[identity profile] thissharedspace.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] multiplicity_archives
Hello! We've posted here before under Mouse's journal [livejournal.com profile] mousehood, but now we've made an official system journal.

Anywho, time for a seamless segue into asking for advice. The host of our system, Mouse, is a transsexual male. He identified as such many years before any of the other current active system members came along. He has the typical trans issues and desires, like 'passing.' He wants desperately for other people to see him as male, and it makes him squirm to think of others seeing him as his wrong birth sex. Very common. So he works hard at it, he binds his chest and all that, he wears clothes to hide the femininity of his body, he tries to lower his voice, he would never be caught dead holding a purse, etc. Here's where the problem is: some of us don't like it. Some of us want to express our femininity. I, for one, want a purse. And, you know, breasts would be nice. Sometimes, you know? To be able to wear the kind of girly crap I love so much? To carry around dolls in a backpack, even (and that's not even for me, that's for him-- Mouse loves dolls).

I guess we're looking for other people going through similar problems. And some advice, of course. See, Mouse has no outside obligations at present, but come Autumn, he'll be back in college, and the 'trans bi guy with solid principles' as he says, is enough of a freak-- he doesn't want to be openly multiple. I can't say I'm thrilled by the idea, either, but if it would get me a chance to express myself...

Anyway. Comments? Thank you.

-Penny

Date: 2008-05-16 11:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inmonopolus.livejournal.com
How often and in what circumstances do both of you take the front? Ideally on his time he should be allowed to pass, and on yours, you should be allowed to wear more feminine clothes, but I realise this isn't always feasible or even convenient.

Theo, this system's core, is physically female but often wishes to pass, and typically settles for an androgynous look - no makeup, jewelry or defining female clothes, but blue jeans and turtleneck sweaters.

It all depends on your individual needs, and how well you can both compromise. Good luck, either way.

Date: 2008-05-17 01:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pengke.livejournal.com
Try throwing away the gender roles and being comfortable wearing girly stuff as a boy. Wear the pretty dress with your chest bound and your voice lowered to the register you prefer.

Date: 2008-05-17 01:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] krystale.livejournal.com
We can't help with much other than the fact that we went openly multiple at college. We decided we didn't give pucky about what some strangers thought of us. If you act like it's no big deal the people worth having around won't think it is either. Granted we weird everyone out, but that's their issue, not ours.

Date: 2008-05-17 01:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tej-agni.livejournal.com
even though there are alot of male fronters in our group none of them have tried to do anything to the body much. other than not wearing lipstick or maybe choosing whatever color they'd prefer to wear. **shrugs** but not all the females want to wear makeup either. this body's just a costume anyway. even though I'm female like it is doesn't mean I'm completely comfortable with this thing either. it's not how my own body looks. you know? I wear it for awhile and that's it. it's just something I'm used to putting up with and it doesn't bother me much anymore. it's like driving in an uncomfortable car for awhile.

but yeah maybe you guys can take turns? I don't know really because it does sound frustrating. I rambled ^^;;
LeAnne

Date: 2008-05-17 01:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] linnai.livejournal.com
We found our OK balance as letting people identify the body and birth names as "Just that weird kid". We let people see what they wanted - someone who was where and really fashionably challenged sometimes... because we knew what was going on.

Date: 2008-05-17 02:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
We understand such problems.

Trying to balance the issues of transpecies and transgender members of our system provides mucho headaches. That issue remains unsolved, but one suggestion would be for Mouse to slowly get adjusted, at his own pace, but co-operating with you.

Date: 2008-05-17 02:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Gah! Forgot to sign...

"Rocky" Grimm.

Date: 2008-05-17 04:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frustration1123.livejournal.com
Not ideal, but you could wear your more feminine outfits when alone in the house/apartment. That way you won't "out" yourselves but you still get to have your own time wearing and doing what you want.

Date: 2008-05-17 10:43 am (UTC)
pthalo: a photo of Jelena Tomašević in autumn colours (Default)
From: [personal profile] pthalo
In our system, if the girls want to be girly, they can. In fact, Hannah sometimes takes a day in the body for herself by wearing a skirt and makeup, knowing that I'm not going to want to touch the body with a ten foot pole. When I'm in the body, I do my best to pass as a male. I don't identify as trans, just as male. But the body's female, so make of that what you will. I bind the chest and I wear male clothes and I use a stand-to-pee device and all that jazz. And I use the masculine forms when I speak Serbian. (In Serbian you can't even say "I'm tired" or "I went to the store" without announcing that you're male or female.)

