multiplicity_archives | Anyone want to help this writer out?

*headbash*

People from here are saying stuff like "omg most multiples hate that" etc etc.

Man, the guy isn't asking for info about multiples. He wants to know about DID. Educating a person about multiplicity is one thing, perhaps as an addendum, but they are asking about DID, soooo...

Er....?

That's not the impression I was getting from the post.

The original poster was sayhing that their character has multiple personalities for a book they're either writing or planning to write. Said poster *IS* asking for information on multiple personalities.

IMO, "Dissociative Identity Disorder" is a "label" made up by those who do not believe in the existence of "Multiple Personalities" The words individually may have meaning on their own, but put together in the 'label', and it pretty much appears to mean that the person who has been diagnosed with it (instead of Multiple Personality Disorder, which is clear cut in what it is, from what I see) is making it up, even if it is only on a subconscious level.

And I'm not so sure the character that the person in the referenced post has a "disorder" anyway. It may look disordered to the author doing the writing, but I'll bet that to the character, there is no disorder apparent. *wry*

C.

DID happens. It's different from what a lot of people here see as being 'multiple'.

Point still stands that there's no need to get on people's cases, 'correcting' them, when they post DID and MPD links. Because it's all valid.

IMO = In My Opinion.

I wasn't correcting anyone about DID/MPD.

I just do not believe they are the same disorder.

As for the other thing... the poster on the NaNoWriMo community was asking about Multiple Personalities. DID was not even asked about.

but then I'm sorry for saying anything at this point.

Forget I said anything and I can delete my stupid comment if you prefer.

Since I seem to be going around offending people with my own stupid opinion.

C.

I don't think they're the same either :P

This whole "stupid" thing is... well, stupid, you know. If you're offending people, who cares so long as you're only being rational and reasonabley polite. Offend away. It's their fault, not yours.

Anyway.. the only point I was trying to get across to you was that from what I could see about the author's questions in regards to that one character, they were talking about Multiple Personalities.... not DID and not really MPD either... since the character didn't REALLY seem to have a 'problem'.

C.

And my point is that DID and MPD links, yes even ones to books and such that many multiples do not like or think are hogwash, are not invalid.

I'm one to talk, but it seems to me like, well, *outside of this community* (where it's not ok unless you tread on eggshells) it's perfectly ok to come off as even quite aggressive, as if someone is Bad or Ignorant for posting those links.

I'm always one for correcting people gently, but usually only when they say that they believe the common streotypes that ONLY people who have been abused can be multiple, etc.

I think it makes us as a community come across as moody know it alls.

From your initial comment: Man, the guy isn't asking for info about multiples. He wants to know about DID.

From the

nanowrimo poster: he suffers from multiple personality disorder.

Did i mention that as a heterosexual, he is a drag queen? OH-KAY!

Now my big question is this. Can someone with multiple personalities keep secrets from himself?

IE, can personality A have secrets from Personality B and vise versa?

EDIT: Also, (hypothetically) is it possible for one personality to have memories of something that didn't happen? Could personality A have a memory of something that did(n't) happen while personality B has control of the body?

They were asking about Multiple Personalities. you said they were asking about DID.

Not the same thing.

That's the only thing I was trying to say.

C.

(deleted comment)

Any proposal by a singlet for a book about multiplicity is a train wreck waiting to happen.

Set this House in Order wasn't a total train wreck, but yeah. :)

If they didn't have their act together, that is part of why they're asking. At least that's what it looks like to me.

MPD and/or DID are all individual. And each person's experience is their own and unique.

Of course, you don't have to believe anything I have to say.

Apparently I haven't the slightest clue what I'm talking about anyway.

(deleted comment)

There is nothing in NaNo that says that the person must *finish* the work in 50,000 words. 50,000 words is just a 'milestone', but the story could go on for much more than that.

Consider the month time limit with the wordcount as a 'dare'... as in 'I dare you to...'

I've participated in it 3 years running, and this year will be #4.

As for the research, is there anything written anywhere that says that an author must do *ALL* of their research *PRIOR* to starting on a writing project?

By the way, I did not intend a guilt trip. Stupid and 'not knowing anything' was how I was feeling at the time. Thank you for completely invalidating my feelings from that point in time.

As for the 'writer and multiple' thing... guess what? you're dealing with one as well.

And as a writer, you know the power of words right? your words came across to me as hurtful and insulting to someone you knew nothing about, both myself and the poster at

nanowrimo...

C.

Watch it.

By the way, I wasn't attacking you.

I was just saying that likely the reason why the person in question was asking was to help in their research.

And as for unresearched and stupid... you just said that the time limit will "make it unsuccessful". Not only that, it is YOU who said that it really sounds like s/he doesn't have his/her shit together for her plot.

Hi, insulting anyone?

C.

I'd give'em the links to the usual suspects, ya know..

http://www.karitas.net/blackbirds/layman (especially this one)
http://www.dreamshore.net/amorpha/faq.html
http://www.dreamshore.net/amorpha/myths.html
http://kasiya.homestead.com/faq.html
http://www.astraeasweb.net/faq.shtml

And let it go at that. Because most of them will look at the fact that multiplicity turns out to be a bunch of ordinary people living together like roommates and so forth, and go "But nobody would believe it if I wrote it that way, so I'm just going to write it the way I was going to RAZOR CUT BLOOD ARTERY HITCHCOCK MURDER PSYCHO HOMICIDE kthxbye"

Personally? i'm not sure they're writing a book about multiplicity.

From the sound of things, it's *fiction*. it may not be fiction to those who actually live with it, but then one does not have to be a serial killer or a vampire in order to write a fictional novel about it.

