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multiplicity_archives2005-03-16 06:30 am
firewheelvortex.livejournal.com) wrote in multiplicity_archives2005-03-16 06:30 am
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Autistic/Multiple overlap
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plural_living, paradigmshifter, multiplicity
I posted an article about aspy/autisic multiples to my forums about this some time ago and it's drawn absolutely no reaction. Yet I know We Are Out There. Because, well, I know three, possibly four aspy multis personally, disincluding myself.
I can find lots about being multi, and lots about being aspy/autistic, but only scattered comments here and there about the overlap. I think there's a need to get the ball rolling. And if you have and I don't know, well, THAT is something I very much want to know about.
If nothing else, please participate in the interest poll at the top of the article.
The article text follows; feel free to swipe it with due credit.
More and more Aspies and Multis are talking about the overlap in spectra; the first I heard of the possibility was ten years or so ago; a fully autistic woman who was also multi, and it was felt (by the medical community) that autism had been the "cause."
I have always been suspicious of the idea that multiplicity is "caused," per-se, nor did I ever feel comfortable with it being called a "disorder;" I feel very strongly that is both misleading and counterproductive. I do realize that people heavily invested in the US medical model may tend to disagree, but to quote Dr. Phil; "And how well has that been working for you?"
To me, the proof of the validity of a treatment is that it works; and it seems to me that people who follow the advice of empowered multis who have been there and done that seem to deal more rapidly with the issues involved in being a multiple who is (often quite literally) disordered.
Both Colon Ross's approach to multiplicity and the ABA style of behavior mod focus on the condition as a disease to be stamped out, rather than a naturally different way of thinking, feeling and perceiving. It doesn't play to our strengths to adapt for our weaknesses; indeed, IMHO, it tells us that our most important abilities are disabilities and every effort is made to stamp them out.
My opinion, backed only by experience. An awful lot of painfully frustrating experience, actually. I'm by no means suggesting the idea of neglecting or omitting therapy. On the contrary; what I'm suggesting is a different approach. And for those of us who have little or no mental health coverage, there is little choice, really; one has to address the issues oneself, or not get them addressed at all. In my case, this has been largely successful, though I'm aware that an outside reality check would have allowed me to progress much faster.
The same is true of autistic spectrum disorders, unfortunately. The medical and parent advocacy communities are invested heavily in behavior-mod approaches that are not at all the "cure" that they want. And of course, many of us take the idea of being "cured" as being rather offensive, especially given the trade-offs many parents and professionals seem entirely willing to make.
Many of these behavioristic-style "resources" seem to be staffed with people who do not seem qualified to substitute teach normal kids in a kindergarten, so I am extremely dubious; behavior mod is an extremely powerful tool - not unlike hypnosis in it's ability to bend minds - and there seems little recognition that there is a mind already there. IMHO.
Most tragic to me is the idea that such people seem to have; that there is a "normal" child "trapped" inside the disease of autism.
Well, autism may or may not be a disease or disorder, but it is also a difference in nature; in basic wiring. Therefore, any approach must start with the abilities and deficits that exist "normally" for an autistic person.
Ok, this is where the threads blend. If a person happens to be born with the ability to dissociate and on the autistic spectrum, it may well be that they develop a very powerful blending of both traits. They learn to create different personalities for different situations and routines. They learn (each and severally) to develop tolerances to adapt for sensory issues and overloads - just as abused multis develop people to hold abuse trauma.
I've got a deep, dark suspicion that I might well be diagnosed as full-blown autistic without my ability to switch. And the nature of my multiplicity is quite different than more "classical" Wilburian multiples; I do not lose time in the normal way; we have always been co-conscious, and we are invisibly smooth switchers, to the extent that we are often unaware that we have switched. Whoever is "front" always knows what's going on with solid memory tracks and awareness of context.
Until I had a nervous breakdown as an adult based on stresses that were relationship-based, I had no idea that I was multiple, nor any idea that my thought processes were in any way different than anyone else's. I mean, who thinks about how they think? We had to, because all those smooth operations broke down for a time.
When I was assessed on intake, they had some tests for me to take. One was a stress assessment; and given the daily pressures of the previous decade or so, they should have seen me a lot sooner. A LOT sooner! Somehow I was able to muddle through, despite being both multiple and autistic under circumstances that ought to make a normal person head straight for a rubber room and barricade the door behind them.
