multiplicity_archives | Why can't therapists understand?

Why can't therapists understand?

I had a phone conversation today with a potential therapist. I was wanting someone to support me and help me accept myself as multiple and to help me to not dominate the front (I am the most capable one when it comes to interacting with other people) and I wanted to learn to step back more and let others come out, to let the children up to play more.

What was I thinking?

Surely there are therapists that would be able to do just that, but this person was instead (she explained how she worked) telling me that I would have to be the 'chairman' and control the others and work toward integration, to somehow get my needs met so they wouldn't need to exist, and that each of them had a job and thats why they were there.

LOL. I declined her help, bless her, as she was willing to work with me and my not so great financial situation, but my kids were terrifed, by protector on the alert, and my brainy talking explainy self going overboard to try and tell her how my system worked. We were cooperative, I didn't want integration (and if it happens by itself or between and with some because they choose that is different), but I wanted to instead of control, learn how to drop back and not dominate the front!!

LOL again. It just seems so darn funny right now. And in explaining how when I do drop back and let someone else out, the stress (usually, or often, depends on the situation) dissolves and the whole system feels better, yet this seemed to make no difference. Making me better meant integration with me? why me, just cause I talked to her, with me as the chairman!! (Bless this woman, she meant well). Which would mean continual stress and eventualy collapse, but I guess this idea of hers is the traditional training. Maybe it even works for some systems, but by golly, so glad to have enough awareness of my system to not feel there was something wrong with me or that I should accept what she was saying, but still some of us found this phone conversation very disturbing.

Just wanted to post this here so I don't feel so alone and isolated out in the singleton world where therapists who mean well don't understand that a multiple/system might be cooperative and work better that way and want assistence with better internal relationships, better listening to the need of others to front and cofront more. (Rather than controling them and making them disappear... oh I think I said that.... we just can't get over this idea of control... and if anyone needs that it is me the one she wanted to do the controling, as I was the one, or part of the complex, that got a sortof lockdown four years ago as the others fought there way out. Not feeling funny anymore. She wanted to do to my system the very thing that caused it to collapse. And because I can talk well and answered the phone she assumes that I am the one that should be the chairman, doesn't matter if I can't feel my heart unless one of the others is with me.

Does anyone know of a particular type of title, or style of therapy that someone experienced with multiples might use who would be helpful?

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We have found it just simply depends on the therapist as a human being. Maureen was the only one we had (out of probably 14 therapists) who was actually ok with everyone coming out in her office, and ok with us all deciding on cooperation, and we believe she genuinely liked talking to the kids and to all of us as individuals. She never pushed for integration. We regret that we had to move and couldnt stay in therapy with her. The body's life would have turned out differently we think if we had been able to do that. Sorry I got off track, guess I am just trying to say that I think finding what you are looking for is rare in the therapy world but not impossible.

Brit & Beth

That's a little encouraging. That is part of what we want, for everyone to feel welcome and safe enough to come out in an office or theraputic environment, otherwise, there would not be much sense in us being there. If my infants could come out (in a nontramatic fashion) I would know the therapist was supportive. I'm happy that you had Maureen at least for awhile.

I see that you are new to the community. Welcome! :)

I'm sorry you had that experience. I've wanted to talk with some one about some things I went through. But the problem is it's things that didn't happen here. They happened in our realm. I don't know if any one would want to talk with some one they'd think was imaginary and lived in an 'imaginary' place about 'imaginary' things. :( Kalli

That does sound like a tough one, but I would think there might be someone out there who would be open minded enough to listen and even give feedback. If my system has an inner realm, I don't have direct access to it, though I do experience a number of unusual things that most people probably would think were imaginary.

Maybe there is some one. Kalli

*Hoping you find someone*

One of our Spirit Guides is helping me now.

There are good therapists, but unfortunately there are probably more BAD ones then good ones with dealing with MPD. I got lucky. My T is awesome - plays games with the little ones, accepts them, and lets them talk about memories (that belong to me, as well as memories of their own from our inner world). I hope you can find someone who will treat you as needed.

The only one to play games with my little ones so far is my neighbors cat! He has a tendency to prefer them to adults. Thanks for the support, I hope I do find someone.

