Multiplicity

Welcome! Glad to have you aboard. Ask all the questions you like.

"can the main personality be conscious while another personality is active (i.e. watching what's happening as if life was a movie, whether from a body or out of body standpoint)?"

Sure, we do what all the time.. co-consciousness, and co-presence. At any time, one or more of us may be actively using the body (co-running), while others are sitting back a little ways, observing what's going on and making comments, offering suggestions, etc. Like

whisperedones, we don't have a "main person", just a group of frontrunners.

It's a mistake to characterize singlets who experience a hidden observer as having "MPD". This is something that happens with a lot of writers and may start in early childhood. Instead of just experiencing life, you experience and observe. It's like, if you were filming a movie (like you said), you were using two cameras simultaneously. Charlotte Bronte talks about this as does Dawn Powell.

I have a hidden observer mechanism that has nothing to do with anybody in my system. It's what lets me stand back and gain perspective on a situation while I am participating in it, quite useful for me as an autistic and as a journalist. Not everyone in my group has that.

I think maybe the idea that multiples "split" may come from the fact that kids might develop a hidden observer, or notice one for the first time, after a traumatic event. Does this make them multiple? Maybe, and maybe not. I think the two things get confused, mostly by doctors.

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Yes, they can both be concious at once. We do this often.

Your friends are being silly. Is there someone else in your head? No? Then you're not multiple.

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elenbarathi.livejournal.com

Ummm, well... we don't "have MPD", we're people rather than "personalities", and none of us is "the main one". We're co-conscious pretty much all the time, except when one or two of us will "step back" in order to grant a little privacy (which can be hard to come by in a shared body) or if someone's just not interested in what's going on.

I sort of have a "hidden observer function" such as

ksol1460 describes, though I never really thought of it in those terms. Doesn't have anything to do with multiplicity as far as I know - I've always considered it as a "writer thing".

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Just to let you know MPD isn't used in the psychological field anymore. They call it DID (dissociative identity disorder) now.
As to what you've described, yes, it's quite possible to still be aware when an alter/personality/identity/whatever is front; however that's not neccessarily what is happening for you. It's quite possible that rather than dissociating yourself, you're dissociating from the world around you. That is the more common reason for the "watching my life on tv" you describe. It is possible that you do have DID, and are not aware of your others; however, most the time when people aren't aware of their DID, they blackout when their others front and have no memory whatsover.

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sethrenn.livejournal.com

We don't consider our multiplicity to be disordered because it doesn't cause us any impairment in our life, functioning, ability to deal with regular life circumstances, etc. I have certainly run into multiples whose system was in obvious chaos, but it's hard to put a point on whether the multiplicity itself is the problem, or things like lack of communication within the system.

As for what you describe: if there isn't someone else who's coming up front and running the show while you feel like you're watching, that sounds more like a kind of depersonalisation or derealisation. My view on that is that most of the time it's a result of stress and/or overstimulation, both of which are very easy to pick up on a regular basis in our society. (Won't comment on co-presence since others have already explained it well.)

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MPd is still widely used. Just not in the US. The US textbooks are in denial :P

~Lu

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...so much as better understanding the disorder they were trying to describe.

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mysticeden.livejournal.com

yeah it's possible. It's called co consiousness

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People who were there at the time have said that there was a disagreement, because basically a group of professionals didn't ant to admit the possibility of more than one person sharing a body, and wanted to change the official name to reflect this. Many other people rejected the name, in some cases even rejecting the closed mindedness these individuals were showing.

And thus, only in America is DId the only absolute official diagnoses I believe. To the best of my knowledge. anywhere else is allowed to label it DId or MPd as they please (or as is appropriate)

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idianshire.livejournal.com

I would just say that disoociative identity disorder doesn't describe our existence, we are not one identity dissociated. Some of us have dissociative disorders such as derealisation. As selensb said, it was suppose to stop people think that we were more than one person, that indeed we were just one person dissociated and therefore abnormal, needing to be fixed. I do know multiples like that, and that description might work for them. But I think it still comes down to the belief that those that think there is more than one person (rather than cardboard cutout persona)are actually just deluding themselves.

Also in New Zealand DID isn't used, there isn't a lot of information about multiplicity in any form here, but where there is the term MPD is still used.

Shire

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idianshire.livejournal.com

The co consciousness term has always confused us. I was taught it meant when everyone had access to everyone else's memories, emotions and thoughts. That isn't something we have, nor something we could handle happening. I don't want to know what everyone is thinking and feeling, and I really want my own personal thoughts kept private. We can and do discuss things, share things, like everyone in this world probably does. It just isn't some sort of all emcompassing pyschic connection.