Date: 2008-05-17 01:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tej-agni.livejournal.com
Our group doesn't seem to have gender problems. What some do have difficulties with is the body not matching their appearance. That doesn't always have to do with gender. My own body definitely doesn't match this one I share. Even though I am female like the body. Kalli

Date: 2008-05-17 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chainsaw-hime.livejournal.com
(MtF multiple here)

My system seems to be rather fortunate that there aren't any male-identified people in it, though I admit I had at one time been afraid that there might have been some aspect that was hibernating and would take issue with what we've done to this body. Ironically, I've been able to express my masculinity better as a woman than any of us ever could when we were presenting as male. Unfortunately, guys don't seem to have that ease with femininity, leading to being a bit more... defensive on the topic. It could just be that he's overcompensating during the stage he's at. Out of curiosity, how far along is your body in this? I wasn't really able to comfortably bring my butch out until I'd been full-time for a year or so.

Date: 2008-05-17 08:54 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-05-17 10:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] utuku.livejournal.com
I was at a trans meeting a few months ago; there was one guy who knew someone named Mouse, oddly enough. Mouse would sometimes be femmed up, and sometimes be pretty masculine, but whatever Mouse was dressed as were the pronouns which got used. I don't know if that helps or not.

Date: 2008-06-11 10:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] distant-bard.livejournal.com
I hope this helps. I haven't yet officially joined the group, as we're not all comfortable with admitting to multiplicity. Anyway, we have some gender issues in our system, as well. If you can, isolate some key things that contribute to each person's comfort. For Vanessa (one of our own), long hair is of great comfort. I, Robert, could do without it but I prefer to keep my facial hair (by the way, this is a male body). Vanessa would prefer to shave it off, and sometimes we do. Compromise is the key, and learning to overlook established gender roles. I know it's tough. Best of luck.

Date: 2008-08-23 01:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] perfect-non.livejournal.com
This isn't multiple linked, but similar. I am MtF and so prefer my hair long with no facial hair. My boyfriend prefers the facial hair though, so I compromise by allowing chin scruff to grow, but keeping the rest of my face clean shaven.

Perhaps just a little bit of something can help? Just add a little "girly" bit by bit until there's a line where Mouse says "That's a bit far, please."

Gendar/sexuality stuff.

Date: 2008-08-19 04:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brandon2431.livejournal.com
Now *this*, we're interested in.
Because we don't know how in the hell to deal with it either!

We're in a female body, spent our life(s) as female, would like to stay physically female.
Trouble is, we've got two little girls in here (well okay, one young and one little), who want to express their femininity. (Hope I spelled that right.) Lots of women in here also, but they don't come out front.
Six guys that *do* come out front, one of them is gay, I think we have four bis and two straights.
(Yeah, I'm a little confused at this point.)

Date: 2008-09-12 03:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amanda7000.livejournal.com
It's complicated because most people think in an either/or way; you are either "female" or you are "male." I think that gender is on a continuum much like dissociation is....there are many males with female characteristics and females with male characteristics...but most people look at only the physical traits when describing gender. For someone to act and/or dress contrary to how they "should" according to their physical gender really seems to set some people off. I haven't been in a situation that makes me afraid yet, but I limit when & where I interact with this physical world so I don't get myself into any dangerous situations.

I think it's important that every internal family member get his or her time to be "out". Unfortunately a lot of that has to occur in private places because people don't understand multiplicity and they see an opposite gender alter as "crossdressing" and furthermore they see "crossdressing" as unrighteous behavior. So when you take the risk to be "out" you can count on it being anxiety producing at times due to judgements from the outside world & often even the other parts.

/Angel/

Date: 2008-12-05 08:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] very-small-box.livejournal.com
Hello, hello.
I'd like to say that I've had a similar problem with my body...it's male.
And I'm a girl. Baki won't let me change the body, and even if I could I still wouldn't be very happy because it still wouldn't feel like my body; I'm shorter. So I've sort of been trying my best to accept my body the way it is. It's not like it's a bad body. It's young, healthy and functions okay. So I've made some progress in accepting it for what it is. It's usually okay, as long as I have friends that know I exist, accept that I'm female and treat me as such.
Plus I can always be myself in my mind, because I know what I look like.
Also, I would suggest finding some safe places away from your campus and your friends where you can dress and act however any of you wish. So basically I'm seconding Amanda's suggestion.
Also, what is it with the name "Mouse?" There's a multiplicitous character in a book titled "set this house in order", and mouse is her nickname. Good book by the way, we've found it rather helpful.

*Angel*

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