Man, if you ever hear of a therapist or a therapy style where multiples are actually respected and assisted with the group-related issues they want to work on -- system reorganization, fronting issues, whatever -- please do post it here and cc it to Lynn Wasnak at manyvoicespress.com. We get so many requests for that kind of information.

I don't know how to cc things, but I can recommend a doctor who works with us and is very respectful of us and helps us with group related issues.
should I e-mail you? How should I send you this information?

Please email us. ksol1460 @ livejournal dot com ought to do it.

There should be a place in your mail program for a cc (carbon copy); if you find it, Lyn's address is lynnw @ manyvoicespress dot com ... if you can't locate the cc: feature in your mail program let us know and we'll forward your mail to her. Thank you so much!

sent and cc'd!

Thank you, haven't received it yet, though; try our mailform (http://www.astraeasweb.net/returnform/mailform.html)?

that's odd. well, I send it via the mailform. Hopefully this time you'll get it.

The problem is that such integration training is what does work for a lot of people with the genuine disorder of DID, so how is she supposed to know you're any different? Does that make sense?

Also, have you ever read the book The Minds of Billy Milligan? I believe he was basically the classic example of DID... and he did integrative therapy, and his system members wanted to, and it did work for them. Of course, in that case, the "original" personality Billy would lose weeks or months of his life at a time, and had no idea the rest of them even existed.

Well, okay... I could answer my own question by saying that she could be openminded and try a different approach on you. But I've noticed that a lot of therapists really like to stick by whatever methodology and training THEY received... which in my opinion is a mistake, but whatever. (I'm considering being a psychotherapist myself.)

She is supposed to know I'm different because I clearly told her what my system was needing, and she did finally realize that she wouldn't be an appropriate therapist for me just as I clearly knew the same thing.

What bothered me most was that she was assuming that the person that called her, that she was talking to, should be the chairman. Why? Rather than say something to the effect of getting to know people and letting them choose, or help in directing them to choose who they thought should be the 'chairman', she is putting that pressure and 'job' on someone who may not be appropriate at all, and it felt a bit like 'nazi integration', not gentle, not welcoming and understanding of people, not warm. Anyway, we need each other, and her approach even if gentle wouldn't have been right.

I think I have read parts of 'The Minds of Billy Milligan". My system is co-conscious and the only time it wasn't was during a severe breakdown. I don't know what type of clients she had worked with previously and how well her approach worked. I was mainly disappointed and discouraged because she WAS willing to work with my financial limitations, and my choice of therapists is limited by this issue.

Possibly gestalt based therapy, though they may try to talk you into thinking that your people are not actually individuals, but other aspects of yourself. I also had one, who had a base in somatic or body therapy that never suggested integrating. I'm afraid though for the most part, you just have to keep searching until you find a good one, younger folk seemed to be more open, but then there is the trade of with their experience levels and if they are in there internship period, they may have to go elsewhere in a fairly short time period.

I have yet to talk to a multiple for whom integration was a successful or even helpful strategy myself. It would be nice if "formal training" caught up with that.

Maybe the formal training will eventually catch up with what really helps and works for people. I did have one therapist for a half a year or so who was very open to working with me anyway that I wanted. Unfortunately she had no experience with multiplicity, and it got to the point where we would have internal conversations with each other agreeing to just let her say the nice things that she did and support us in the way she was trying to, even though it wasn't really helpful, except for the fact that she was so very kind and caring. But we needed someone with some type of experience. The few times that one of my children came out, the therapist didn't seem to recognize that, and there was the feeling that I needed to remain an adult.

I have had 2 therapists who did somatic work and neither seems at all
interested in us integrating. One said outright that she thought that
it would be a mistake.

If you are in the Washington DC area i can give you referrals. We, of
course researched these therapists well. The one we have now really is
only interested in issues and focusses on the many body injuries i have
had that are kind of stuck. She also focuses on DBT type stuff with me.

As far as being willing to deal with different people coming out it is
pretty much a requirement. We switch a lot and have no 'chairman'. We
cooperate in a non-regimented fashion.

---- Miri of Mtribe

I am in Colorado, but thanks for your offer of Washington DC referrals. I will keep somatic therapy in mind.

