Mooooooore skeptism

[withfangs.livejournal.com]

Please bear with me. My boy, Max, posted here a while ago, in regards to me, and he's trying to push me more into having conversations with others about my own doubts with multiplicity.

When I was young, I began studying other religions, and I really became interested in spirituallity. Along the way, I discovered two others living within. Really, this is just background information, so no know thinks I'm trying to troll or rag on the community. I've been aware of my own multiplicity for a number of years. I also see my multiplicity as a means to my own personal spirituallity. That is, I don't have a set religion, but I see the presence of and communication with my system as being a self-enlightening, holy experience.

I see this huge resurgance of multiples on the internet, and it makes me skeptical. NOT, because of the fact that their multiples. I wouldn't call someone out on being a "fake". But, the way some of these systems carry on, it makes me wonder how they can reasonably function.

I'm going to point the finger at soulbonding, because it seems to be the means of multiplicity that houses the greatest number of loonies. I can accept, per se, that another has entered your system, and is a bad influence, and perhaps is forcing your body and system down a bad path. I can not, however, accept that this entity causing harm is, say, Sephiroth from the Final Fantasy games. That, is insane. Final Fantasy is fiction. It may very well be an entity that projects images OF Sephiroth into your mind, but part of gaining some feasible aspect of functional control over yourselves, is seeing through the bullshit.

I have trouble with people who play INTO that bullshit, by extension. Not only do they seem to be the loudest group of loons, but they're also impossible to have a reasonable discussion with. Everything boils down to "it's different for everyone", which is great for upholding any kind of deluded fantasy that you might have, but really, isn't productive for conversation.

Especially...if you're attempting to learn something, or see if they have a reason to act the way that they do.

Are there any rational, sane soulbonds, here? If so, do they honestly believe that they're fictional characters? This seems to be the most levelheaded community about plurality on LJ that we can find, so I figure it would be the best place to start.

Comments

[luwana.livejournal.com]

My rational sane soulBond Thpppppts at you.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

Hey, it was one way to bring you guys out.

Put a less sarcastic way... :) I'm still of the mind that there needs to be a different word for the process. But seeing as how we've both been there and done that, nothing's going to change. I'd also pair in the fact of creative souls--poets, writers, artists, they're not quite mad and they're not quite sane--they straddle the lines, being the middle ground to either/or, so no--for me, IMO, "rational sane soulbonds" cannot exist, because if someone truly believes a character from a book, play or movie is walking around in their head...that's not sanity. That may be creativity, but it's not sanity.

I like the point that someone here (or maybe elsewhere) brought up, though--that sometimes names are appropriated for people who didn't otherwise have an idea of how to construct themselves. F'rinstance, Faith in whomever's system that was--Faith is not a Slayer, is not gifted with mystical powers, has a middle name, a different last name (assuming Faith on BtVS and Angel was ever given a last name), is not the same character as Joss Whedon wrote--but shares somewhat of an appearance and the first name. I kind of like that idea--makes the whole soulbond issue tie up neatly in my head.

Sanity

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

"because if someone truly believes a character from a book, play or movie is walking around in their head...that's not sanity. That may be creativity, but it's not sanity."

Rationality and sanity are not the same things. Sanity is a legal term which means the ability to tell right from wrong. Being rational is defined as consistent with or based on or using reason, or having its source in or being guided by the intellect rather than experience or emotion. A mentally ill person can be both sane and rational. Are you saying that in general you feel that there is something wrong with the idea that people might be in touch with "fictional" characters?

Re: Sanity

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

Well, as I thought I'd pointed out, I view myself as insane. For being a multiple, for being a real vampire, for watching the walls breathe at night...lots of reasons. That's my starting point. I am these things; I am insane.

It's easy to go downhill from there.

What I'm trying to get across here, is that these are my opinions/precepts/hang-ups/pick-your-term. I'm not saying I speak for the group at large and I'm not saying everyone who is something that I also am is insane.

Though I might be saying that yeah, there maybe be a little bit off about someone who feels Sesshoumaru is walking about in their heads, with the fluffy sheepskin on one side and the cool vengeance on the other. Waybackwhen, we called such folk "touched" and knew they had disassociated from reality. I don't know what to do in a world where these aren't the common switch sets.

A mentally ill person can be both sane and rational.

Well...compared to the median age on LJ at large, I'm old. I've obviously bought into a lot of stuph I was told over the years, getting old. So your statement doesn't make sense to me, but...as I keep pointing out in these conversations...I am trying to learn.

Re: Sanity

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

Why do you view yourself as insane? I'm curious. Having unorthodox beliefs which are not shared by a majority of people does not make one insane, legally or-- officially-- in the books of most therapists. (There are certainly some who will be happy to write you up for it, but theoretically, you're supposed to display other criteria besides unusual beliefs.)

I guess I honestly don't see why believing that 'fictional' stories could have happened in parallel universes, and that people from those universes could make mental contact with people in other universes, is any more strange, weird, or "off" than believing the son of God was born to a virgin 2000 years ago, that he came back to life after he was killed, and that he'll return to earth someday. Now, I'm not saying, by any means, that it's better to believe the former than the latter, or that believing the latter is stupid or wrong-- only that when taken out of context, both beliefs sound equally eccentric.

