Interesting ruminations by our philosopher-selves.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The following is rumination by our Lucifer Davison:
The idea that there could be people born multiple instantly means that for a small minority, the system (no pun intended) is wrong. They are not matching the identity of the common person on the street. They are instead:

A subculture of bodies with multiple inhabitants. The ramifications of this are big, especially where religion is concerned. If people are born with more than one soul, then to them the Biblical proscription of "One soul, one mind, one body" is not accurate. If so, this means that there is a full-fledged option to be different from the common culture. Multiplicity, if divorced from the doctrine of mental disorder would potentially be far more upsetting than Homosexuality. If people can have experiences of living in a body and can be proud of that fact, then there is a consequence for society. The consequence is that simplicity, that panacea of Fundamentalism and Social conservatism, is thrown out with the bath-water. The same is true for the natural multiples that weren't caused by trauma. Psychiatry does not recognize them and tries to suppress them with all the power of the State. Multiplicity, specifically the natural and born versions, is a potential death-blow to the infantilizing notions of mental health and extremist religion. Multiples have the ability to grasp far more of human potential, if only they choose to reach for it. They can reach for their potential in ways denied Singletons. The Singleton seeks relief in religion, in alcohol, in fruitless activities that are harmful to him or her and cannot escape the grim realities of this world. People in systems can, and that is what causes members of systems to be regarded as coping mechanisms and arrested development. We who are united in the simple fact that we are people who reside not in houses of steel or brick but of flesh. If people can be born multiple, then the world is far more complex than the average Fundamentalist of any religion or creed can stomach. That is my view on why the Establishment fights to keep the knowledge of healthy, normal multiplicity from being known. Thanks for playing!

Comments, anyone?

Comments

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Biblical proscription of "One soul, one mind, one body?" Never heard of this, and I'm pretty well versed in the Bible. Can you give me chapter and verse on that? A search for "one soul" turns up only these:

"And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:" (Numbers 31:28)

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common." (Acts 4:32) Which is referring to a whole group being "one soul."

A search for "one mind" turns up lots of stuff, but it's all of the same sort, talking about groups of individuals who were metaphorically of one mind. And "one body" turns up the various metaphors about the body of Christ being the church of Christ.

Where does it say the one soul, one mind, one body thing?

[shandra.livejournal.com]

Not in the bible that I'm aware of (which means nothing as I might well just not know) but the Catholic catechism definitely does say this - we had someone in our system going through the RCIA process who talked a Jesuit about it (and didn't convert, for that reason among many).

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Interesting. Is "one soul, one mind, one body" the actual wording used?

[visionaree.livejournal.com]

Ephesians 4:4 is the only thing we found that came close. The computer search revealed 10 matches. confused on the meaning.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Well, given that the cross reference I have there leads to a bunch more stuff on the body as a metaphor for the Church of Christ, I'd say that it's talking about a unified church, not a single individual. A metaphorical, rather than a literal "one."

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

Yes, well, according to the Bible, homosexuality and eating shellfish are the same level of upsetting.

[tej-agni.livejournal.com]

I thought there were three within one for Christianity. A father, a son, and a holy spirit all in one god being or a holy trinity.

Amalah

[cirape.livejournal.com]

You really believe that the establishment (the man?) is trying to keep multiples down and/or hidden? Do you have proof of this?

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

Just the other day I had the SIS turn up and go through my IM history to make sure I wasn't spreading lies about MPD to the populace.

[aimeepatricia.livejournal.com]

I would of thought they had more the keep track of. UFOs, Democrats, Anti-War people, Bob Dole's Cyborg, the Ghost of Disney....

[cirape.livejournal.com]

No, no, its not the ghost of disney, its the cyrogenically frozen head, possibly now attached to a robot ;P

(I did was a serious reply from the original poster, btw. Just defending myself in case it comes up, since I seem to be afraid I'll be accused of starting trouble.)

[aimeepatricia.livejournal.com]

Hi. This entire diatribe makes my head hurt, and I don't understand it. Could the nice man(?) explain what he was talking about, or what he was trying to point out?

[nat-leia.livejournal.com]

I'm just wondering where did the author(s) get there are some ways of reaching the potential specific to multiples, and how exactly are people living in plural conditions *not* seeking relief in religion, in alcohol and fruitless activities...

Depends, maybe I've misread something.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That was me talking of my bodymates who are every bit as neurotic as the fundies they despise. I do not stand the type of religious mumbojumbo and psychobabble espoused by Graham Work and David Liberian and Martin Anders (all members of my system) very easily. My system sucks, I'll freely admit it. They are a mass of contradictions and cannot understand why they are so stressed out. Mabye if my system would look at the articles they write they would learn that for all their talk of reaching their potential; they're still cavemen hunting lions with stone spears. At least I acknowledge it.
Lucifer "Living with a pack of damn fools in this body" Davison.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Some of the younger fronters agree with part of what you're saying, except for the "able to grasp far more of human potential" part.

We see no reason why singlets shouldn't grasp just as much of human potential (provided one's into that sort of thing, which we're not) as multiples. There's been tons written by singlets about other worlds and realities.

What we think concerns the dominant culture about us, if anything, is the idea of multiple persons in one body symbolizing lack of their control over the population. The existence of multiples implies that the government and dominant culture don't control as much as they think they do, and that scares them.

It's the same with pathologizing religious experience ("She talks to God? Okay, lock her up and give her these pills") or other normal life problems and experiences, control is paramount, or the economy would be affected! Can't have that!

