and have taken classes.

I think it's a really good idea to get everyone possible on board with your goal, whether it's "please support me" or "hey this will mean better goodies for all!" We have a long standing tradition that when we're in school, for every week of classes attended, we get a treat - an hour at the favourite bookshop; an ice cream, whatever. It's a bit manipulative but it does give the idea that rewards are shared as well as work. :-)

I'd distinguish, too, between behaviours that really are flaky (not showing up for class) and behaviours that are annoying but still get you where you want to go (showing up for class flamboyantly dressed and doodling on your private notes). Sometimes a little freedom goes a long way. In our classes we have made comments to each other on our notes, and I usually distract the kids with a "doodle page" if needed. Some scans of that are actually on our (woefully out of date) site: http://www.multiplicity.ca/essays/handwriting.php

I also think it's important to find some balance in your schedule so that people have some free time that they can count on - whether that's Friday night or Sunday afternoon or whatever. The trick for us there is "count on" - it's sacred time for them, so that they then can respect the study hours.

We actually write these things in as commitments to each other on our calendar (as well as class prep time, etc.). Otherwise people tend to get resentful and then of course it *always* comes to a head just before an exam or something like that. :)

Also this is just what we've found - in the past we were flamboyant procrastinators and then pulled off brilliance at the last moment (or not :)). That model just doesn't work for us any more - making regular study time and not getting into where all-nighters are necessary has been key in both work and school. It's possibly that in the past that kind of panic was needed to focus, but having a more regular, smooth schedule without the highs & lows seems to keep us more on track.

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I very much enjoyed the page with all the different handwritings. Alas, it's been ten years since we've done that ourselves, as now we're always typing. -Laurelin

In school it will be different, eh? We will be forced to write legibly. -John

It is hard to know how to bribe or offer treats to most of the younger people. Laurelin is emminently bribable..bunny figurines and spring dresses..but there are several of us who are out so infrequently, that I dare say they've never even read a book on their own, or had time to research about personal interests.(morpho) We've always had such an overwhelming fear of our personal safety, in the sense of being caught at being multiple and somehow being sent to the hospital again, that our time hasn't been divided up very equally.

Clearly it must be worked on if we are all to pull together, though. It would also help in terms of us caring about school, if we could all present equal accents, tones and inflections of speech. That way, we could all pass as the same person. If only we could manage to pass as one person, I'd be very interested in going to school.

Also, in my case, I'm out so little, that when I do come out, I'm almost in a trance- so overwhelmed am I at being out as myself. -John

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shandra.livejournal.com

It's hard if people don't get time, but sometimes it does work out that way.

It depends on your programme, but we don't find the need to present singularly in classes as long as people are there doing the work & not messing about.

Obviously something like a counselling workshop would need something like that, but the straight lectures - eh. Who cares if you present singularly? I say that just because I think if you set your standards too high it may be that much harder.

There's no university provost following you around making sure you're not someone else... and in fact most students display varying levels of craziness anyway. :)

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zaecus.livejournal.com

We've just become a bit more autocratic and inflexible about the "don't do anything that leaves lingering effects" guideline.

I can't just give upno matter what's going on with me psychologically or emotionally, and Jacob doesn't get to use the vocal chords or arms when someone has turned him into a white hot ball of rage. It makes us look for some creative solutions.

I keep expecting one of the people we interact with on campus to get tired of dealing with us and things to unravel, though.

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It's very wise to not let people who are a white hot ball of rage have use of the body. I used to do that, and the only reason it wasn't a total disaster was that we were in high school. I remember lifting this rather porcine preppy boy up by the collar after he was teasing- how incongruous it must have seemed, for this mousy girl who ordinarily just took any manner of abuse, to collar and threaten someone! I wouldn't do that anymore..I don't think. -John

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saturniakitty.livejournal.com

G and I are the only ones interested in getting our degree, and the rest just stay out of the way (or complain loudly that they're bored) when we're doing work.