Like others here have said, we don't have a "main personality". We do have a group of people who spend the most time interacting with this world. It is a job a group of people volunteer for every few years. Others come and go as they wish but usually there is one of this ED group that sticks around. There is usually room for anyone to watch what is going on, to act as an observer, either because they feel it is necessary or because they are nosy. There are times though when one person will want privacy, and during those times they are left alone.

The other times when more than one person is present at a given time, for us it has a strange layered quality to it. I am not entirely sure how it works, but we can often see and interact with the other person as if they were outside the body. They look and sound real, and yet at the same time I know that they aren't as solid as someone in the room that isn't part of our community.

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Actually, as it was explained to me, it was quite the opposite. The term multiple personality implies that each of the "others" are simply a personality rather than an actual developed identity.
The professionals still don't admit to more than one "person" sharing a body, just that the "others" who front don't share memories and are different in more than just personality. *shrugs* That's how three or four shrinks explained it to me when the change was taking place and just afterwards.

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Um... it was suppose to stop people think that we were more than one person, that indeed we were just one person dissociated and therefore abnormal, needing to be fixed. At least for me, neither multiple personality nor dissociative identity give that imprssion but rather the common term they share being disorder, so really using either term would be implying that we need to be fixed. But simply because our minds function differently than the majority, they'll in general see us as abnormal and needing to be fixed. I use te term not because I feel that I need to be fixed but rather that I know that by the standards set by the society around me, I am insane and disorder and need to be fixed, so that works best when explaining to outsiders.

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bizamoogie.livejournal.com

can the main personality be conscious while another personality is active (i.e. watching what's happening as if life was a movie, whether from a body or out of body standpoint)?

It's called depersonalization disorder. I'm MPD/DID as well as depersonalization. I noticed that I depersonalized more when my former boss had me sitting in his office asking me to set myself up where I couldn't prove he'd been sexually harrasing me than switching out. Then again, my others never really came out at work.

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I use te term not because I feel that I need to be fixed but rather that I know that by the standards set by the society around me, I am insane and disorder and need to be fixed, so that works best when explaining to outsiders.

That may not work to your best advantage. Why buy into society's view of you if you don't actually share it?

You may be interested in the ISSD's view of DID here:
http://www.issd.org/indexpage/isdguide.htm

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We always heard that co-consciousness was when different people in the system were able to know or be able to find out what was going on... not necessarily that they shared each and every thought, memory and emotion. But everything about multiplicity studies and research and therapy in the 80s and 90s was so damned sloppy, the doctors never agreed on a common terminology or what it was supposed to mean.

The problem with the whole "consciousness" routine is that the doctors were assuming that all multiplicity was a disorder of memory -- that it's really all about one person who compartmentalizes sets of memories, which then become the various persons, with amnestic barriers in between. The doctors' main criterion for identifying multiplicity was amnesia between frontrunners. So if two people in the group could communicate, or if more than one of the people knew what had been going on, they termed that co-consciousness because the alternative was, well, unconsciousness.

If co-consciousness is the sharing of all thoughts, emotions and memories, then we don't have it either, and we don't want it.

Daieleh

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Different professionals clearly knew different people who wanted it changed for different reasons. That does not change that your original statement was flawed.

Multiple personality is a whole lot better than Dissociative disorder. A shrink's individual beliefs are personal, and will vary, but when it comes to something as touchy as this subject, ANY progress is a relief, and the step back that was taken by changing to DID in America was frankly terrible.

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In most other countries, DID can be used (they added it as an alternate name, just for the sake of it and to avoid confusion) but MPD is still a valid diagnoses, unlike America where is seems to have been discarded.

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shadowechoes.livejournal.com

From what I understand, DID is defined as basically the delusion that you have multiple people/personalities in one body. MPD was actually more open to the fact that there can be multiple people/personalities in one body.

ksol1460 posted this informative link a little while ago:
http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/allison.html
That should clear things up a bit.

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whispersong.livejournal.com

we have a choice: Share our thoughts or not. Its not hard to block others out from what we think. That said, we don't hide much either in some respects unless we wish privacy which we take & others respect.

in our case, being CC means usually that 2 people are sharing the same conciousness space but only one is "in control" of the body & its movements, while the other sits back & watches commening or what not. The other (observer/passive person) can assert control & speak or type online if they wish. It happens alot if we're in IRC.