Then again... what the hell do I know?

I shut up now.

And maybe continue to remind myself why I shouldn't bother opening my stupid mouth to begin with.

C.

You have every right to speak here as much as anyone else.

Point taken about it being fiction. The only reason we get impatient with fiction with multiple characters in is that it tends to follow a stereotype based on Sybil, which everybody thinks is fact but is actually fiction. Or it goes down the "Raising Cain" route. People read or watch that stuff and come away with the idea that that's what it's really like -- all the "how do I know you don't have a serial killer in there" stuff.

Still and all, we've known people who believed they had no right to, say, write a story with a male lead character because they were female themselves, and that just gets ridiculous. The guy is trying to ask questions about what it's really like, which is what a good writer should do if he hasn't got firsthand experience, and we should be more patient, really.

From the little blurb the person on the NaNo comm was able to give, the character in question is *not* a serial killer, but someone who, like the rest of us here, is living a normal-for-them life... but the author is a little confused. *wry*

That's all I was really saying.

As for the 'stupid and have no right to say anything'... the response from the initial commenter here is what made me feel like that...

I'm feeling better now, but not all that much...

C.

ooh yay! we've been mentioned!! ^_^

kasia

While I can understand people's frustration at people who ask for information and then go on to disregard some or all of it so that they can write about what they were originally planning on anyway, I'm a little bothered by the vast generalizations that people are making here. Just because some people are stupid and won't step out of their little boxes and really LISTEN doesn't mean that no one who isn't multiple will ever listen. If that were true, then why bother leaving this community's membership open to interested singletons? Why bother with even considering coming out? Why bother with something like Pavillion and writing in to networks to attempt to correct the misinformation and remind people that they're writing about real people who deserve respect? If any attempt to educate outsiders is automatically a train wreck in the making, why should anyone try?

I'm not multiple and while I'm not planning or writing a book or anything, I'd like to think that if for some reason I ever did, that I'd be open to feedback in order to not get it horribly painfully wrong. I can never understand in the way that someone with firsthand experience can, but I'd like to believe that I'm capable of at least understanding a little. I'd like to think that I'm not doing something wrong or impolite when the subject comes up for some reason or another and I tell a friend "no, it's possible to be multiple and not crazy" and explain a little and point them in the direction of Astraea's or the Layman's Guide or similar sites. I cannot and will not speak FOR you but I'd like to think that I can at least speak WITH you. I'd like to think that I'm not unwelcome in this community.

I apologise; I should not have said "singlets". What we are complaining about is the objectification of multiplicity. The majority of people of whom Elaq speaks tended to conceive of a multiple character as a sort of abstract thing rather than a group of persons. They'd come up with a typical "multiple personality" plot, fall in love with same, and then realise "oh, I should probably question some actual multiples first". That is when we would hear from them.

That they then proceeded to pay absolutely no attention to what we told them is irritating to us personally, as a kind of insult, but mostly the fact that we'd taken a great deal of time and energy explaining things -- some of them would write us fifteen or twenty emails asking a lot of very well-conceived questions, and we'd respond happily and at length, only to receive a final email very much along the lines of what Elaq describes.

The idea that these authors thought no one would believe a multiple group could live as a cooperative group is what disturbed us the most.

Yeah... IMO, the problems come in when someone assumes they know exactly what a particular way of life is like even if they don't live it themselves, based on having read one book or something. This applies if you're writing for someone of a different nationality, different culture, different religion, someone who's gay, autistic, multiple, etc-- you have to read what people say about themselves and their real lives, rather than assuming that what you see on TV is accurate and enough to go by.

But if you're too harsh on yourself, preventing yourself from writing about characters you feel are too different from you because you're afraid you'll "offend someone" (as people in this system have done before), then, well... I think that silencing yourself from creating, even if done in the name of respect, can be more harmful than good. Pass it around when you're done-- show it to a proofreader who is more like your character, and see if they feel you're playing to inaccurate stereotypes. Even if they do, that doesn't mean your entire work is unredeemable-- if you've done your research properly, it'll probably just be details you get asked to tweak, not the entire plot.

I'm not even going to dignify that comment in the thread about "just make it up" with a response.

That they then proceeded to pay absolutely no attention to what we told them is irritating to us personally, as a kind of insult, but mostly the fact that we'd taken a great deal of time and energy explaining things -- some of them would write us fifteen or twenty emails asking a lot of very well-conceived questions, and we'd respond happily and at length, only to receive a final email very much along the lines of what Elaq describes.

The best (?) one, IMO, was the guy who tried to base the villain in his play on you. After you'd spent all that time answering his questions in email.

*does a very creditible Evil Laugh(tm), showing off his "DAMN I'M GOOD" t-shirt*

But no chatelaine.

No chatelaine. I'm not that insecure.

What the hell? I typed a post in response to this, I previewed it, it seemed to send, and I signed off... and my post is not here. Did it just get eaten by an LJ glitch and not go through or something? I've never had that happen before.

Anyway, what my ex-post fundamentally said, only more elaborately and eloquently because I wasn't as busy when I wrote it as I am at the moment was:
Thank you for the clarifications, and I'm sorry if I overreacted or was too literal. I can understand and sympathize with your frustration and wish there was some way to keep stuff like that from happening. Some people really need a visit upside the head with a clue-by-four, I guess. Also, good points about the double-sidedness the "write what you know" rule.

Sorry for doing a rush job for this post, but I felt as if your posts warranted a response and I didn't want anyone to feel as if I was ignoring them.

Anyone want to help this writer out?

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