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That makes sense..I could see people who aren't interested in school just staying out of the way, rather than sweeping us off somewhere.

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spookshow-girl.livejournal.com

We assign classes. However, this doesn't mean noone else is present, or that they are completely at the forefront. Memory can get fudgy sometimes, so we try to make sure that the person who is assigned the class is at least somewhat present during the class in order to keep a clear thread.

This has varying degress of sucess.

This is of course, our second run at college. The first time we were not co-aware, although there are indicators of who was doing what when.

School has always had a problem with keeping our attention. Rather than having completely irresponsible and responsible people, we have phases where one is able to handle responsibilities for a time better than others. This isn't constant however; we have a habit of pushing ourselves too hard, and it tends to be a matter of which one of us is not currently burning the candle at both ends.

I maintain that we are not workaholics, as we have been accused of being, repeatedly.

--Me

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we have some damn fudgy memory as well. Leave it to us to have it written down in our neurological evaluation that I 'seem incapable of learning', even with this ridiculously high verbal IQ, or something like that.

this is something like our fifth run at college.

hannie, m.

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We've had a few people tell us that we seem to be incapable of listening to anything that's said to us. I think it's mostly to do with our distractibility/sensory issues, though.

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When we started our degree, years ago now, we had little communication and the concept of cooperation was a distant memory, let alone community. I'm still not sure how we managed to make it to most of our classes. Having a friend that took most of the same classes together helped, as we would wander off to class together, so that at least got us there. Maintaining awareness could be difficult, especially with those boring monotone lecturers that makeit difficult not to tune out. I don't know how many times I left lecturers with notes of pretty little flowers instead of anything productive.

Finally swallowing our pride and getting help from Disability Services helped. But the thing that worked the best we found was developing our own communication skills and learning to work together. For instance we would let Mouse sit and watch the ducks on campus but not when we were rushing off to lectures. She didn't believe us at first when we told her that once a day during one of our breaks she would have at least 30 minutes to watch the ducks all to herself. I can't say I blamed her for being disbelieving, we hadn't been the best until then at letting other people take time for themselves, especially in public, appearances seemed of paramount importance back then. But we kept our word, and for the first month rain or sun we would watch the ducks. After a while, I think when she worked out we wouldn't go back on our word the duck watching turned out to be a once a week thing. Now she tends to ask if we have time for her to enjoy her ducks and we say yes or no depending on our schedule. The reason for this long and probably boring paragraph is twofold. One I believe you have to allow those that aren't really interested in school to have something of their own. I don't believe you can say, this is important to me, so you have to do it and then not let others do what is important to them. The The second part is to keep your word, if you say, I have to have this hour to go to a lecture but afterwards you can do whatever, then after the lecture you can't change your mind.

There are a lot of us that don't give a damn about our education. Most just don't bother paying attention to this world when we are at school. One turns up to flirt with Lex the Coffee Man, and drink coffee, some hoave friends on campus, but most just go about their own lives not paying much attention. When we picked our papers we did get together, those that were even slightly interested in getting our post grad degree and picked the papers that would be of the most interest to the majority of us. Friday is still a little peeved at having to give up her computer science papers, but agreed to the proposal of going for post grad in Education. She takes time to do personal learning during the evnings or weekends. But most people that pay attention to our life in this world are supportive of our education, we all know it is soemthing we not only want to do, but that it will be of benefit to all in the long run. As long as no one else gets penalised, losing their time or interests it seems to run smoothly. There are hiccups along the road, but that's normal. Everyone misses a class every now and again,

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Very interesting. I wonder if that letting go of appearances having paramount importance paved the way for better communication. I'll have to think very hard about that one, and take it to heart.