And I can't even say that I was particularly aware that I was under a lot of stress.
Now, there's no free lunch; when I broke, I broke down big-time. But that simply would not have happened had I had an appropriate and "normal" support network.
In other words, given the same mix of conditions, and condition-appropriate support, adaptation and training, I feel that it's quite possible for a person such as myself to function as well or better as anyone . And let's face it, anyone in the high-IQ range is mentally high-maintenance; no matter how "normal" they are, that alone makes a huge difference in how they function; it's a trait common to both multis and aspies and can be a huge advantage and huge deficit at the same time.
Traditional medical models treat only the surface issues; dealing mainly with how we relate to other people, and trying to make us appear as "normal" as possible, without considering that our "normal" might be normally quite different. No accounting is made for the "overhead" cost of running such emulations, or how it might affect our internal functions.
And nobody thinks to ask, because, well, when we do present to the medical community, we are generally pretty damn messed up. The confusion is understandable, but it is confusion.
Therefore I'm opening the floor here to everyone concerned. I'm particularly interested in discussing treatment options for real disorders - that is to say, stuff that messes with you enough to be a disability.
For myself, I found that a registered Trauma Therapist was able to do wonders for us, by dealing with some traumatized individuals within our system. The relief was immediate; increase in function immediate. She had little direct exposure to multis, but simply by working with my own expressed reality, she was able to achieve sudden positive results.
I think behavioristic approaches that took these factors into account could also be a profound improvement. And I also think that behaviorists who recognized the advantages autistics have in certain areas would find their efforts rapidly rewarded.
plural_living, paradigmshifter, multiplicityI posted an article about aspy/autisic multiples to my forums about this some time ago and it's drawn absolutely no reaction. Yet I know We Are Out There. Because, well, I know three, possibly four aspy multis personally, disincluding myself.
I can find lots about being multi, and lots about being aspy/autistic, but only scattered comments here and there about the overlap. I think there's a need to get the ball rolling. And if you have and I don't know, well, THAT is something I very much want to know about.
If nothing else, please participate in the interest poll at the top of the article.
The article text follows; feel free to swipe it with due credit.
More and more Aspies and Multis are talking about the overlap in spectra; the first I heard of the possibility was ten years or so ago; a fully autistic woman who was also multi, and it was felt (by the medical community) that autism had been the "cause."
I have always been suspicious of the idea that multiplicity is "caused," per-se, nor did I ever feel comfortable with it being called a "disorder;" I feel very strongly that is both misleading and counterproductive. I do realize that people heavily invested in the US medical model may tend to disagree, but to quote Dr. Phil; "And how well has that been working for you?"
To me, the proof of the validity of a treatment is that it works; and it seems to me that people who follow the advice of empowered multis who have been there and done that seem to deal more rapidly with the issues involved in being a multiple who is (often quite literally) disordered.
Both Colon Ross's approach to multiplicity and the ABA style of behavior mod focus on the condition as a disease to be stamped out, rather than a naturally different way of thinking, feeling and perceiving. It doesn't play to our strengths to adapt for our weaknesses; indeed, IMHO, it tells us that our most important abilities are disabilities and every effort is made to stamp them out.
My opinion, backed only by experience. An awful lot of painfully frustrating experience, actually. I'm by no means suggesting the idea of neglecting or omitting therapy. On the contrary; what I'm suggesting is a different approach. And for those of us who have little or no mental health coverage, there is little choice, really; one has to address the issues oneself, or not get them addressed at all. In my case, this has been largely successful, though I'm aware that an outside reality check would have allowed me to progress much faster.
The same is true of autistic spectrum disorders, unfortunately. The medical and parent advocacy communities are invested heavily in behavior-mod approaches that are not at all the "cure" that they want. And of course, many of us take the idea of being "cured" as being rather offensive, especially given the trade-offs many parents and professionals seem entirely willing to make.
Many of these behavioristic-style "resources" seem to be staffed with people who do not seem qualified to substitute teach normal kids in a kindergarten, so I am extremely dubious; behavior mod is an extremely powerful tool - not unlike hypnosis in it's ability to bend minds - and there seems little recognition that there is a mind already there. IMHO.
Most tragic to me is the idea that such people seem to have; that there is a "normal" child "trapped" inside the disease of autism.
