(no subject)

[bacskocky.livejournal.com]

It's people liek this that cause the world of multiples to never be seen for what it truly is

(btw, for those of you who don't know me (pretty much everyone) I'm a non-multiple whose SO is a member of a multiple system)

EDIT:

The purpose of me posting this was not to bash one specific person for their belief on how they should treat my SO. This is jsut the first example I've gotten that is in WRITING of the way so many people think that a few pamphlets, a couple documentaries, and maybe a book or two and they're geniuses on the topic. They're the ones who don't see that whether someone is faking the "disorder" or not, it is often a defense mechanism, not something for purely attention. Even if it IS for attention, maybe teh person believes that surrounding themselves with a large number of peopel on the outside will protect them.

Comments

[duathir.livejournal.com]

This may be considered an unpopular view, but obnoxious and ignorant as he may be, perhaps uzielnz has a point. The opinions of people like him are indeed irrelevant, and have little bearing on the way multiples are generally seen - it is the conduct of multiples that makes the difference.

Many people who are themselves multiple find "lilspeak" irritating as well as inauthentic. Physical children do not speak or write that way, and someone who is capable of posting to Livejournal is also capable of using the spell-check function.

It is one's own business what one writes in one's own journal, and who one allows to read it. However, to post in "lilspeak" in a public journal, to let the ownership of the journal be known to realtime acquaintances, and to expect or demand acceptance of multiplicity from those acquaintances, is to invite attack, or at least serious skepticism. Therefore one ought not to be surprised when that is what one receives.

Mutiplicity is not socially acceptable. Whether this is "fair" or not is beside the point. The fact is that telling people that one shares one's body with others is most likely to cause them to assume that one is either mentally ill or lying. Therefore, unless they have compelling reasons not to make those assumptions, such as long-term intimate friendship or being multiple themselves, it is folly to tell them.

The psychiatric establishment classes DID as a mental disorder, and denies the possibility of any other sort of multiplicity. The fact that the psychiatric establishment is an instrument of repressive social control with a long history of perpetrating atrocities against the innocent, and whose theories of mental illness have no scientific basis, does not matter. The same statement could have been made about the Inquisition, but doing so would not have saved anyone from the rack and the stake.

Most people believe whatever they are told by those in power, and will not believe anything to the contrary unless they have both a logical and an emotional reason to do so. Ignorant casual acquaintances have neither. That is just the way things are.

[pythia.livejournal.com]

"The psychiatric establishment classes DID as a mental disorder, and denies the possibility of any other sort of multiplicity."
Actually, no, it doesn't deny the possibility at all. It may be skeptical about the exsitence of such a condition, but I think saying that they deny any possibility is being just a little extreme.

"The fact that the psychiatric establishment is an instrument of repressive social control with a long history of perpetrating atrocities against the innocent..."
Uh. Conspiracy theorist? Over the top, for sure.

[duathir.livejournal.com]

Indeed? I suggest you read this review (http://reason.com/0205/cr.bd.ill.shtml) of the book Mad in America: Bad Science, Bad Medicine, and the Enduring Mistreatment of the Mentally Ill (http://www.madinamerica.com/) by Robert Whitaker.

Do you not agree that the practices described are atrocities? There is certainly no doubt that they have been, and still are, perpetrated against hundreds of thousands of people.

Other books:

Bedlam: Greed, Profiteering, and Fraud in a Mental Health System Gone Crazy (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312104219/002-6386061-5552016?v=glance) by Joe Sharkey

Toxic Psychiatry (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312113668/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_2/002-6386061-5552016) by Peter Breggin, MD

The Manufacture of Madness (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0815604610/ref=cm_custrec_gl_acc/002-6386061-5552016?v=glance&s=books) by Thomas Szasz, MD

Other references:

Psychiatric drugs (http://www.breggin.com/)

Restraints (http://www.copaa.net/newstand/day1.html)

Electroshock (http://www.23nlpeople.com/ECT.htm)

Lobotomy (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=lobotomy+ice-pick&btnG=Search)

MKULTRA (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=MKULTRA&btnG=Search)

[shandra.livejournal.com]

Uh, sadly, no. While there are a lot of good aspects to psychiatry there is a long and well-documented history of oppression as well.

Shandra

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

The problem is that the way these kids type-- the kind duathir meant, anyway, not in every system-- is really artificial. Kids don't write 'dem' or 'dat' even when they have a speech impediment. And a five-year-old doesn't say "I bes 5." We have things we've written from when we were 6 or 7, and of course there were some misspellings, but not in every single word. We read a lot, so we learned how to spell some words from our books. When an 11-year-old in someone's system starts typing in little speak, I think it's gone too far.

[sethrenn.livejournal.com]

To me it comes off more like an adult trying to mimic what they believe a child would sound like, but that's just me.

It's not just you. I think that -is- what it is, and that's why the children in our group, by and large, refuse to use it.

[saturniakitty.livejournal.com]

*nods* I completely agree. I kept a journal from when I was 6 as an assignment in school, and although the spelling was (extremely) atrocious, the grammar and such was mostly correct, though I wasn't that good at complex sentences. (Actually I made a journal to type it all up in as a record for myself: saturn_no_ouji, the earliest entry was from January 4th, 1993 (http://www.livejournal.com/users/saturn_no_ouji/1993/01/04/), four days before my 7th birthday.) I think that "little speak" is not only artificial but also pretty annoying. (Now that I look at it, I had pretty bizarre spelling. I'd misspell almost everything but then random "big" words I would spell correct, like "tomorrow", "birthday", "weather", etc. Hmmmm.)