So you're in Education too? I think that will be the degree we end up going for, but it does bring up a lot of issues. Who wants to be out in the limelight, teaching children, when you're liable to switch voices, personalities and demeanors? Who wants to be in front of children if you're not switching, but are acting all autistic, not making eye contact in order to concentrate on her thoughts, or having profound social naivete? - morpho

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WE actually don't want to teach children, we dropped out of teacher's college early on when we realised teaching children wasn't our thing. NOt because of our multiplicity, the job itself didn't really suit anyone here although a few of us love education. We woudl like to get into research, and perhaps become a lecturer. We aren't that worried about switching as it, for us is, or can be a conscious activity. When we don't have responsibilities who runs is very casual but when there are responsibilities such as jobs we work well to make sure who ever is around is appropriate.

As for keeping up appearances, well for us it was a big deal in developing the sense of community we have now. Also having issues with hyper-viligance we had to realise that not everyone in the world notices everything about everyone. We came to realise most people are too wrapped up in their own lives to even notice us.

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It does sound like there is so much more freedom in research. I wish we had a more research-oriented brain, as it's more challenging work.

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shandra.livejournal.com

I wonder if that letting go of appearances having paramount importance paved the way for better communication.

I should have read down. :) This has been spectacularly true for us. As the Shire said somewhere, most people don't really notice, at least not to any degree that is terrible.

I do agree with you that if you want to be a teacher you'll have to work it out (we taught for a few years) - but part of getting to there may be spending some of your education time being your individual selves, so that you each have an opportunity to develop whatever skills you need to present in a way that will work for you and your students.

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It'll be tricky..we'll have to really use that time in school to work out our presentation skills. There is a general consensus that we should teach creative arts or humanities, and those of us who are more artistic are also much lower on the maturity scale. If they want to go up front, they're going to have to use this time to catch up.

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We've learned that most people have no clue at all when it comes to recognising multiples. If they've heard of the idea at all they're thinking Hollywood style switches with thick accents and dramatic body language or demonic possesion. :P We have friends who are professional counselors who haven't spotted us.

We've noticed that selves-aware multiples seem pretty good at spotting one another. It makes for some really interesting conversations until everyone is comfortable. ;) We did a little gentle education with one of our friends who we expect is a multiple but isn't selves-aware currently. He lost time and we discussed some of the possible causes. The lost time involved about 1 1/2 hours where he'd done some driving and apparently bought and eaten fast food.

As long as you don't have someone with a strong accent or seriously unusual body language front unfiltered, in our experience most people just assume you're a little more moody, expressive, absentminded, or eccentric than the average joe.

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Hell even if you have strong accent changes people don't seem to notice. We have a friend who is multiple and the people in that system have very broad and definite accents. No one in her life ever questioned it, all they seemed to say was oh that's so cute.

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I'm shocked! Then again, why would that suprise me..most people aren't very observant or imaginative. With my southern accent, at least I can say, 'my (must be careful not to say "our") mother is from North Carolina. Of course, we don't mention that the bitch only moved down there after we grew up, and we've only been down there like, two times.. -hannie

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I think she gets away with it because she grew up in London, so the irish and cockney accents people just put down to that, although the majoirty of the time those accents aren't around. Still I think most people are more likely to use any explanation other than multiplicity, from my expereince multiplicity is hardly even in people's awareness.

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If you have a diagnosis of autism, you can probably also get the disability services at your school-- if they have any, though most schools do nowadays-- to help you out. They might be able, for instance, to get your instructors to tape-record lectures for you. We're permitted to take our exams in a separate room with extra time.

We try to assign classes sometimes too, although this doesn't always work out in practice. There are a few of us who are just not compatible with school in any way, shape or form, and we can't always switch on cue. The most important thing we found we could do was to be organised-- get a book that lets you keep an agenda for each day; write down everything important you need to do in it, from paying bills to homework. That way, if 'important' stuff doesn't always stick in the common memory banks, anyone can refer to the book to figure out what they need to do today.