Well, autism may or may not be a disease or disorder, but it is also a difference in nature; in basic wiring. Therefore, any approach must start with the abilities and deficits that exist "normally" for an autistic person.
Ok, this is where the threads blend. If a person happens to be born with the ability to dissociate and on the autistic spectrum, it may well be that they develop a very powerful blending of both traits. They learn to create different personalities for different situations and routines. They learn (each and severally) to develop tolerances to adapt for sensory issues and overloads - just as abused multis develop people to hold abuse trauma.
I've got a deep, dark suspicion that I might well be diagnosed as full-blown autistic without my ability to switch. And the nature of my multiplicity is quite different than more "classical" Wilburian multiples; I do not lose time in the normal way; we have always been co-conscious, and we are invisibly smooth switchers, to the extent that we are often unaware that we have switched. Whoever is "front" always knows what's going on with solid memory tracks and awareness of context.
Until I had a nervous breakdown as an adult based on stresses that were relationship-based, I had no idea that I was multiple, nor any idea that my thought processes were in any way different than anyone else's. I mean, who thinks about how they think? We had to, because all those smooth operations broke down for a time.
When I was assessed on intake, they had some tests for me to take. One was a stress assessment; and given the daily pressures of the previous decade or so, they should have seen me a lot sooner. A LOT sooner! Somehow I was able to muddle through, despite being both multiple and autistic under circumstances that ought to make a normal person head straight for a rubber room and barricade the door behind them.
And I can't even say that I was particularly aware that I was under a lot of stress.
Now, there's no free lunch; when I broke, I broke down big-time. But that simply would not have happened had I had an appropriate and "normal" support network.
In other words, given the same mix of conditions, and condition-appropriate support, adaptation and training, I feel that it's quite possible for a person such as myself to function as well or better as anyone . And let's face it, anyone in the high-IQ range is mentally high-maintenance; no matter how "normal" they are, that alone makes a huge difference in how they function; it's a trait common to both multis and aspies and can be a huge advantage and huge deficit at the same time.
Traditional medical models treat only the surface issues; dealing mainly with how we relate to other people, and trying to make us appear as "normal" as possible, without considering that our "normal" might be normally quite different. No accounting is made for the "overhead" cost of running such emulations, or how it might affect our internal functions.
And nobody thinks to ask, because, well, when we do present to the medical community, we are generally pretty damn messed up. The confusion is understandable, but it is confusion.
Therefore I'm opening the floor here to everyone concerned. I'm particularly interested in discussing treatment options for real disorders - that is to say, stuff that messes with you enough to be a disability.
For myself, I found that a registered Trauma Therapist was able to do wonders for us, by dealing with some traumatized individuals within our system. The relief was immediate; increase in function immediate. She had little direct exposure to multis, but simply by working with my own expressed reality, she was able to achieve sudden positive results.
I think behavioristic approaches that took these factors into account could also be a profound improvement. And I also think that behaviorists who recognized the advantages autistics have in certain areas would find their efforts rapidly rewarded.
no subject
Heather was behavior-mod'd by her husband. he originally told her he didnt want us around. we got together and decided to lay low for a while until it was safe to come out. It's surprisd us to see how well she's doing. We've just recently let him know we're here and he's OK with it as long as nobody here hurts Heather. It's been an issue in the past. I personally let him know that there always will be someone here. Most likely Lori. --Sarena
no subject
An all-guns-blazing therapy approach isn't always the right idea. Working with what's there makes more sense, whether you eventually build on that or not.
I've always been tempted to think, if someone can function within a reasonable definition of 'normally', doesn't present any danger and isn't unhappy, what's the point of therapy?
no subject
Perhaps a lot of parents would relax if they knew that an autistic child could have a future outside of an institution or group home. A good deal of this parental devastation over an autism diagnosis may be a (not unreasonable) fear that the child will never become an independent adult and that they will have to go on supporting her/him forever. As cultural permission for autism increases with things like the Aspie Schools, Autreat and the Autastic programs, some parents might feel less fear and desperation.
no subject
no subject
I think she called it MPD in her letter to us because she didn't know what else to call it. She said she'd been packaged with the autism thing, but that we (astraea) were just about the only ones who had not been allergic to mention of her multiplicity.
