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not believed

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It's people liek this that cause the world of multiples to never be seen for what it truly is

(btw, for those of you who don't know me (pretty much everyone) I'm a non-multiple whose SO is a member of a multiple system)

EDIT:

The purpose of me posting this was not to bash one specific person for their belief on how they should treat my SO. This is jsut the first example I've gotten that is in WRITING of the way so many people think that a few pamphlets, a couple documentaries, and maybe a book or two and they're geniuses on the topic. They're the ones who don't see that whether someone is faking the "disorder" or not, it is often a defense mechanism, not something for purely attention. Even if it IS for attention, maybe teh person believes that surrounding themselves with a large number of peopel on the outside will protect them.

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Ok, I know I'm bound to get nailed by someone for this....

In the original poster's defense... it is hard to be on the outside. The husband has had many conversations between Us that didn't mesh and odd facts that didn't match up.

Now, to redeem myself.

I think that his lack of decorum by bringing a post like that in here was just ignorant. His issue is with his SO (and sorry if it's female that posted, you get where I'm going either way), and if the question was "How can I tell if they're faking?' then that should have been the question asked. I think that because of the lack of info provided, that this person was also just looking to start a community arguement with the comment about inside communication.

The person really should just sit down with their SO and talk it out, and ask questions, rather than jump on a community board and throw accusations.

Living in the same city as

chrisau8r and having once moved in much the same social circles I have a little more background on this situation. I hope I'm not treading on Dat's toes here.

The poster is part of a social group known as KAOS (its a university club sortof). It is full of (to put it politely) pseudo-intellectuals who take great pleasure in being extremely pedantic and skeptical of anything which remotely strikes them as "trendy and PC". Many people there take great delight in running down and viciously attacking anyone who does not conform to their particular accepted norms. It would be hard to find a group more riddled with backbitting, infighting and vicious rumour mongering.

Putting it bluntly, its fully of wankers and posers. The poster (and several others) fall into this group. Ignore them, they are trolling mainly for reaction.

"Putting it bluntly, its fully of wankers and posers..."
Gee, thanks, dude. And you guys are the ones complaining about people making assumptions and quick judgement, with lack of proper background information!
*Rolls eyes*

On this one, I do have a reasonable amount of background information :)

So that means it's ok for you to make gross generalisations about KAOS that are just as bad as the generalisations people were making about people with MPD, which, thanks to the media, are at least understandable mistake?
To maybe help clear a few things up.

This has nothing to do with KAOS, other than the fact that a few people involved in it are from KAOS.

Dan did NOT post his entry to start a shit fight. It's his journal. He rants in it. He even posted a warning at the start.

I guess he just doesn't like hearing about Chris' multiplicity, (true or otherwise, I'm going to reserve comment) and having it shoved in his face at every given opportunity. A lot of things are that way. If it gets brought up FAR more than is necessary, and in such a way as it is, it looks like attention seeking. I'm not saying it is. I'm not saying it's reserved for this situation, because I _know_ it's not. I just don't like it when people come across as what seems like bragging about their mental/emotional troubles.

As for "It's people like this that cause the world of multiples to never be seen for what it truly is,"...well, it doesn't make sense. Nothing can be seen for what it is, it's seens for how it's seen. That's WHAT it is. I don't know if that makes any sense but...I think one of you made a comment along the lines of 'it doesn't matter what other people think, it's the system's belief that counts," or something? The same thing goes here. A lot of people don't believe in MPD. Great. That's life. Why is it a problem?

I'll probably think of more to say once I post this, but hey.
*shrugs*

But he does believe in MPD... kinda. He seems to jump the sides of teh fence a couple times.

People ask why it's so difficult for multiples to be seen as multiples isntead of just people seeking attention or schizophrenics, or hypochondriacs, or any of a wide range of things. Maybe that's why so many multiples are trying to put it out there that they are what they are. "bragging" as you put it.