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There is a disability services office at the school we are trying to get into, and I do intend to take advantage of it. Tape-recording lectures is an excellent idea, as is being able to go into an empty room for exams.

We..or whoever it is that has the illegible handwriting..write down EVERYTHING, listing things that normally one wouldn't even bother writing down. Sometimes there are sub-lists of lists, and so many things are written down that we forget to look at the lists in the first place. We're getting better, though.

How I wish I was as organized as my fiance, who has Asperger's Syndrome..he keeps his notes on tiny blank business cards, and writes notes to himself along with complex mathematical formulas and obscure technical ideas. His handwriting would require a microscope to be legible. But somehow he understands his system perfectly, and rarely forgets anything important.

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If the one that writes down everything is taking notes, have you considered taking a highlighter and going over those notes? Recording and sharing notes with other people both work great btw ;)

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We could do that. Whoever writes the almost illegible notes is going to have to write more neatly, though. Either that, or one of us with frighteningly flawless handwriting is going to have to come up front, and learn to take notes quickly.

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Our diagnosis is Asperger's. Still haven't quite figured out the art of keeping or writing notes, though. It took us until sophomore year of high school to learn how to write notes in class (that is, on the subject material). I'm the one who's a real bug on writing things down because it seems that otherwise, we have no way of keeping ourselves organised or remembering what we need to do.

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I didn't know your (in the group sense) diagnosis was Asperger's. There certainly seems to be quite a few systems with that diagnosis..the discussion pops up occasionally in the Asperger's community also. I would really be interested to know the reason, which I'm sure is neurological. I have my own theories about why we are the way we are, but I think it would be an error to jump to the assumption that our neurological reasons for being are shared by other systems. -morpho

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I didn't know your (in the group sense) diagnosis was Asperger's. There certainly seems to be quite a few systems with that diagnosis..the discussion pops up occasionally in the Asperger's community also. I would really be interested to know the reason, which I'm sure is neurological.

*nod* We seem to have more in common with most of the people we know labeled 'high-functioning autistics' than 'Asperger's,' but if you didn't have a speech delay in childhood they can only diagnose you with Asperger's, as I understand it.

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Even though Morpho and Roman didn't have speech delays that we are aware of (no one would have told us, because no one in our family would have noticed) we were still diagnosed with Autism. I think they took into account a significant social delay even at age three. These neurologists seemed to have highly specific definitions of Autism as apposed to Asperger's or NLD, but because it's not directly out of the DSM, some people would just consider it to be voodoo witchdoctor nonsense. Upshot- Morpho flaps, Roman is like a wild animal, we don't have a single obvious 'special subject'- I think behaviorally we just seemed more Autistic..maybe if you had gone to the same neurologists, you would have also been labeled autistic.

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I'm not really sure that there is a hard and fast Asperger's/Autism distinction, personally-- I think, generally, it's the same 'wiring' with effects in greater and lesser forms. It's true doctors have different standards-- speech delay is the distinction I hear being most often used; IMNSHO, it's a rather arbitrary criteria, because as others have pointed out, it's often impossible to pick the ones who had a speech delay from a group of 40-year-old autistic people.

Parents also vary widely in their willingness to have their children diagnosed-- at one end of the spectrum there are some who'll drag their kid from doctor to doctor until they get the diagnosis they want; at the other end, there are those who avoid psychologists/psychiatrists/neurologists completely, for whatever reason. Our birth family was closer to the latter category; it was considered shameful to have a 'child with a problem.'

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pleiades-rising.livejournal.com

Oi, it can get confusing sometimes, I know. I've always wanted to be a doctor, but Afiel is more into theology and literature and that sort of stuff. I wanted to go to a university for the whole of my four-year study before heading off to med school, whereas he wanted to do the first two years at a community college.