How will your theory account for multiples like ourselves or
If you can find our high IQ, let us know. I think I must have left it in my other pants. Once you account for Gabriel's hyperlexia, we've never scored higher than average.
swiped!
You know, "high IQ" is one of those wierd things - frankly, I think intelligence tests look for things that are associated with what people value/think as being intelligence.
But I also think that I am both "smarter" and "dumber" than those tests indicate. And I KNOW I'm really, really good at taking tests.
Anyway, you have always struck me as being as intelligent as I am in our converations. Whatever you do to get there, well, who cares?
Especially given that I've always been just smart enough to get myself into difficulties that I'm not quite smart enough to exploit. :)
no subject
They learn (each and severally) to develop tolerances to adapt for sensory issues and overloads - just as abused multis develop people to hold abuse trauma.
Our own operating system is kind of the opposite of how you described yours-- a person in a very upsetting situation in our system doesn't have the option of handing it off to someone else. They literally get locked out front, no matter what kind of effects might result.
As counterproductive as it might sound, this seems to have been a natural way of minimizing the damage that went around. If you have a lot of people living in the same house and one of them gets sick, you don't immediately expose them to the others-- you quarantine them so the other people living in the house don't get sick too. If the frontrunner got locked out, only they would suffer damage, while the rest of the system would be okay. It was kind of the opposite of the Wilburian model, actually-- instead of others being sacrificed to save an original child, one person would be sacrificed to save the rest of the system.
So while a couple of people went to the point of repeated breakdowns, they could be replaced by others-- which sounds heartlessly utilitarian, or at least does to me as I'm writing this now, but it wasn't something we did consciously. It was just more like the system wouldn't let the switchover happen until the danger was past.
no subject
"Dissociation" is something alien to us. We heard about kids leaving their bodies when bullied, and we've often tried in situations like that, but it didn't work.
About IQ - we're what is called "gifted", but we don't believe autism makes you more likely to be that (though it may have something to do with the kind of intelligence/thinking/learning style someone has). In our opinion that idea is an overcompensation for the common view that more autistics than normals are below average in intelligence.
As far as we know none of our real people are based on compensation strategies to be more NT-like. What does happen is that the brain does a certain thing, like having trouble with speech for some reason, and someone comes out who doesn't speak, and handles it much better than someone who would keep trying to speak and feel isolated when it didn't work.
We've gone from calling certain things "states" and "modes" to calling them "people"; we have no idea whether they started as states and developed into people, or started as people (maybe the "subpersonalities" everybody is supposed to have) who brought these states with them somehow, or started as people and became associated with certain states (like in the above example).
As to what you said in
- somewhat identity-confused us (we just had an argument)
no subject
The myth of the gifted autistic is like the myth of the gifted multiple -- it's overcompensation, just like you said. I have worked with severely affected Kanner's autistics who were also mentally retarded. They were pleasant kids, but gifted they weren't. What they did have was focus, so they could bring all their attention to bear on the task at hand. They could thus work very fast, but we've seen our non-autistic stepmother hook rugs and crochet bedspreads at equally phenomenal speeds. The actual ratio of high IQ multiples, autistics, etc., is probably the same as the ratio of high IQ singlets, non-autistics, etc. It just surprises the hell out of everyone when non-verbal autistics are given a way to communicate and it turns out they've heard every word you've said about them and have opinions and thoughts and beliefs of their own just like everybody else.
*points to what you said about crisis mode* That pretty much matches our view of it, too.
no subject
I don't think mpd is a disability. blackouts are a disability.
I personally think developing multi's is a skill, that is frequently used for survival is extreme circumstances.
I know nothing of autism (except for rainman, and that its a poor source) but if my friends autistic three year old and his screamig habits are a good indication, its a pretty crappy existance? maybe autistics are given strong incentive to learn to split, and are more often to do so?
no subject
Even if we had been able to split ourselves, I'm not sure if we could ever have become totally non-autistic. The best we've ever been able to do is to mask it. A lot of things like sensory issues just seem to be hard-wired into the body, and there's not much anyone can do to dodge them.
Check out http://www.autistics.org/ for more information on autism, if you're curious (the "Autism? What is it?" page is a good starter).
no subject
no subject
And that's aside from them not understanding/listening/believing about sensory overload issues.
Abuse that is not intended as abuse (ABA) is still abuse, in the sense that it does what it does, whatver the road to hell was paved with.