Re: Sanity

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

First thing: insanity. Well, to be fair I don't believe I'm insane primarily because I'm a multiple, even a fractured one. I believe I'm insane because of the OCD, the panic attacks, the walls breathing at night and the radio talking to me. I've had time to come to terms with the fact that my perceptions of reality are *not* everyone's, and that they shouldn't be; but in my head, the line goes if you think the radio's talking about you--and whether it's on or not, you're hearing it talk about you--you aren't whatever passes for "normal". Whatever that is. I'm mostly just relieved I'm upright and functional enough not to be drooling in the corner of some locked ward. Frankly.

And maybe it's me, but...believing that "fiction" here might be "reality" elsewhere has been a constant of speculative fiction, and certain schools of philosophy, for decades now. Heinlein took on the topic and made a book of it with Number of the Beast. That, I'd believe. Actually, that I do believe.

How'ver, most of the information I've run across--which, I grant, is not all the information available--doesn't make this connection. It mostly seems to reference "I was watching this anime, and X character walked into my head" statements. Which is where, you know, I start backing away and nodding, so as not to overtly disturb the crazy person.

*shrugs* But I'd agree with you, religion and soulbonding seem equally eccentric.

Re: Sanity

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

First thing: insanity. Well, to be fair I don't believe I'm insane primarily because I'm a multiple, even a fractured one. I believe I'm insane because of the OCD, the panic attacks, the walls breathing at night and the radio talking to me.

You consider yourself mentally ill, or you consider yourself insane? As ksol1460 pointed out, sanity is really a legal term concerning the ability to judge one's actions as being right or wrong.

*shrugs* Well, I always figured a lot of the "this character walked into my head" was just a description of the person's subjective experience-- that they weren't necessarily out to prove this person existed as a real separate individual.

Re: Sanity

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

You consider yourself mentally ill, or you consider yourself insane?

Gah. This is a case where the linguistics are bogging us down. "Insane" being the catch-all term used in a non-legal sense, "mentally ill" being the personal unverified (save for the OCD) conclsion of self, not external by professionals of any sort.

Using ksol1460's definition, I am sane. Using my own, I'm not, but I'll bridge it to say "mentally ill" if that's more helpful.

I always figured a lot of the "this character walked into my head" was just a description of the person's subjective experience-- that they weren't necessarily out to prove this person existed as a real separate individual.

Right, whereas I've been taking such statements more literally, and getting very confused--because if someone walked into your body, that's a spirit possession, and as far as I know from my experiences, I've never met a spirit, ghost or entity that looked and acted like it walked out of Final Fantasy or Evangelion.

Dead people? Sure. Animated people? Never. But again, that's me, not everyone.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

(using my account because I'm too lazy to use Lu's)

I assure you, while I may not be 'property of Kevin Grevious', I am who I am. I share far more than a name and a face. I have an entire background and life which corresponds with the fiction that exists here.


Believing in a fictional character in one's head is not a measure of insanity. Any respectable mental health professional should tell you that.

They may not believe in it, many don't, but it's not cause for the label 'insane'.


I still thppppt at you.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

I understand, and I take the thpppppting.

And, if you look down at the bottom of this conversation, the lightbulb went on over my head. So I think I have a better understanding now.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

A better understanding of one take, one that you are comfortable with, yes.

SoulBonding however is a varied experience, so to say that SoulBonding *is* a type of construct situation is innacurate. It *can be* a type of construct situation.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

Um.

Okay, let me step back for a moment and say this with as much delicacy and serenity as I can manage.

At this point in my development, I am a judgemental, mouthy bitch. It's not me insulting myself; it's just who I am. I have a bad experience, therefore anyone thereafter I meet who says they are whatever it was, is instantly lumped in with the first moron who pissed me off.

Now. I have struggled with this issue, and had and continue to have difficulties, especially with the crossover to the otherkin community, and let's just say I Have Issues on that score. Remember, negatively-centered judgemental bitch with a poking stick. I'm trying to be a better, more open-minded person, but right now I really do have a mind like a steel trap--concepts keep falling in and getting mangled.

Therefore, the one time I actually find a conceptualization that works for me, that allows me to back down from these sorts of conversations, and just get over everything at last...and you want to drag me back to figuring everything out step by step and condemning people?

Really? That's what you're saying? Because, honestly, I was very happy in my ignorance and had started to sit back and think nice, comforting "That's that, then" thoughts.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

I'm not dragging you into anything. If that idea works for you, then fine.

Merely pointing out that many SBers and SBs will not fit that mould particularly well, because there are many other theories, all of which have the potential to be true. As long as you can accept that people may not be happy with you compartmentalising them in a way they disagree with, you're welcome to believe whatever you wish.

[nematoddity.livejournal.com]

Gosh, thanks. I can sleep now.

The thing is, any further debate on this issue just puts me at odds with everyone else here, and frankly, did that a while back, tired of it now.

I'm sure there are many things I believe which would be offensive to people if I went along and pointed them out to every single one of them. I'm not proposing that I'm going to walk into soulbonding and loudly proclaim The Truth According to Me. I was saying that I'd finally found something I could latch onto as plausible.

Sorry if you missed that.

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

I didn't. That's what I said :P

Not charging into soulbonding and telling them The True Way counts as accepting people may not be happy with it.

No debate, believe me. Tired of it too. Wish entries like this would just stop appearing already.