Went one semester to a university, but it caused too much conflict, so we dropped out and plan on starting the community college in the summer... as for our conflicting interests, I am going for med school while he takes the minor in some sort of philosophy... thing. We are lucky to only have three people in our system, with one of them an undecided child, or else it'd get pretty confusing. I'm guessing double majors and all that stuff X_x

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We've got two bachelor degrees. Several of us were interested in school, and for the ones who weren't, we arranged things so they have time to do what interests them.

There were some real tense times, like when one of our artists decided that she was going to paint TONIGHT and we were trying to study for a chemistry and a math exam the next day. She ended up getting half the evening to do her thing (we framed the painting, a lovely 3 x 2 black and white of a dragon) and we took a nice nap the next day after the tests.

Our notes from then are a fascinating mix of styles. And the doodles can be hilarious. Looking at them now we're very amused that our front at the time was in denial. Even though she'd "ask" the voices in her head during exams when she couldn't access the information or daydream and let her hand write out the answers. ;) We also had note-buddies, other people in the class that we'd share copies of notes with. Singletons miss writing down important stuff too.

We had a rule of not studying more than two hours without a break. This kept us sane. Pay attention to body care - food, drink, sleep, etc are very important.

Idianshire's tale with the ducks is a very powerful tool. Trust and respect among yourselves will get you everywhere. We'll do activities that we know will coax someone out when we can tell they're unhappy but they aren't communicating much - play a video game, go to the park, eat a favored food, that kind of thing. It is a way of reminding them that we care. And simple things, like stopping for a few moments on the way to a class to admire the oh-so-sexy motorcycle parked outside the building does wonders for making nice with some of the teens.

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It was a relief to see people writing about conflicting interests, that made the outcome of education different than it would have been.

We do have some really impossible differences to work out. We have girls in here who like children, but mostly in the sense of identifying as children themselves. We have a pack of bratty art-school girls (Roman, Cecily, Cole?) who only wanted to live in New York and be fine artists, and are pissed that we abandoned those goals. We have Morpho, who would have prefered to be a professor of comparative religions, except that she felt too autistic to pull it off. It's Morpho who was most attracted to the idea of being a Waldorf teacher, because of the emphasis on arts (a bone to throw to the art-school girls)and also on spirituality and a deep study of comparative religions. Unfortunately, I don't think we can pursue that, as we'd have to move in order to secure employment. We have a five year old Asperger's son, and moving would be quite detrimental to him at this point.

And then there's Hannie, who has been grousing for an hour now about Morpho claiming going back to school was her idea and that she, Hannie, would be cooperative. Hannie insists that any idea of bettering ourselves comes from her, as Morpho has the self-will of a sock puppet. However, she wouldn't have picked education in any sense, as she's impatient with children. SHE would have wanted to be a real-estate agent. Unfortunately, we couldn't allow that, as it's quite often that she isn't fronting, and the rest of us have absolutely no business acumen. I can see where she gets very hostile, living with a pack of disabled, dreamy, idealistic types. No wonder she wishes she could just bump us all off. (We love her just the same.)

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You know, if Hannie deals with the outside world often enough, something like running a small eBay business might work out well as a sideline while you all are in school. A small mail-order style gig can be done at home - don't know about your son, but one of my friends with young twins has found her kids love to "help" her open, wrap, and slap labels on packages with her eBay used clothes and toys business.

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That's quite an interesting idea. We'd have to make sure she got out very regularly, otherwise we might drop out of sight when we were supposed to mail something out, which would be extremely tacky.

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eide

i think quite a lot of retuners to education enjoy mixing with and acting more like older teens/youger twenties - may less at post-grad level but a bit of presenting as a teenager will probably be fine/unremarkable.
We are in very part time education and i agree with what others have said about gettuing eveyone to agree to co-operate and making some alterantive time/space for the people who aren't into eduation.
If there are a lot of returners on the course there will proabaly be some support around study skills etc as well as the disability-specific support

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It's true..school is probably the safest place to appear younger than you are, even somewhat at post-grad level. And we certainly will need disability-specific support.