People "brag" about their depression, their tendencies to attempt suicide, their hyperactivity disorders, their anxiety. That doesn't mean they're just trying to get attention. I have to inform everyone I work with not to stress me out too badly because I have anxiety issues. Some of them, I have to remind daily. Doesn't mean I'm bragging abotu it. I wish I didn't have to point it out at all, but for my health, both physical and mental, I have to. Perhaps a multiple has certain thigns that upset them. I'd rather be reminded daily that they are a multiple so I remember to miss certain subjects than to go hard and heavy into one of those subjects and have a breakdown on my hands.

People "brag" about their depression, their tendencies to attempt suicide, their hyperactivity disorders, their anxiety. That doesn't mean they're just trying to get attention. I have to inform everyone I work with not to stress me out too badly because I have anxiety issues.

Shiu:
Some multiples with systems in disorder can use it as a way to get attention and pity-- I've seen it before. Some pretend to be more emotionally fragile than they really are. But I agree with you that not all disordered systems talk about themselves strictly for the purpose of gaining attention and pity. There really are some groups with setups like in Sybil or When Rabbit Howls, though they're comparatively rare; some groups have to keep notebooks because they have little to no in-system communication and can't find a way to achieve it without compromising other aspects of their operating system. If they really are unable to function on all the same levels as a non-multiple, they do have the right to ask for some accomodations.

Anthea:
I guess what really bothers me is that sometime in the future, I'd like to see plurality treated on a level no different than saying you're Jewish or Muslim, or something-- just a statement about your identity, not necessarily interpreted as 'bragging' or 'wanting special attention.' I figure the best way to do it is to prove your functionality after you come out and not blaming shoplifting (or whatever) on others in the system-- but it's hard when wanky intellectual pipsqueaks start howling about "You're FAKING for ATTENTION!" the minute you bring it up.

I think it's because people assume, thanks to lots of media gunk, that if you say you're multiple you're also inferring that you must have been through a horrific life and therefore deserve sympathy. (Can I have sympathy for having to put up with people who watch a bad TV movie and think they know everything about plurality? Wait, don't answer that...)

Violet:
My dear, I have been part of that social group that mascarades as a club since (literally) you were having your nappies changed (possibly since before you were born). I have seen both its highs and lows. I've seen the wonderful support it can give and I've seen it eat its own young.

Yes it has nothing to do with KAOS and everything to do with it since this kind of vicious personal attack has long been a feature of the social group that makes it.

I was gonna stay out of this coz it ain't really my fight anyway, I didn't even read the psot until after Steph posted the link here, but..

I guess he just doesn't like hearing about Chris' multiplicity, (true or otherwise, I'm going to reserve comment) and having it shoved in his face at every given opportunity.

considering I been to ONE kaos party in the last two months, I never go to university anymore, all of us combined only ever had mabye four convos with him ever, and he ain't even friended on my journal, how is it being shoved in his face? HE chooses to read my journal. We talk about it on our journal in the same way people talk about being male, or having a family. What the f-ck you talking about??

Dat

Hey, just my take on things. If you don't like being seen that way, maybe you should think about how you come across. *shrug*
I don't know what happened to bring it up now, but you used to be fairly prominent at kaos things.

Remember that time you got 'hypothermia' at the matrix party when you were running about with basically nothing on in the middle of winter. Same shit different pile.

Ignoring the rest of the issue, which I really have no comment on, I really think you are being overly harsh here. Dan does not speak for KAOS, which is a huge, sprawling social group which is really more like a large number of smaller groups linked in odd ways. In my experience, anyway. Which is key here. I really do think you are judging KAOS entirely on your own experience, which is not, I believe, current. Just because it's the same club does not mean it's the same people. Even the few years I've been around the people have changed significantly, and with the people attitudes and norms have changed also.

Yes, some of the treatment Chris has recieved is harsh, but do you really think that in any other social group it would have taken this long to occur? In it's own way, KAOS is also a safe harbour. As well as "pseudo-intellectuals" it is also full of some quite broad-minded and sympathetic people. I would like to think I fall more in that category.

Also for the record, Kaos tends to attract people who have been wounded in one way or another, something to do with being a sort of geek society. And many of those people have mental illnesses of one type or another. I think people tend to get a little too used to it, and lose their sympathy, because this is the fourth time this week they have had to deal with someone's 'issues'.
I should know. I've had my own share of 'issues' to deal with. And I've had to deal with some people's scepticism, and some people's "Oh, God, not this again". I got a reputation for crazy, which I will probably never shake off.
But mostly I got support, and sympathy and a lot of help. The kind of help that goes beyond anything anyone could reasonably be expected to provide.