We function best with continual switching and/or cofronting throughout the day. Some people in my system are mute, some don't read well or can't read at all but are very intuitive, and when I allow them to stay out with me when I read or do mental stuff their intuitions are amazing and kept things running smoother.

We're in Colorado too.

I'm in northern Colorado.

YEs - we have a member who is mute but she is very smart too. She is in
her 20's but has a great wisdom to her.

--- Miri of Mtribe

i absolutely love my therapist in this regard. i told her one day about names and ages that were being revealed to me. she never used the word "multiple" so as to not distract me from my own path, but she kept saying things like, "i've known many people like yourself." she believes that integration is okay for some people but also understands that others want to hang on to their system.
she sees us (multiples of any level) as being highly facinating, intelligent, and functional peoples.
i wish everyone here could have a therapist like her. (she's in pa.) now i live 3 hours away, but still wouldn't trade her for the world.

More encouragement. Thank you.

Mmm. Our current therapist is vey supportive of Fire (our main young one who wants to front). We are very grateful to our current therapist for that as such, because it allows Fire a chance to front and talk in a safe environment, where someone genuinely wants to play with her while they talk to her.

Our therapist is in the San Fernando Valley (Greater Los Angeles), and as long as we check with her first we're more than happy to give you her name.

Thanks for the offer. I am in colorado though.

yeah it's really hard finding a good therapist.. When we moved, we were terrified it'd take forever to find a good one.. We REALLY lucked out.. we found two.. the other lady we never even did more than interview.. (she was good, but we felt we'd found the right lady). The lady we talk to now.. says that it's more important that we cooperate.. she's even said that integration would NOT work for us.. (which we were and are really happy about)..we haven't made time for the littles to play or talk about about of things, but we can switch freely around her.. and she NOTICES..

Oh, and we've found much better luck working with licensed clinical social workers.. than with psychologists or psychiatrists. Social workers seem more focused on dealing with issues than tossing labels around and following a format /plan.. . The lady we didn't meet with, but who sounded very cool.. said she followed something called "internal family systems" or something. basically there is a chairperson/people and they oversee/ cooperate with others, and help each other make the whole life better..and they apply it to plurals and single souls (it sorta squicked us.. but we were pretty shaky during the move). Not totally sure what the lady we work with now practices.. she seems pretty eclectic.. She has said a lot that "the same path doesn't work for everyone, we need to find the stuff that works for you all".

We're in tennessee

"She has said a lot that "the same path doesn't work for everyone, we need to find the stuff that works for you all"."

Clearly this is what I will need from anyone that works with me.

*nods* look for social workers. they have different schooling.. and most seem to be a much better fit.. at least for us.. There are going to be jerks and close minded people in any profession.. but those are the ones we've found.
-Akari
--Gryphons

I'm sorry you ran into that. It doesn't seem like she was very knowledgable, which is sadly all too common. At least she was well-meaning. And in terms orf "traditional training"? In my experience as a psychiatry resident, there isn't any training at all. Not in multiplicity anyway. A great many of my teachers don't even believe it exists and they don't think it's important/common enough to teach us about it. If they even understood it themeselves, which they don't.

The only reason I more or less get it is that I had DDNOS myself and was fortunate enough to find a therapist who got it and I learned through working with her and read a bunch of stuff on my own.

My therapist uses EMDR predominantly, but that's no guarantee that any random EMDR practitioner would understand multiplicity. Many of them don't, as far as I know.

She really was well meaning and that does count for something.

And interesting thing about EMDR, a therapist I had for awhile several years back (now retired) suggested I could use my hands to tap alternately (to engage both brain hemispheres) a rather simplified version of EMDR, and one of my inner people even previous to this had told me that when I became really upset (at this time I was in a rather dangerous place with a war on inside) that I should go ride by bicycle. At the time I was barely functioning physically so rode rather slowly, but after awhile it occurred to me that the movement of my legs riding the bike might also be a rather simplifed version of EMDR helping to balance and engage both hemispheres. Besides that it triggered young ones inside that loved to ride the bike and in any case it really was helpful.

You're absolutely right about the tapping and the bike riding. Even wallking is bilateral. :)

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