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I'm still working things out so I'm not sure if what I'm saying here is 100% accurate. I don't have any control of who is out and who is not (which I'd like to learn if possible) but fortunately all my regulars are adults and relatively responsible.

(This explanation may get confusing, 'cause none of us have separate names - at this stage anyway). Initially we started a degree in Naturopathy (about 7 years ago now). We had to give that up due to bad health, but later began a bachelor of arts in creative writing (which we're still doing). Now as far as I can tell, it was one of us who badly wanted to do the naturopathy, and the rest of us were supportive of that because it seemed like a good career. When the health took a turn for the worse, we kept trying to struggle through it, until the one who'd originally wanted to do it was able to admit it was a lost cause.

Beginning the BA was a compromise, but all members are happy with it. It's an interest we all share. However, some members are better students than others, some tend to get distracted easily by the other stuff they want to do. As I can't control who's in and out, plus the recurring health problems, we all feel that our time to do the stuff we want is limited. THAT is probably our biggest problem with working together.

However, we now do our studies via correspondence and the internet and only part time (fortunately the university allows for this), so it's easier to get ahead and catch up when necessary. As long as the health stays stable we're managing pretty good on the whole.

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I don't know if this is common experience or not. As we've gotten better at communicating with one another and treating each other well, our body's health has dramatically improved. We've got some kind of lupus-like autoimmune issues that were becoming disabling. Now the only signs of it in our life are being sensitive to getting enough sleep, and taking our plaquenil and vitamins regularly. Our rheumatologist thinks it is a minor miracle. ;)

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it would be interesting to find out if this is common... how have you increased your communication?

that's wonderful that your health has improved so much... i can kinda sympathise with the rheumatological stuff... last year i had a scare with that kind of thing, which turned out to be a virus that mimiced the symptoms of arthritis... only lasted a few months, but was very painful... it was enough for me to feel a deep sympathy for people who suffer that kind of pain and disability constantly

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Leaving notes, lists, etc for one another. Having art supplies available for the ones into that. Journaling and being willing to share journal with each other. Paying attention when someone wants something and working with them, encouraging communication and sharing the front. Co-presence and communicating directly without having to use the outside have been strongly encouraged. We have a bunch of kids in our group and we've done a lot of work to make sure each one has at least one adult they feel comfortable going to when they're scared/ stressed/ confused. Focusing on finding solutions to our conflicts that satisfy everyone.

We also did run into at least one of us who has a knack for screwing with our immune system - when she's really pissed our body will have a horrid cold within a day or two. We've been working on finding better ways of communicating than that. :P

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do you have any tips on sharing the front? we can't do it consciously and would like to learn how

that's interesting about the immune system...i'm prone to allergies and odd reactions to things (that i could use previously quite safely) that come and go without explanation....i've been wondering if it's one of us who is sensitive and the rest who aren't

maybe she's really stressed when she gets like that? that can have an impact on the immune system for some people

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we can't do it consciously and would like to learn Hrmmm... some of us have always worked well together... but we've "coaxed" one another using favorite foods, art supplies, topics of shared interest. Some of us just plain don't share. Notes are good then. We've also used a pendulum or automatic writing. Spending effort opening up communications helps. When it happens spontaneously, use it - it becomes easier with practice. Sometimes we're like separate people speaking in a room, sometimes we're thinking and feeling what the others are.

Some of us do have different allergic and drug reactions. From the literature we've seen, that isn't unheard of among multiple groups. We've also known singletons who have allergies that change over time.

She's usually very stressed and angry when she's done it - although when we've gotten down to what's really motivating her it has been that she was trying to protect us by making us too sick to do something. She's been very willing to talk with us so she doesn't have to resort to that. One of the benefits of better communication is she gets more of the things she enjoys - she's one of the ones who gets a blast out of dressing up the body and we've been asking for her input when clothes shopping.

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