Co Fronting is where two or more (up to 4 at once but 4 is very hard) all are meshed together so to speak & have simultaneous control of the body. This states rarer for us. We use it to do tasks that require all of our attentions at once.

The last state we use is what we call hm...i guess co-awareness is close but not the word i want which just means anyone whos in the House proper (not oustise of it in the yard or whatever) can peek out & see whats going on at any time they choose. They can be as aware or ignorant of the outside goings-on as they please.

These are just the terms we use (as well as 2 other systems we interact with) that work for Us. They may not work for you & may not apply. But i hope it explains a few things & may even help.

If you have questions on this, ask...tho i'll be gone a week out of town so don't expect a prompt reply.

{J}tatiana

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That's actually surprising to me that any shrink would admit to there being more than one person within a body. I wish I'd been so lucky as to find someone that recognized that...

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Personally, I see nothing wrong with myself. I function, I enjoy life and see no need to be fixed. Accepting, however, that society in general doesn't agree has been extremely beneficial in that I know when to keep my mouth shut. I spent alot of time in psych wards growing up because I didn't know when to keep my mouth shut, where I came to understand how the rest of the world saw me. While I'm no longer in a position where my parents decide if I should be institutionalized or not, I now have an even bigger concern. I have a daughter that the state would gladly take away if it was proven that my psychological "disorders" haven't gone away.

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Sorry, but I do fall in the the American state of mind more often than I care to admit.
I still disagree about MPD vs. DID. I'd much be labeled DID than MPD, though from looking up personality (the complex of characteristics that distinguishes an individual or a nation or group; especially : the totality of an individual's behavioral and emotional characteristics)* and identity (the distinguishing character or personality of an individual)* I'm not sure there's really much of a difference aside from how individuals perceive the two words.

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The issue is not Identity versus Personality. It's Many Personalities versus Dissociative Identity. One, can either yes, be downgraded to 'haha you suck you're just a fragment nyah', but it can easily mean many people in one body. Dissociative though? There's no two ways about it. It classes 'others' as nothing more than facets or the 'original'. It's demeaning.

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The only way I would see dissociative as demeaning would be if a multiple were born as such, but that may just be how I understand the word. Either way, I've never met a shrink who believed that my "others" were separate people and certainly not who they said they were, so that may be coloring my view as well.

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How is it not demeaning? I wasn't born in this body, and I would be HIGHLY offended if somebody tried to say I was nothing more than a fucking 'frame of mind' Lu could dissociate into. I would be very fucking pissed off. If I ever get a shrink who does not at least TRY to accept my full existance then I will not go to see them because they are not worth my time of the paper their qualification is printed on.

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novemberplatypi.livejournal.com

Well, sometimes it seems like someone else is controlling what I'm doing, sometimes it just seems like I don't exist. And I do have blackout periods every so often. It's quite weird, but, after what I've heard, I think my friends are quite wrong.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. ^_^

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That's not exactly what she meant though. She was asking about a technicality of how a multiple's operating system can work; talking about two (or more) people, not about a single person experiencing a shift in consciousness.

Depersonalization is something that everybody (plural, singlet, etc.) gets -- like derealization, it can be caused by illness, medication (Nyquil for instance), sleep deprivation, and a lot of other things, and it is one of those completely ordinary experiences that has been pathologized.

Again, feeling like you are both participating and observing is not depersonalization nor a mental disorder, it is a routine mental function. I know they put stuff like that in the DSM, but they put in bad handwriting and drinking too much coffee, too.

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Yeah, from what we understand from your previous posts, you yourself don't experience your others as separate persons, right? I mean, your feeling is that they really are just parts of you. And they describe themselves this way as well?

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Yeah, *sigh* we had to learn that one, too... the lies that keep you alive and (relatively) free. Strength to you.

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Problem with Allison is that he went to the other extreme and decided that all multiples were highly psychic and in contact with Celestial Intelligences, etc. His complete credulity did as much, if not more, to discredit multiplicity within the industry as Colin Ross and Bennet Braun and those.

Curiously enough we've heard from some ministerial counselors (!!) who believe there can be more than one soul per body and instead of squishing everyone together they try to help them communicate and get an operating system working. I would have loved to get a full article for the website out of this one guy, but when I answered his email his box was full and I couldn't get a message through to him. Still trying.

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Not all of them actually. Alot of my "others" are past lives. I'm a text book example of DID (or MPD) in that I dissociated to deal with trauma, but I also channel "others" and have soul bonds. The ones who I channel and the soul bonds aren't what I'd consider a part of me.

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