Yeah, Cat, most of that's pretty much what I was thinking.
'cept I don't think you're crazy. You're too nice to be crazy! :)

(deleted comment)

Bitter :) Nah, older, wiser. My memories of KAOS are often mixed, some of the best people in my life come from there (GOO, In, H&L, E, Maddog, Conrod, P&V and many others), people who have literally saved my life. But I've also watched as it grew and it started to eat its own young.

There was a group exactly like this at our university. Some were members of the campus radio station and we knew them very well for several years. They were, or claimed to be, members of the satirical Church of SubGenius. The description given by

hairymonster exactly fit them. If you called them on anything, the response was "Fuck'em if they can't take a joke", a SubGenius motto. "I can say anything I want, it's just words." "We're just having fun. You've got no sense of humor." Etc. It's all very familiar. If

hairymonster says he knows these people and is not merely guessing, I have no reason not to trust his assessment of them.

I'm sorry. I maintain that this social group is a lot bigger than that. I know them also, and I believe that his opinion is a) a little outdated and b) based on too small a statistical sample.

Of course, I'm not a member of the community here, and you can take my opinion however you want.

Kaos really isn't that much like the group you describe, it just tends to be filled with quite a few broken people. And the original poster of this diatribe, by the way, has been recieving a reasonable amount of social flak as a result of his decision to launch that particular personal attack.

A lot more people are aware of this issue in the individual in question, and despite, or perhaps because, they have no knowledge of MPD/DID/Multiplicity they have chosen to reserve judgement. I still maintain that in most social groups consisting of younger adults (17-25ish, primarily) you wouldn't find nearly so many people prepared to just accept the situation and the individual, whether or not they believed in the condition/state/whatever you want to call it.

To blame an entire social group (consisting of upwards of 150 people) on the comments of one individual, is, in my opinion simply unfair.

I have heard repeatedly here, and in the original post, people saying things like "uneducated" and "media-based opinions". Considering that multiplicity or DID/MPD doesn't appear to be particularly common, it's hardly surprising people don't know about it.

I would like to thank you all, because by reading here I have gotten an interesting perspective on all of your opinions on the issue, and I am going to go and do some more research. To be honest, I can't guarantee it will make me a non-sceptic, but I am prepared to go and look.

I've been a member of Kaos for over five years, I've never once said "Fuck them if they can't take a joke" or anything else like that. My first reaction to this situation was to try and get everyone's point of view. I have had four conversations with individuals in the last few days, all members of this social group, which have been philosophical in nature and have primarily been focused on the "we just don't know enough" aspect.

Please don't tell me my social group is uncaring and cruel, based on your own experiences. I don't believe that's true.

Just a (rather long, sorry) dissenting opinion.

AS I put into my edit on the original post on this community, (and I am in fact female) my purpose was not to start a fight. And accusing me of such is generalizing me into a group of people who like to just start fights. If I wanted to start a fight, I would've fought him myself.

I did not accuse him of anything. It IS stuff liek that being said that when multiples finally start to get respect, dumps them back a dozen or so steps.

As for whether or not there's faking, I honestly don't give a damn. And I HAVE sat down with my SO and talked about this stuff.

I didn't mean for this to be the opinion of one person against the world: I've heard this "multiples are faking it" and "multiples don't actually exist" argument a lot in the last few years alone. Even if he IS specifically targetting one person, I'm not.

I can see your frustration.

But there are people who fake multiplicity. There are also people who fake pregnancies to get their boyfriends to do something for them. This doesn't make people stop /actually/ getting pregnant. :-)

Shandra

...I was referring to Uziel, not you.

I think you have misunderstood.

bacskocky is

chrisau8r's SO.

uzielnz is the one who has said she/they are faking, and did not say it here, but rather on his own journal.

bacskocky posted the link to his post in an effort to gather support from this community for

chrisau8r.

I didn't post it on this community, I didn't ever realize this community existed until it was cross posted here by someone else.

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