[whispersong.livejournal.com]

The small ones here use this "lilspeak" as its been termed in this thread. Why? I suspect b/c it allows them to converse with other littles from other systems they interact with daily & feel part of a peer group in a way that they cannot feel as biokids would feel. IE: they're not in childrens bodys, they can't show it in many ways that they arechildren. Its harmless anyway & although I know some find it annoying *I did at first shrugs but I acclimatized* is it any worse than say rappers using the speech & slang they use when talking to one another?

I do understand what squng & saturnikitty & duathir are getting at here. But I put this issue in the same category as I put any group of ppl who communicate with their own different set of spellings/pronunciations/grammatical structure, which is to say I see it as just another form of communication for that group. I don't see it as wrong or really in any way different than if they used sign language or street slang that is common to certain parts of our communities.

Tatiana

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

Kír (duathir) isn't 'up' right now, but says he wasn't discounting the validity of anyone's system because of how they write - just pointing out that writing in lilspeak in a public journal is likely to cause many people to discount it.

I find lilspeak fairly irritating too, but no worse than l337 or chtspk. People who write in those jargons also do it for the sake of group-identity - not because they can't write standard English - and when they do it in public, they often get mocked for it. Most of them don't seem to care, though. People who are prone to getting their feelings hurt when they're mocked by no-life trolls on Livejournal do have the option of friends-locking their posts.

I have one very old and dear friend who went through a "lilspeak phase" for a while, where she'd call me up and blither away in the most appalling, barely-comprehensible fake babytalk. I don't believe she's really multiple, because over the years I've seen her go through any number of other "phases" involving improbable claims (demons in her apartment, the Mafia after her, etcetera).

I don't think she's actually delusional, either; I think she just has a habit of making wild shit up because she doesn't believe she can hold peoples' interest any other way. Kír has no patience with her at all; he thinks she's an untrustworthy idiot, and has always been adamant that she is not to ever know about him and Crist-Erui, but I like her a lot; she is fun, talented and good-hearted, even though totally unreliable. I don't believe anything she tells me, but I don't say so; I just change the subject when she gets off on one of her wild stories.

Maybe she really is multiple. I doubt it, but it's possible, and certainly there's no way to prove she's not. If I can't be sure after 27 years of realtime friendship, there's no way I can be sure about people online whom I've never even met.

LOL, Kír says that even if she is really multiple, he still thinks she's an idiot. Well, maybe she is, or at least acts like one a lot of the time, but she's my friend nonetheless. I don't encourage her baby-talk thing, though, and if someone who hadn't been my friend for years and years started doing it, I'd most likely back off from them.

People who aren't multiple themselves are liable to back off from it a lot quicker, and they're also less likely to be inhibited about saying what they think of it. uzielnz is a lout, but if chrisau8r has been going around talking lilspeak to her realtime cronies and telling them all about her multiplicity, maybe he does have a valid point, because that sort of thing can get old really fast.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

"is it any worse than say rappers using the speech & slang they use when talking to one another?"

Nope, it's no worse. As you say, it's totally harmless, and a lot of groups have their own jargons. But rappers who use rap-slang when talking to non-rappers get made fun of too, especially if they're white-bread suburban kids who've never seen a real ghetto in their lives.

I hang out with a bunch of people who speak Sindarin Elvish, and we get made fun of about that sometimes. I know one guy who speaks Nadsat (the invented teenage slang from A Clockwork Orange in a fake-Liverpudlian accent, and I'm sure he has no clue how silly he sounds, but... whatever. If you want to hear a REALLY irritating jargon, spend some time with hardcore James Joyce fans - they'll make you wish you were back with the babytalkers.

There's always going to be people who enjoy ridiculing others for any reason they can find. It's not nice, often it's downright nasty, but what are you going to do about it? There isn't any way to stop them. The only real options are to quit doing whatever they're mocking you for when you're around them (or avoid them, friends-lock your journal, block them from posting to it), or else decide not to care about the opinions of assholes, and just ignore anything they say.

[whispersong.livejournal.com]

i agree with you. i also never meant to imply anyone was discounting others systems or people. my apologies for that bit of misconstrued information.

heh james joyce huh? i'll pass tyvm & continue speaking to the littles . at least with them i know they have reasons i can understand as to why they talk the way they do.

{J}tatiana

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

*rueful nod* Good decision. I went to a Joycean Christmas party one time, and nearly gnawed my own leg off. Kír says he thought the Joyceans were more bearable than people at science-fiction conventions, but I dunno... I think it may have just been that the Joyceans were mostly sober. Drunken Joyceans would be truly frightening.

However annoying it may be

[spookshow-girl.livejournal.com]

Lilspeak is the perogative of the person, little or not, making the post. With the choice however, comes a risk, and making oneself aware of the possible responses should be part of the risk asessment process.

However, to find the silver lining, it is an opportunity to help teach the littles an important skill, which is concientious decision making.

--Me/Us

Re: However annoying it may be

[whispersong.livejournal.com]

However, to find the silver lining, it is an opportunity to help teach the littles an important skill, which is concientious decision making.

ty for that statement, i hadn't thought of that. :) an excellent idea. all of our lj's are friends only. if people wish to try to mock any of us on here, let them. just means i'll have to step forward perhaps & help them defend themselves but i find it highly unlikely that will ever be necessary as they only post to their own lj's usually.

{J}tatiana