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

...I don't think the government honestly cares.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Yeah, seconded. I've NEVER once heard of the government going after a multiple, in any context.

[nat-leia.livejournal.com]

I did not word my response precisely. What I meant is, I do not see that big difference between plurals and singletons (yes, there are some differences in functioning, yet I do not think that matters right now for the purposes of this debate.)

Thus can't grasp why would singletons be any 'less' capable of anything, or more prone to something else than the general population. I do not think there is any research supporting these assumptions of proness to such things.

(One can understand plurality as a group of *singletons* in one body, after all. I know not all identify with that concept, but it can be seen that way for easier explanation of what I have in mind.)

Certain amount of fear might play a role, yet I would not see it an only cause. I doubt dominant culture cares that much, actually. There are enough problems of its own for it. *headspin*

I think I'm babbling.

[rabbitsystem.livejournal.com]

Hah! The next time I am in church I shall be sure to remember that I cannot believe, because that is merely a failing of weak-minded singletons. One soul, one body? Perhaps, but such is never specified. Several souls? One soul with several consciousnesses forming a single being on a level we cannot currently understand? Possibly, even probably.
I rather like the idea of having superhuman potential, though. Could you teach me how to access it, or must I wait for the happy fairies to come and show me?
-Durza

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The only thing I could teach you is how to have a massive superiority complex with involuntary paranoid rage. I personally think the whole damn system I live in is just as weak and deluded as the Fundamentalists they hang around. Some of them think that by their status as the weird one around campus, that that entitles them to live a life as emotionally castrated as they please. I have no patience with fools, either inside my system or outside it. Your system is smarter than mine, I'll give you that. Then again, a chimp with sign language is smarter than half the people of the Crew anyway.
Lucifer "I live in a body with a pack of damn fools" Davison.

[exegetic.livejournal.com]

The Singleton seeks relief in religion, in alcohol, in fruitless activities that are harmful to him or her and cannot escape the grim realities of this world. People in systems can, and that is what causes members of systems to be regarded as coping mechanisms and arrested development.

I find this...wrong. We live in this world, and we cannot escape it. We could ignore things that are going on outside, yes, and leave others to take care of it. But all of us here would agree that would be bad. We help each other take care of things outside. We do not abandon someone at front to deal with it while the rest of us go and stick our heads in the sand. No one in here escapes from reality. We all share the burden.

[lion-azure.livejournal.com]

Frankly, this all smacks a bit too much of a superiority complex, coupled with percieved persecution, to me.

The notion that there are natural born multiples won't change the world, or overthrow religion. Society will adapt as much as it has to while keeping its norms and traditions intact as much as it can. It's the way society works.

The Singleton seeks relief in religion, in alcohol, in fruitless activities that are harmful to him or her and cannot escape the grim realities of this world

You are aware of just how arrogant and demeaning this sounds, are you? Also, the seeking relief from this world in (insert unhealthy coping mechansim here) is just as true for multiples.

And the world is already far more complex than religious fundamentalists can stomach. But those people have the amazing ability to just shut their eyes to reality, and pretend that their fantasyland is how things should be.

- Fireez

Ditto-ing

[kangetsuhime.livejournal.com]

*is multiple and is still perfectly happy to admit that she seeks relief in alcohol and in fruitless activities which may or may not be harmful to her*

Amazingly, while being multiple theoretically gives me another avenue to switch off, it doesn't quite work like that.

*also doesn't think there's anything wrong with seeking relief in these things. Dude, who DOESN'T play games or watch TV or read books?*

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

By my diatribe, I was referring to the atmosphere of the city I live in. As for one body, one mind, one soul, there is the notion in the Synoptic gospels where Jesus says "With all your heart, all your SOUL, and all your MIND." In the Biblical timeframe the notion of multiple souls equalled demonic possession. In modern times psychiatry classifies multiples as basket cases that suffer from DID.


My comment on multiples having the ability to grasp more of human potential refers to the idea that there are more human consciousnesses in the multiple mind, ergo more to grasp. Selves in systems can (this primarily is a reference to my own system) grasp far more of their potential than they do. That was me, Lucifer Davison, referring to my system's laziness and apathy. We have a rather large, still-growing system. There's a growing movement within our system to become what we're supposed to be instead of the lazy bums we act like.

As for the religion, alcohol and fruitless activities comment, I was referring to the people of my city of residence in the Earthworld. The city I live in has a very exasperating idea that "if I interfere in X's business, I can keep X from interfering in mine."

Finally, I was referring to the Christian Right of the city of residence that thinks it's their damned business to try to squelch any differences of opinion other than theirs. I have discussed the issue of multiplicity with these Fundamentalists and they have the gall to tell me my existence is a lie! They state that the issue of multiplicity is a lie and a product of diseased Post-Fall mentality. THAT is the establishment I am referring to. As a liberal, anti-Fundamentalist evolutionist, I can't discuss my existence or views without being told I am going to hell both for what I believe and the fact I exist.

As for the person who said the government doesn't care about multiplicity, you're right. I should have clarified what I meant by Establishment.

Lucifer "Liberal in Southern Neanderthal Land" Davison signing out.

[asperites.livejournal.com]

What the Hell do you mean by 'Thanks for playing'? That's the only part that gets me - I don't understand a word of the rest. Never studied the bible, never been a true Christian, never will be. ~Kay

Er... -drags Kay off- She's a bit overreactive... ._. ~2D